MCTS: Service Disruptions and Uncertain future

[CURRENTZ_09]

You may remember me from such post such as, CTA President Richard Rodriguez, well if you have been following that post you remember that i have mention that an MCTS follow up would be coming on May 15th, well im sorry bout the delay but here it is now. MCTS as some of you may be wondering is Milwaukee County Transit System. It's a bus only service with over 50 routes operating 7 days a week in about over a 18-20 hour period. Now, do i think some routes deserve overnight service, yes but remember this is a city where Scott Walker is governor, so go figure about the complaints that i am about to address.

First, MCTS doesnt have a dedicated source funding like most transit systems around the country and we also dont have an RTA, which was proposed in the Doyle ear but didnt make it to the Senate floor in 2010, so now we have a transit system that is dying right in front of us. Service cuts began in 2001 and have occured for the last ten years (minus 2007) with some routes either being eliminated or either some being saved by becoming a branck of another route. Fare increases began in 2001 with fares going from $1.35in 2000 to $2.25 in 2009 (and this a bus only service for that type of price). We had a transit tax ballot in 2008 and it was approved by the voters, but this along with other things that were to be included within the tax was eliminated by Scott Walker, as he was saying then by reducing county services, we will save millions and keep property taxs down. But not only was he killing county services, he also scarficed a life at Summerfest last year at O'Donnell Park due to his budget cuts. As govenor, he is now posed to kill MCTS as it is at its last legs of life.

Next year could see the end of Freeway Flyer Service (after over 40 years of service), cutting back service hours on late nights and weekends and ending some local routes all together. I have been a rider since high school and let me tell you, MCTS may have the best on time rate, but has the poorest transit connections and service runs that i have ever seen. CTA complains about over packed buses and trains (and equipment that breaks down, we have that to. If a bus breaks down on a branch of a regular route that runs every 30-35 minutes, you will have to wait another 30-35 minutes for the next bus and pray and hope that doesnt break down) but act least you have opitions. There are some excellent things about MCTS and that will be addressed in another post coming soon, but i just want feed back and comments about these problems that prohibit MCTS from moving forward

QuestionsAnswersRegardingTransit.pdf

2011 MCTS Information.pdf

[Busjack]

First, MCTS doesnt have a dedicated source funding like most transit systems around the country and we also dont have an RTA...

If you want an RTA like the one in Northeast Illinois, good luck to you. It is just a patronage ridden, do nothing organization. It got tax powers, but can't enforce service coordination or even good business practices by the service boards, as indicated by its initial reaction that the Pagano Metra scandal was not its concern. About all it can do is say "sales tax isn't coming in as expected, so cut your budget."

The linked document on MCTS Questions and Answers says that Milwaukee County already has a levy for transit, so it does have a source of funding. RTA here can't levy, but can impose a sales tax, and a real estate transfer tax was used to try to get the CTA pension fund from under water.

The one thing I was able to glean from that document was

Milwaukee County contracts with Milwaukee Transport Services, Inc. (MTS), a private, notfor profit corporation, to manage and operate the Milwaukee County Transit System (MCTS). All transit workers are employed by this private corporation. Since they are not public employees, Milwaukee transit employees working for MTS are not affected by the changes in collective bargaining.

This raises similar issues to those raised by ibebobo with regard to privatization of transit operations in Nassau county. I contended then that, while I am fairly sure that the current labor contracts would not allow privatizing CTA employees, CTA at least could privatize the management of the operation, and get the political hacks out. Won't happen though.

[busfan2]

It is a real shame that we might see the end of the transit system. My dad was a driver for many years and I have ridden for many years off and on. Elimination of transit is one of the many dreams of am talk radio. I wonder what will happen if the system dies. It was great the tax passed in 2008 but it died at the state level when Governor Doyle was in office didn't it?

[CURRENTZ_09]

It is a real shame that we might see the end of the transit system. My dad was a driver for many years and I have ridden for many years off and on. Elimination of transit is one of the many dreams of am talk radio. I wonder what will happen if the system dies. It was great the tax passed in 2008 but it died at the state level when Governor Doyle was in office didn't it?

Yes, the bill did die before Doyle left but in the 2008 election, we had a refermdum in Milwaukee supporting a tax for transit that passed but that got banded too. MCTS began dying with the introduction of then County Exceutive Scott Walker (Now Governor Scott Walker as of 2011) in 2001 after the pension scandal down at city hall. This first began with fare increases, then the decreasing of routes between 2001-2011, in some years there were both fare increases and route eliminations combined, so you can see that with this 2011-2013 budget, MCTS might as well be considered DEAD because Scott Walker knows Milwaukee County inside and out and knows how to hit it HARD. It is a shame because MCTS is considered one of Americas Best Transit Systems out there and to see it go to waste out of greed is a shame. It could have been saved, but now that Scott Walker is in office, look for a 2012 transit system that will make CTA's DOOMDAY look like childs play.

[Busjack]

....It could have been saved, but now that Scott Walker is in office, look for a 2012 transit system that will make CTA's DOOMDAY look like childs play.

I'm not going to comment on other state's politics or transit situation. But since you talk about "CTA's DOOMDAY"

• The CTA Doomsday predicted for 2005-2007 did not occur, in that the then governor, who has been convicted of 18 counts, and will be serving probably 13 years in federal prison, engaged in various schemes to divert money from capital to operating, and conditioned signing a tax increase on buying votes from seniors by giving them free rides.
• The actual cutbacks in 2010 indicate that the degree of cutbacks threatened in 2005-2007 was a political stunt.
• The current governor in effect bought votes and mortgaged the RTA by telling the RTA to take out bonds, which the state would service, to freeze CTA and paratransit fares, but the state has not paid off. If the cupboard is as bare as people indicate, there are going to be real severe fare hikes, and maybe service cuts, not as quickly as the RTA predicted, but darned soon.
• Illinois relied on a state capital bill that has been declared unconstitutional by an appellate court. I predict that that ruling stands, but, but the meantime, bonds can't be sold under it in any event. So the system continues to deteriorate.

So, as I tell anyone, if you think it is better in Illinois, Gov. Quinn sure hopes you move down here.

[CURRENTZ_09]

I'm not going to comment on other state's politics or transit situation. But since you talk about "CTA's DOOMDAY"

• The CTA Doomsday predicted for 2005-2007 did not occur, in that the then governor, who has been convicted of 18 counts, and will be serving probably 13 years in federal prison, engaged in various schemes to divert money from capital to operating, and conditioned signing a tax increase on buying votes from seniors by giving them free rides.
• The actual cutbacks in 2010 indicate that the degree of cutbacks threatened in 2005-2007 was a political stunt.
• The current governor in effect bought votes and mortgaged the RTA by telling the RTA to take out bonds, which the state would service, to freeze CTA and paratransit fares, but the state has not paid off. If the cupboard is as bare as people indicate, there are going to be real severe fare hikes, and maybe service cuts, not as quickly as the RTA predicted, but darned soon.
• Illinois relied on a state capital bill that has been declared unconstitutional by an appellate court. I predict that that ruling stands, but, but the meantime, bonds can't be sold under it in any event. So the system continues to deteriorate.

So, as I tell anyone, if you think it is better in Illinois, Gov. Quinn sure hopes you move down here.

Some new information i didnt know about thanks. But if you seen (and im for sure you have) seen Spotty Walker act a fool and the Transit cuts he's proposed, then i must stay true to my statement that CTA's Doomsday will look like childsplay

[Archon]

And they are cutting the routes that they have almost 100% fare payment on the routes they want to cut every body pays there fare. They should cut the route were only about 30% pay the fare if you are that lucky. Also they want to get a Street care system in downtown great but it is not going to connect to any bus because there will be none.

[CURRENTZ_09]

And they are cutting the routes that they have almost 100% fare payment on the routes they want to cut every body pays there fare. They should cut the route were only about 30% pay the fare if you are that lucky. Also they want to get a Street care system in downtown great but it is not going to connect to any bus because there will be none.

This is a shame because it looks like out of all the freeway flyers that are going to get cut, route 79 is the only one to make the cut. i can't wait to see how they combine or modifiy 28 routes, that should be a task by its self (just look at the route cuts of 19, 11 and 14 for how they messed that up after cutting route 20 and the vilet branch of route 11 in 2008 (which returned in 2009 as route 33). Also, cutting the summerfest flyers is a big mistake so expect attendence at summerfest 2012 to hurt a little from those services being cut too. I can't wait til November 2011 to see the final budget for the transit system, this is a sad day for MCTS as we truly begin to see it's grand finale. Thanks SPOTTY WALKER

[busfan2]

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110811-freeway-flyer,0,4163223.story

Just saw this on Channel 6 in Milwaukee this morning. Like currentz_09 "I can't wait to see how they combine or modify 28 routes".

[Busjack]

http://www.fox6now.c...1-freeway-flyer,0,4163223.story

Just saw this on Channel 6 in Milwaukee this morning. Like currentz_09 "I can't wait to see how they combine or modify 28 routes".

I took a look at the link. While I'm certainly not from Milwaukee, there were some similarities to Park and Ride bus services in other cities with which I am familiar.

I noted the quote about being willing to pay more, but I see on the RideMCTS site that Freeway Flyer fares are already $3.25 compared to $2.25 for regular routes. Is it a matter that:

• the fare is not proportionate to the distance traveled, or
• ridership is not that good on those routes?*

Or, as the article seems to indicate, Milwaukee County is using a meataxe to cut off its own nose, sort of like what CTA often threatens to do?

________

*Again, in another city, I once commuted on a P&R that ran a 55 seat suburban for about 7 passengers. Eventually it was canceled.

[See Tea Eh]

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110811-freeway-flyer,0,4163223.story

Just saw this on Channel 6 in Milwaukee this morning. Like currentz_09 "I can't wait to see how they combine or modify 28 routes".

You don't have to wait. You can see for yourself right here.

I think it's a long-overdue cleaning up of an archaic and confusing route network. The unfortunate part is that the headways are going to be terrible, and lots of the southwest part of the county will lose weekend service.

[busfan2]

You don't have to wait. You can see for yourself right here.

I think it's a long-overdue cleaning up of an archaic and confusing route network. The unfortunate part is that the headways are going to be terrible, and lots of the southwest part of the county will lose weekend service.

Thanks. I think most of the proposed routings make sense. I do question the route 15s terminating where they are proposed and then have route 51 continue on along the old 15 and also having route 35 continue to Florist instead of the 30 as currently. It looks like it will terminate at villard. Oh well I don't make those decisions. I do feel for those who will be adversely affected by the frequency reductions. It does look like it will clean up the network of routes.

[flossman]

I'm just praying they don't decide to cut the Flyers. I take the 40 almost every day, and it's always packed, no matter which one I take.

Edit: I do agree that the route cleanup is long-overdue and a novel way of getting more with less money.

[See Tea Eh]

Thanks. I think most of the proposed routings make sense. I do question the route 15s terminating where they are proposed and then have route 51 continue on along the old 15 and also having route 35 continue to Florist instead of the 30 as currently. It looks like it will terminate at villard. Oh well I don't make those decisions. I do feel for those who will be adversely affected by the frequency reductions. It does look like it will clean up the network of routes.

My guess is that it has to do with the headways demanded on the segments in question. They probably wanted to preserve a decent headway on the 15, but didn't need the service south of Oklahoma, and route 51 probably has headways more in line with what was needed for the south end of the 15.

Same with the 30/35, most likely.

Incidentally, this means that the 30 will terminate where it did prior to a north side restructuring way back in June 1988, when the 30 ended at Rohr (the rollsigns said "Sherman & Rohr", but when the electronic signs came out, they said "30 VILLARD" because nobody knew where Rohr was), and route 12 operated on Hopkins to Villard, then up 43rd to loop via Mill, Teutonia, Good Hope, and 43rd.

That said, I'm not sure why they couldn't take the 30 up to Silver Spring, where the 35 was recently extended and provides a connection with the 63.

I'm glad to see that 67th & Keefe is no longer going to be the terminus for a bus route. I can't believe how long it has taken them to finally extend service to 76th & Capitol, vs. the current turnaround with a park on one side, a couple of apartment buildings on the other, and a cemetery across the street.

As I said in an earlier post, a much improved route network overall, even though the headways are going to suck on the remaining routes.

A couple of years ago, the following routes had branches (not counting routes with regular scheduled short-turns): 11, 12, 14 (Howard branch now discontinued), 15, 18, 19, 23, 30, 31, 35 (Southridge service on both branches now discontinued), 60, 67, 68, 76, 80.

Under the proposed route network you'll have 23, 60, 65 and 80. Going from 15 routes with branches down to 4 certainly cleans things up a lot, and for the streets that manage to retain service on the major routes, they'll actually get better service (for example, I'm sure south 76th Street will wind up with much better service under this proposal than it has currently; however that better service clearly comes at the expense of 60th, 68th, 84th and 92nd Streets, which all have crappy service at the moment anyway).

However, the MCTS site says that there will be "segment eliminations" on 23 and 60, but doesn't specify what those are. I could guess that for route 60, it would either be the UWM service (I hope not), or the service to 124th Street. For route 23, given that they recently restructured the service into the 23 and 223, and there is no mention of eliminating the 223 which connects to both ends of the existing 23, I can't really imagine what they would cut, unless they're looking at cutting it back from the transit center to some other place along Wisconsin Avenue.

I'm just praying they don't decide to cut the Flyers. I take the 40 almost every day, and it's always packed, no matter which one I take.

Edit: I do agree that the route cleanup is long-overdue and a novel way of getting more with less money.

Unfortunately, the freeway flyers have been on the chopping block for some time. I'm told Scott Walker would never approve a total elimination of all flyer routes because he realized that some of the flyer passengers voted for him.

Now that Walker isn't at the County any more, it's time for them to go. The main problem with the flyers is that they are all rush direction only service, so they operate empty for half their time in service (deadheading out to the lots in the morning, and back from the lots in the afternoon). So, even though a bus may have a lot of passengers, you really have to divide that number in two to get a true picture of the productivity of the service.

Given that the system wants to make the cuts as painless as possible, and given that the vast majority of flyer passengers are not 100% dependent on the bus (since you have to drive to a Park & Ride Lot to board the bus, it suggests you already have access to a car; and only a couple of freeway flyers are left that serve streets in addition to Park & Ride Lots: 44 and 48), they have no choice but to cut the flyers, or eliminate more service elsewhere.

When you're facing a massive budget shortfall such as this, there are no easy choices. Someone's going to get hurt.

[busfan2]

See Tea Eh- Thanks for the information and the explanation of 15 and 51. The more I think of it that makes sense. When looking on the MCTS website I noticed the same thing regarding segments of routes 23 and 60 being cut. I also saw that it said service frequency will be reduced. I wonder if someone added those 2 routes in accidentally. If they do a segment elimination on 60 I'm going to guess it would be the 124th street trips.

[CURRENTZ_09]

WHOA ok im on the late show but tis is more interesting than i thought it would be, i mean MCTS is going to look completely different for 2012 and beyound, once the changes are set, they will be set in stone for a loooooooooooooong time

[CURRENTZ_09]

OK, here is all the information thats been posted so far about the budget cuts that may occur when the MCTS 2012 Transit Budget is released in October, to be confirmed by County Executive Chris Abele the 1st week of November, please note when reading these documents, these are only suggested cuts that are on the table and this is the first time that MCTS has made the public aware of their budget process, so this must mean that big changes are in store. Please take the time to read these documents clearly and comment. Also, the comment about Route 30 (Sherman-Wisconsin) Sherman/Rohr teminal sign, it was used when the 35 (35th st) began to use the terminal when it replaced Route 80 service on that segment between 35th & Capitol and Villard & Sherman (Sherman/Rohr, which is only a block north from Villard), but in later years used Villard before in 2010, it continued north to its current terminal at Silver Spring (42nd & Reichert)

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 11, 18, 54 & 68).pdf

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 12, 21, 30, 35 & 80).pdf

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 15 & 51).pdf

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 19, 57 & 219).pdf

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 31 & 33).pdf

2012 SERVICE PROPOSED RESTRUCTING (ROUTES 64, 67 & 76).pdf

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS (REGARDING STATE BUDGET) (REVISIED JULY 2011).pdf

[CURRENTZ_09]

Well, i have exciting news to viewers that have replyed and downloaded material off this post. You might as well keep those documents as collector items because the services cuts will not happen for 2012, so we do get another reprive for at least 2012, but be warned we will be discussing about this again by Summer 2012, here is the press release from Milwaukee County Executive Chris Abele. Hope you enjoyed the post and the documents and hope we will not continue this post next year.

Yours Truly,

Corey Ellison

You may E-mail me @ currentz09@gmail.com

Save as a Friend on Facebook @ Corey Kenneth Ellison or facebook.com/corey.k.ellison

And if anybody has printed Transit Material they would like to trade, please contact me at the information listed above.

Abele2012BudgetRemarkstoCounty.pdf

AbeleProposes2012BudgetWithout.pdf

[Busjack]

Well, i have exciting news to viewers that have replyed and downloaded material off this post. You might as well keep those documents as collector items because the services cuts will not happen for 2012, so we do get another reprive for at least 2012, but be warned we will be discussing about this again by Summer 2012, here is the press release from Milwaukee County Executive Chris Abele. ...

Two things notable from my Chicago perspective:

• At least the county is responsible for putting transit in its budget, as compared to 4 agencies here.
• The reprieve (according to the first press release) depends on getting CMAQ money to keep the express routes. That isn't much different that my post that Pace says that it can put new routes on the Jane Addams Tollway if it gets CMAQ grants. Both mean that nothing is assured yet, since neither Milwaukee County nor Pace knows whether the applications will be successful.

The other rub on the Milwaukee announcement is that they are assuming that CMAQ grants will be given to maintain existing service, while they are usually given (at least in the Chicago area) for testing new routes to see if there is sufficient demand.

Like I say, I don't claim to know what is happening in Wisconsin, but don't count your chickens (or something like that...).:lol:

[CURRENTZ_09]

Two things notable from my Chicago perspective:

• At least the county is responsible for putting transit in its budget, as compared to 4 agencies here.
• The reprieve (according to the first press release) depends on getting CMAQ money to keep the express routes. That isn't much different that my post that Pace says that it can put new routes on the Jane Addams Tollway if it gets CMAQ grants. Both mean that nothing is assured yet, since neither Milwaukee County nor Pace knows whether the applications will be successful.

The other rub on the Milwaukee announcement is that they are assuming that CMAQ grants will be given to maintain existing service, while they are usually given (at least in the Chicago area) for testing new routes to see if there is sufficient demand.

Like I say, I don't claim to know what is happening in Wisconsin, but don't count your chickens (or something like that...).

I'm aware of what you are saying, but just to know that service levels are going to continue at current levels is good news to hear in a rough year with Spotty Walker, so we know that the County has already applied for the grants and they will be approved.

[Busjack]

... the County has already applied for the grants and they will be approved.

You certainly don't know the latter, unless you work for US DOT.

[CURRENTZ_09]

You certainly don't know the latter, unless you work for US DOT.

Trust, if a statement like that has been applied, then it must of been in the works for a while, they won't just announce that just out the blue, everybody knew once scott walker got in, that he was going to do major damage control. He knew Milwaukee inside and out (Hell do your research and you'll find he was County Executive From 2001 until 2010) so he knew how to destory not only the county services, but the very backbone of Milwaukee MCTS, so remember the facts of the city not just the documents posted on here, they are for discussion, not politics

[See Tea Eh]

Trust, if a statement like that has been applied, then it must of been in the works for a while, they won't just announce that just out the blue, everybody knew once scott walker got in, that he was going to do major damage control. He knew Milwaukee inside and out (Hell do your research and you'll find he was County Executive From 2001 until 2010) so he knew how to destory not only the county services, but the very backbone of Milwaukee MCTS, so remember the facts of the city not just the documents posted on here, they are for discussion, not politics

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but again, don't assume that they will automatically be approved just because they applied for the money.

In fact, if you read the detailed county budget proposal, there is still a contingency for what to do if the grants are not approved, so that alone says that it's not absolutely a done deal.

[CURRENTZ_09]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but again, don't assume that they will automatically be approved just because they applied for the money.

In fact, if you read the detailed county budget proposal, there is still a contingency for what to do if the grants are not approved, so that alone says that it's not absolutely a done deal.

EXACTLY, I KNOW ALL OF THAT I READ THE DOCUMENT OR I WOULDN'T HAVE POSTED. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE WITH IN MILWAUKEE BECAUSE MCTS HAS BEEN A HOT POTATO SINCE 2001, ITS ON ITS DEATH BED AND I HAVE FAITH THAT CHRIS ABELE WILL DO EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO FIX IT (Sorry bout the cap locks............i am not shouting at anyone i forgot they were on)

[CURRENTZ_09]

OK, new Collectors items MCTS have proposed the following Express routes to join current MCTS Service levels in 2012, assuming that the Grants were approved to become included in the 2012 budget.

The Following Express routes are as follows

Bayshore|Airport Express

Fondy|National Express

Capitol Drive Express

2012 BAYSHORE-AIRPORT EXPRESS.pdf

2012 CAPITOL DRIVE EXPRESS.pdf

2012 FONDY-NATIONAL EXPRESS.pdf