CTA Bus Engine/Transmission Info

[sw4400]

Just thought I'd post the current bus fleet with Engine/Transmission information(courtesy of Wikipedia)

2000-2002 NOVA LFS(6400-6883):
Engine: Cummins ISC
Transmission: ZF 5HP552C

2006-2007 Optima Opus(500-544):
Engine: Cummins ISB
Transmission: ZF 5HP502C

2006-2009 New Flyer D40LF(1000-2029):

Engine(1000-1629): Cummins ISM
Transmission(1000-1429): ZF 6HP592C

Engine(1630-2029): Cummins ISL
Transmission(1430-1929) ZF 6HP594C

Transmission(1930-2029) Allison B400

2006-2007 New Flyer DE40LF(800-809, 900-909)

Engine(800-809): Cummins ISL
Transmission(800-809): Allison EP-40 Hybridrive System

Engine(900-909): Cummins ISB
Transmission(900-909): ISE Thundervolt Hybridrive System

2008-2009 New Flyer DE60LF(4000-4207)

Engine: Cummins ISL
Transmission: Allison EP-50 Hybridrive System

2012 New Flyer DE60LFR(Numbers TBD)

Engine: Cummins ISL9
Transmission: Allison EP-50 Hybridrive System

2012 New Flyer D60LFR(Numbers TBD)

Engine: Cummins ISL9
Transmission: Allison WB-500R

2013 New Flyer XE40

Engine: TBD
Transmission: TBD

[Busjack]

...

2013 New Flyer XE40

Engine: TBD

Transmissio: TBD

If this refers to the 2 Electric buses, the answer to both is None. They will have some sort of electrical traction motor(s).

[See Tea Eh]

Assuming the XE40 are the two all-electric buses that are being built, they will have neither engines nor transmissions.

[sw4400]

If this refers to the 2 Electric buses, the answer to both is None. They will have some sort of electrical traction motor(s).

Well, it still counts as a "Engine" to some extent, since it is a electric bus with no overhead wires. It has to have something to power it(Engine, so to speak) and propel it(Transmission, so to speak)

[sw4400]

Assuming the XE40 are the two all-electric buses that are being built, they will have neither engines nor transmissions.

Those are the two Electric buses, but they have to have some "Engine" to power them and a "Transmission" to propel them.

[Busjack]

Well, it still counts as a "Engine" to some extent, since it is a electric bus with no overhead wires. It has to have something to power it(Engine, so to speak) and propel it(Transmission, so to speak)

Batteries and an electrical cord plugged into the charging station. Read the first Press Release (preceding the one on the CTA order), which says:

The bus is equipped with an electric drive and is modified to carry advanced lithium ion batteries from MHI that are charged from the city's electrical grid instead of by a conventional diesel engine.

This ain't no hybrid. More like a Nissan Leaf than a Fisker Karma/Chevy Volt.

[Busjack]

Maybe related to this topic, is that while CTA's 3 fuel cell buses still sit there, New Flyer and Ballard have reintroduced the fuel cell bus as the H40LFR. No engine in those, either.

While the 900s have an engine, technically they don't have a transmission.

[Busjack]

As far as "unknown," the NF Press Release on the CTA order says:

CTA's battery-electric bus will feature the latest in electric traction drives and components supplied by Siemens, including a high efficiency permanent magnet traction motor, inverters, voltage protection modules, junction boxes and the application software.

[Busjack]

BTW, whoever posted it on Wikipedia may have gotten it from page 81 of the latest addendum to the 600 bus order. That was included there on the basis of a question "if we are evaluated based on compatibility, what do you have?"

However, my impression from the stories about rebuilding the 1000 series buses is that all are supposed to get the same engines, instead of up to 1629 having ISM and the rest ISL.

Anyway, the addendum indicates that the last 400 have Allison B400 transmissions.

[Busjack]

Also interesting from the addendum is that 1000-1429 have American Seating 6488. 1430-2029 and 4000-4149 American Seating Insight, and 4150-4207 4One Aries.

However, I don't think that is correct, in that the earlier buses were retrofitted, and I recently rode on a 1300 that had the Insight. Also later that day, I rode on a 1630+ (both Route 60) that seemed to have a different type of seat (instead of the scooped back, it had a flatter one with a pebbled metal sheet insert).

Thus, does anyone have any more current info?

[Diesel S560]

Batteries and an electrical cord plugged into the charging station. Read the first Press Release (preceding the one on the CTA order), which says:

This ain't no hybrid. More like a Nissan Leaf than a Fisker Karma/Chevy Volt.

The Fisker Karma and Chevy Volt are not hybrids either. The only difference between the Leaf and the Fisker Karma and Chevy Volt is that the ladder two vehicles have an ICE range extender that is linked to an electric generator. The ICE does not directly propel the wheels unlike more traditional hybrids. All 3 cars are considered EV's and all can run on electricity alone for an extended period of time until their respective batteries are depleted.

[Busjack]

The Fisker Karma and Chevy Volt are not hybrids either. The only difference between the Leaf and the Fisker Karma and Chevy Volt is that the ladder two vehicles have an ICE range extender for their electric generator. The ICE does not directly propel the wheels unlike a traditional hybrid. All 3 cars are considered EV's and all can run on electricity alone for an extended period of time until their respective batteries are depleted.

Probably OT.

However, by that definition, the bus series hybrids (BAE and apparently formerly ISE) wouldn't be hybrids either.

However, in this case, propulsion or range isn't going to be aided by a combustion engine, although the Press Release indicates that there will be a diesel heater. Like the Leaf, once the battery is dead, so are these two buses.

[Diesel S560]

Probably OT. However, by that definition, the bus series hybrids (BAE and apparently formerly ISE) wouldn't be hybrids either. However, in this case, propulsion or range isn't going to be aided by a combustion engine, although the Press Release indicates that there will be a diesel heater. Like the Leaf, once the battery is dead, so are these two buses.

Technically the BAE series hybrid powered buses would still be considered hybrids unless they have an "electric only" mode that would propel the wheels. This is what separates the Volt and Karma from other traditional hybrids like the Ford Fusion, Honda Civic, and the ubiqutous Toyota Prius. In theory, the Karma and Volt have a set-up similar to that of a series hybridrive system. However both vehicles can run independent of their range extending generators on pure electricity alone making them electric vehicles first and foremost. As the technology improves so will the electric range making the range extender potentially a thing of the past.

[Busjack]

Technically the BAE series hybrid powered buses would still be considered hybrids unless they have an "electric only" mode, this is what separates the Volt and Karma from other traditional hybrids like the Ford Fusion, Honda Civic, and the ubiqutous Toyota Prius. In theory, the Karma and Volt have a set-up similar to that of a series hybridrive system. However both vehicles can run independent of their range extending generators on pure electricity alone making them electric vehicles first and foremost. As the technology improves so will the electric range making the range extender potentially a thing of the past.

Various transit authorities run their hybrids in "electric only" mode for short distances. For instance, apparently Seattle does through tunnels, although they are parallel hybrids. I suppose that someone from Seattle could elaborate.

[Diesel S560]

Various transit authorities run their hybrids in "electric only" mode for short distances. For instance, apparently Seattle does through tunnels, although they are parallel hybrids. I suppose that someone from Seattle could elaborate.

Yes there maybe several TA's that run hybrid buses in electric only mode in certain instances. However the notion of considering a hybrid bus an EV is negligible when factoring in the very short distance that said hybrid can travel in electric only mode. The parallel hybrid propulsion system is a totally different subject that is out of the realm of my previous posts. The point I was trying to make is that in order for a vehicle to be considered an EV it must be able to travel for an extended period of time in electric only mode. The Fisker Karma and Chevy Volt both have the resources to travel for an extended range of time in electric only mode----unfortunately a hybrid powered bus is not withstanding.

[sw4400]

Also interesting from the addendum is that 1000-1429 have American Seating 6488. 1430-2029 and 4000-4149 American Seating Insight, and 4150-4207 4One Aries.

However, I don't think that is correct, in that the earlier buses were retrofitted, and I recently rode on a 1300 that had the Insight. Also later that day, I rode on a 1630+ (both Route 60) that seemed to have a different type of seat (instead of the scooped back, it had a flatter one with a pebbled metal sheet insert).

Thus, does anyone have any more current info?

Recheck those numbers, Busjack. The New Flyers started changing somewhere in the early 1300's from American Seating Insight, not 6488. I know 1302 has American seating 6488, where 1375 has American seating Insight. I think the retrofit occured somwhere in the 1330's. I'm surprised the CTA didn't finish the retrofit they claimed they were going to do later on. If they did, then 1000-13XX would have the American Seating Insight.

[Busjack]

Recheck those numbers, Busjack. The New Flyers started changing somewhere in the early 1300's from American Seating Insight, not 6488. I know 1302 has American seating 6488, where 1375 has American seating Insight. I think the retrofit occured somwhere in the 1330's. I'm surprised the CTA didn't finish the retrofit they claimed they were going to do later on. If they did, then 1000-13XX would have the American Seating Insight.

All I know is what I rode. Being under the stress of going to and from jury duty, you won't get more definite numbers from me on the two buses I rode.

And if you read my post more closely, you will see that I was questioning the models that CTA gave in its addendum.

Update: Image of the chart in the addendum:

[sw4400]

Ok, I was slightly wrong about what buses started using the Insight seating. I am currently on bus#1322, and it has the insight seats. So the first bus to have the insight seats is between #1303 and #1321.

[andrethebusman]

Seating as follows:

1000 Insight (remember, this is 1000 2nd. 1000 1st has 6488's, but is a maintenance training bus - apparently numbered 5321000)

1001-1303 6488

1304-1929 Insight (also 800-809, 900-909)

1930-2029 I guess Insight?, but both wheelchair positions on curb side instead on one on each

4000-4149 Insight

4150-4207 Completely different, stainless frame with gray padding

Recheck those numbers, Busjack. The New Flyers started changing somewhere in the early 1300's from American Seating Insight, not 6488. I know 1302 has American seating 6488, where 1375 has American seating Insight. I think the retrofit occured somwhere in the 1330's. I'm surprised the CTA didn't finish the retrofit they claimed they were going to do later on. If they did, then 1000-13XX would have the American Seating Insight.

[See Tea Eh]

And last time I saw it, 4155 had a completely different type of seats from any other bus in the CTA fleet. Don't know what the model type is.

[sw4400]

Here's a more updated powertrain roster of the CTA Fleet from the TMC's to present. I didn't include the used buses from PACE or Seattle Metro in the lists during the time frame...

4400 & 4900-Series TMC RTS(1989-1990)

• Detroit Diesel 6V92

5300-Series Flxible Metro(1990-1991)

• 5300-5740: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
• 5741-5744: Detroit Diesel 6L71TA
• 5745-5765: Cummins L-10
• 5766-5769: Detroit Diesel 6V92TA

6000-Series Flxible Metro(1994-1995)

• 6000-6304: Detroit Series-50
• 6305-6329: Cummins C8.3

5800-Series New Flyer(1995)

• 5800-5861: Detroit Series-50
• 5862-5864: Cummins C8.3(these engines were replaced with Detroit Series-50 during rehabs)

6400-Series Nova LFS(2000-2002)

• Cummins ISC

7500-Series NABI 60-LFW(2003-2004)

• Detroit Series-50

7800-Series NABI 45C-LFW(2005)

• Detroit Series-50

1000-Series New Flyer D40LF(2006-2009)

• Cummins ISM6(1000-1429)
• Cummins ISM7(1430-1629)
• Cummins ISL7(1630-1929)
• Cummins ISL8(1930-2029)

500-Series Optima Opus(2006)

• Cummins ISB02

800-Series New Flyer DE40LF(2006)

• Cummins ISL8.9L

900-Series New Flyer(2007)

• Cummins ISB6.7L

4000-Series New Flyer DE60LF(2008-2009)

• Cummins ISL8.9L

4300-Series New Flyer DE60LFR(2012)

• Cummins ISL9

4333-Series New Flyer D60LFR(2013)

• Cummins ISL9

7900-Series Nova LFS Smart Bus(2014)

• Cummins ISL9

[jajuan]

You might want to make a correction to the transmissions in the NF 1000s list. You have 1000-1629 as having ZF 6HP592C transmissions and 1630-1929 having ZF 6HP594C transmissions. However, per the info Kevin posted in the Buses section of the site, the cutoff is actually 1000-1429 having the ZF 6HP592C and 1430-1929 being equipped with the ZF 6HP594C.