Lake Forest Incident

[trainman8119]

Metra released film taken from the camera in the engineers cab of the accident in Lake Forest the past Saturday. Channel 2 seems to be the only station to take the bait on this. Part of the reason for adding cameras is to demonstrate the foolishness some people have and the chances they take. I am a little surprised they allowed a fatal to be shown, but if anyone is interested here is the link to CBS2. It will show you just how helpless you can feel when people make bad decisions.

[Guest]

Metra released film taken from the camera in the engineers cab of the accident in Lake Forest the past Saturday. Channel 2 seems to be the only station to take the bait on this. Part of the reason for adding cameras is to demonstrate the foolishness some people have and the chances they take. I am a little surprised they allowed a fatal to be shown, but if anyone is interested here is the link to CBS2. It will show you just how helpless you can feel when people make bad decisions.

This may sound cruel but this happens out of plain stupidity!! There is no rationale or reason for someone to make a dumb, stupid decision to play with their life and the lives of others in trying to beat a freight or passenger train, whether in their car or trying to run across tracks. I see it often at Jefferson Park or the Gladstone Pk stops on the NW line. It just angers me that no matter how many times this happens, people just dont get it! What is wrong with this, in a hurry, me first society now? And then we have to hear about it on the news over and over. Just like the woman a couple years ago who made the stupid decision to try and speed through the South Shore railroad parking lot trying to beat and EB freight train in Hammond, and then gets nailed by the WB train she obviously didnt see coming, costing the lives of two of her kids. Or that infamous Burlington/Metra incident where the lady runs across the tracks and gets nailed by the WB Express to Aurora. People need to stop being in such a hurry, chill out and let that train go by! Plain and simple!

[rotjohns]

This may sound cruel but this happens out of plain stupidity!! There is no rationale or reason for someone to make a dumb, stupid decision to play with their life and the lives of others in trying to beat a freight or passenger train, whether in their car or trying to run across tracks. I see it often at Jefferson Park or the Gladstone Pk stops on the NW line. It just angers me that no matter how many times this happens, people just dont get it! What is wrong with this, in a hurry, me first society now? And then we have to hear about it on the news over and over. Just like the woman a couple years ago who made the stupid decision to try and speed through the South Shore railroad parking lot trying to beat and EB freight train in Hammond, and then gets nailed by the WB train she obviously didnt see coming, costing the lives of two of her kids. Or that infamous Burlington/Metra incident where the lady runs across the tracks and gets nailed by the WB Express to Aurora. People need to stop being in such a hurry, chill out and let that train go by! Plain and simple!

Channel 2 in the link stated that they are thinking about fines for anyone that crosses those tracks, whether it be by foot or car. It's not enforced enough by Metra and I rarely see local cops monitoring the train stations so maybe it's high time for them to start. $250? Not enough. Not when your life is at stake. Raise it to $500. Then people will think twice. Put undercover cops at the platforms catching people doing it too. People simply just have to say "hey, I missed it" and live with it. Either wait for the next one or find another way to get to where you gotta go. If you're late, you're late. It's your fault for not leaving on time.

[Guest]

Channel 2 in the link stated that they are thinking about fines for anyone that crosses those tracks, whether it be by foot or car. It's not enforced enough by Metra and I rarely see local cops monitoring the train stations so maybe it's high time for them to start. $250? Not enough. Not when your life is at stake. Raise it to $500. Then people will think twice. Put undercover cops at the platforms catching people doing it too. People simply just have to say "hey, I missed it" and live with it. Either wait for the next one or find another way to get to where you gotta go. If you're late, you're late. It's your fault for not leaving on time.

In this situation I think, because it isnt adequately enforced just like the the cell phone or texting bans, people will continue to take the risk, no matter what the fine is. Even if it were a $5000 or $10,000 fine, I dont think it would deter people from doing it. The railroads can only do so much. People have to learn common sense when it comes to being around railroad tracks and crossings. Its painfully obvious, some people dont have it! Tose of us who are railfans, we tend to want to wait for the train to pass so we can see it. Railfans I think have the most common sense when it comes to rail crossing safety. We know not to play around with any type of train whether freight, passenger or subway train, or at crossings or stations, we respect it. This might sound a bit over the top, but I think Metra and other railroads should recruit people like us to educate people on do's and dont's of railroad safety.

[Busjack]

Channel 2 in the link stated that they are thinking about fines for anyone that crosses those tracks, whether it be by foot or car. It's not enforced enough by Metra and I rarely see local cops monitoring the train stations so maybe it's high time for them to start.

There were all the advertisements about Project Lifesaver and various Metra crossings are posted with a notice about a fine. I don't know if that is a local or Metra law.

Of course, the other question is how many are inattentive, as opposed to how many are committing suicide by locomotive. A fine won't deter the latter.

[PACE 834]

I have personally once seen a passenger@a south side grade crossing get out of their car and lift up the crossing gate to let cars through before the train arrived. :(

[rotjohns]

I have personally once seen a passenger@a south side grade crossing get out of their car and lift up the crossing gate to let cars through before the train arrived.

Wow, unbelievable. People are just simply in a hurry to get to where they need to go. If you're in that big of a hurry, my goodness take a route that has an overpass or underpass. Crazy. And to think, a woman put herself and a baby in jeopardy with all this and what's the end result?

[artthouwill]

I remember some guys crossing in front of the BNSF train I was on. They made it across beccause the train was stopping at the station, but the engineer radioed the lead conductor and the conductor would not allow them to board. He told them they would have to wait for the next train which was 2 hours later (this was on a weekday). He noted that those guys could've lost their lives so they could think about that for the next two hours.

[artthouwill]

In this situation I think, because it isnt adequately enforced just like the the cell phone or texting bans, people will continue to take the risk, no matter what the fine is. Even if it were a $5000 or $10,000 fine, I dont think it would deter people from doing it. The railroads can only do so much. People have to learn common sense when it comes to being around railroad tracks and crossings. Its painfully obvious, some people dont have it! Tose of us who are railfans, we tend to want to wait for the train to pass so we can see it. Railfans I think have the most common sense when it comes to rail crossing safety. We know not to play around with any type of train whether freight, passenger or subway train, or at crossings or stations, we respect it. This might sound a bit over the top, but I think Metra and other railroads should recruit people like us to educate people on do's and dont's of railroad safety.

How do you enforce that? That is an expensive proposition to have to babsyit grown people. Take the BNSF line for example. Almost the entire line is a three track operation with BNSF being the busiest Metra line also sharing tracks with BNSF freight trains and Amtrak. No wonder Downers Grove decided to route Belmont Avenue under the tracks. You could be in for a significant wait if you get caught by a train at an intersection like that. Now take the video. As you saw on the video, three different individuals crossed in front of that train. How many "officers" on one side of the tracks would you need to arrest and ticket them? Then there was the 4th person, who would've needed medical attention immediately because they actually got hit. You would have to have someone at every single at grade Metra station? What about the crossings where there aren't any stations? Certainly you can have video cameras at RR crossings to take pictures of cars crossing the tracks when the gates are down and send them tickets (similar to red light cameras), but a camera would not do the trick for pedestrians. You know that kind of enforcement costs money and no one wants to pay for that via increased taxes or increased fares (why should we pay for someone else's stupidity?)

[BusHunter]

Channel 2 in the link stated that they are thinking about fines for anyone that crosses those tracks, whether it be by foot or car. It's not enforced enough by Metra and I rarely see local cops monitoring the train stations so maybe it's high time for them to start. $250? Not enough. Not when your life is at stake. Raise it to $500. Then people will think twice. Put undercover cops at the platforms catching people doing it too. People simply just have to say "hey, I missed it" and live with it. Either wait for the next one or find another way to get to where you gotta go. If you're late, you're late. It's your fault for not leaving on time.

I thought there was already a law on the books that states anyone going around crossing gates and crossing tracks (vehicles and pedestrians) faces a $500 fine. One thing I noticed myself that was kind of dangerous is that when an express comes through it has quite a wake and can suck you into it if you come to close to it. I can see why those usually run on the center track. I once was at a crossing gate on foot waiting for a train and could feel this suction for myself and I was a good ten to fifteen feet away behind gates. I'm surprised they run expresses and Amtraks through stations on a two track main line like on the milwaukee north. That was where I was. (Although I believe Amtraks are restricted to 75 MPH in a urban area.) With the platforms so close to the trains it's an accident waiting to happen.

[Busjack]

I'm surprised they run expresses and Amtraks through stations on a two track main line like on the milwaukee north. That was where I was. (Although I believe Amtraks are restricted to 75 MPH in a urban area.) With the platforms so close to the trains it's an accident waiting to happen.

I thought you were talking about the BNSF, which is bad enough, but you are absolutely right about the Milw N. One time I was waiting for a train at Lake Cook when they announced to move to the outbound platform for an inbound train, and after that was done, an Amtrak train sped by, spraying us with the usual winter mist. Then, they announced that Metra would actually be on the inbound platform.

Then, they say this is going to be the r.o.w. for Wisconsin high speed rail, although apparently not that high speed through that stretch.

Heck, I used to worry about an IC express commuter train sucking me off the double platform at 57th.

[Guest]

I thought there was already a law on the books that states anyone going around crossing gates and crossing tracks (vehicles and pedestrians) faces a $500 fine. One thing I noticed myself that was kind of dangerous is that when an express comes through it has quite a wake and can suck you into it if you come to close to it. I can see why those usually run on the center track. I once was at a crossing gate on foot waiting for a train and could feel this suction for myself and I was a good ten to fifteen feet away behind gates. I'm surprised they run expresses and Amtraks through stations on a two track main line like on the milwaukee north. That was where I was. (Although I believe Amtraks are restricted to 75 MPH in a urban area.) With the platforms so close to the trains it's an accident waiting to happen.

I train watch at the Edgebrook stop on the Milw. North Line. Good spot to watch all kinds of trains there, Metra, Wisconsin/Southern freights and Amtrak. Its two track, the Amtrak Hiawatha trains routinely fly through there at about 70 to 75 mph. I stay as far back as I can. Dont get me wrong, I get so tempted to want to get closer but you have in the back of your mind it gets more and more dangerous the closer and closer you get, I Dont try it!

[BusHunter]

I train watch at the Edgebrook stop on the Milw. North Line. Good spot to watch all kinds of trains there, Metra, Wisconsin/Southern freights and Amtrak. Its two track, the Amtrak Hiawatha trains routinely fly through there at about 70 to 75 mph. I stay as far back as I can. Dont get me wrong, I get so tempted to want to get closer but you have in the back of your mind it gets more and more dangerous the closer and closer you get, I Dont try it!

No kidding, we all have to respect the train and it's power. It can virtually wipe out anything in it's path. Coincidentally, my incident happened at Central/Mil north (in edgebrook)as I waited for that crossing for a NB train. Because the angle there of the crossing I always thought maybe there may have been some odd physics involved with that, but it sounds like it can happen on a 90 degree angle too. In respect to the Lake Forest incident, I wonder why there are not overpasses or underpasses contructed where people can cross sides more safely with a fence between tracks to prevent a person from crossing. Having it the way it is is like dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit. It's just too tempting for passengers.

[Busjack]

No kidding, we all have to respect the train and it's power. It can virtually wipe out anything in it's path. Coincidentally, my incident happened at Central/Mil north (in edgebrook)as I waited for that crossing for a NB train. Because the angle there of the crossing I always thought maybe there may have been some odd physics involved with that, but it sounds like it can happen on a 90 degree angle too. In respect to the Lake Forest incident, I wonder why there are not overpasses or underpasses contructed where people can cross sides more safely with a fence between tracks to prevent a person from crossing. Having it the way it is is like dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit. It's just too tempting for passengers.

Again, that is a difference between the Milw District and BNSF. At least at Lisle and Naperville, there are pedestrian underpasses, but I guess no one went to the expense of putting them elsewhere. That gets back to the cause of the River Grove incident, where the train apparently didn't stay in the station until the one in the other direction stopped there.

Most of the Milw N ones (at least as of which I know, which would be Lake Cook through Morton Grove) have a fence down the middle, but an opening in the middle with a bell for a crossing signal. And, of course, at Northbrook, the platform extends to the other side of Shermer Rd. With Lake Forest, there is not only the crossover on the tracks, but grade crossings at both ends of the station.

As far as Edgebrook, I'm surprised that there are not more accidents, with Lehigh, Devon, and Central all veering off at various angles.

[rotjohns]

Again, that is a difference between the Milw District and BNSF. At least at Lisle and Naperville, there are pedestrian underpasses, but I guess no one went to the expense of putting them elsewhere. That gets back to the cause of the River Grove incident, where the train apparently didn't stay in the station until the one in the other direction stopped there.

Most of the Milw N ones (at least as of which I know, which would be Lake Cook through Morton Grove) have a fence down the middle, but an opening in the middle with a bell for a crossing signal. And, of course, at Northbrook, the platform extends to the other side of Shermer Rd. With Lake Forest, there is not only the crossover on the tracks, but grade crossings at both ends of the station.

As far as Edgebrook, I'm surprised that there are not more accidents, with Lehigh, Devon, and Central all veering off at various angles.

There are pedestrian underpasses at Lisle and fences too, but that doesn't always deter people. They're gonna do whatever. If I remember correctly, about 1 1/2 years ago at the Lisle station, there was an Metra accident that struck and killed someone and trains were delayed. And earlier this year in Downers Grove, a man was killed trying to catch a Metra train when he was hit by an Amtrak train going in the same direction, probably using the middle tracks. That's what I mean, if you miss it, you miss it. Suck it up and wait for the next one. Don't risk your life over trying to catch a train.

[BusHunter]

Again, that is a difference between the Milw District and BNSF. At least at Lisle and Naperville, there are pedestrian underpasses, but I guess no one went to the expense of putting them elsewhere. That gets back to the cause of the River Grove incident, where the train apparently didn't stay in the station until the one in the other direction stopped there.

Most of the Milw N ones (at least as of which I know, which would be Lake Cook through Morton Grove) have a fence down the middle, but an opening in the middle with a bell for a crossing signal. And, of course, at Northbrook, the platform extends to the other side of Shermer Rd. With Lake Forest, there is not only the crossover on the tracks, but grade crossings at both ends of the station.

As far as Edgebrook, I'm surprised that there are not more accidents, with Lehigh, Devon, and Central all veering off at various angles.

I remember watching a while back a video by operation lifesaver of a woman crossing a BNSF crossing after she got off a train only to get hit by the express which was one of those green F7 locos they used to have. This was shown in full speed and right before she gets hit the video stops. It's a good video because you can feel the fear of impending doom. That probably was not a good thing for BNSF promoting they have an unsafe railroad. As far as Lake Forest the train runs in a valley up where that accident is so why you would not construct stairs/elevator to each platform is a real head scratcher. Or if they wanted to save money why not construct a mechanical gate that opens and closes at the gap in the fence where these people cross when the train trips the signal. Amazing they put gates at the street crossing and leave these pedestrian gates wide open. For all the costs of lawsuits they have to pay out like to the River Grove family this could be solved at a fraction of the cost.

[Guest]

I remember watching a while back a video by operation lifesaver of a woman crossing a BNSF crossing after she got off a train only to get hit by the express which was one of those green F7 locos they used to have. This was shown in full speed and right before she gets hit the video stops. It's a good video because you can feel the fear of impending doom. That probably was not a good thing for BNSF promoting they have an unsafe railroad. As far as Lake Forest the train runs in a valley up where that accident is so why you would not construct stairs/elevator to each platform is a real head scratcher. Or if they wanted to save money why not construct a mechanical gate that opens and closes at the gap in the fence where these people cross when the train trips the signal. Amazing they put gates at the street crossing and leave these pedestrian gates wide open. For all the costs of lawsuits they have to pay out like to the River Grove family this could be solved at a fraction of the cost.

The complete video is on YouTube.

[Busjack]

.... Or if they wanted to save money why not construct a mechanical gate that opens and closes at the gap in the fence where these people cross when the train trips the signal. Amazing they put gates at the street crossing and leave these pedestrian gates wide open. For all the costs of lawsuits they have to pay out like to the River Grove family this could be solved at a fraction of the cost.

I think it is more like Metra inherited a whole bunch of systems, and didn't think about it.

I remember there was one On The Bilevel when someone asked why the freight goes through the Glenview station just when the train going in the other direction comes in, and the answer basically was "get there a couple of minutes early." You know that some dummy won't.

[BusHunter]

The complete video is on YouTube.

Do you have a link or something specific I can put in the search engine? There seems to be alot of videos and everything I find BNSF related involves freights.