Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[pudgym29]

I am registered with CTA for my Chicago Card. I also have an account with CTA through which I have ordered numerous magnetic-striped 1, 2 (when those were offered), 3, and 7-day passes. I never got a notice about exchanging my Chicago Card for a Ventra card. Maybe it lost track of me. I did get the notice when my first Chicago Card was going to expire.

Anyhow, a day came when I needed to ride transit. I wound up at the Belmont Blue Line "L" station. I took a minute to note the machine's instructions. I opted to buy a new Ventra card. I'm glad to state that I successfully deduced how to buy the card, and put $25.00 on it. When I got back to the domicile later that night, I manuevered to the Ventra W-WW site and registered said card. My balance was accurate to the penny.

What I would like to see from the Ventra card is: When I tap my card, it should display my current balance. If my Chicago Card could do that, so should it. I also want more clarification on how I pre-register a 1, 3, or 7-day pass on Ventra. It sounds to me like I have to go to the website (or can I go to an "L" station?) and tell it I want to begin using a pass. If I want to board an eastbound #77 Belmont bus as my first ride of a 3-day pass, I think I have to go to the website immediately before boarding.

Oh, and what about the value on my Chicago Card? Ummm, don't tell CTA, but I think my last use of it put my balance at -$1.50. So I am not worried about its value being transferred.

[Busjack]

...

Anyhow, a day came when I needed to ride transit. I wound up at the Belmont Blue Line "L" station. I took a minute to note the machine's instructions. I opted to buy a new Ventra card. I'm glad to state that I successfully deduced how to buy the card, and put $25.00 on it. When I got back to the domicile later that night, I manuevered to the Ventra W-WW site and registered said card. My balance was accurate to the penny. ...

If you go to the CTA Tattler, it appears that the bigger stink is getting the card in the mail and figuring out what your access code is, without which you don't get further. Also, apparently a user needs a web enabled device to get an access code before one can call the 800 number to activate the card, or gets put on interminable hold, according to Kevin O'Neil.

As I said a couple of days ago, what is going to be the next confusing mess to blame on the customers?

[BusHunter]

If you go to the CTA Tattler, it appears that the bigger stink is getting the card in the mail and figuring out what your access code is, without which you don't get further. Also, apparently a user needs a web enabled device to get an access code before one can call the 800 number to activate the card, or gets put on interminable hold, according to Kevin O'Neil.

As I said a couple of days ago, what is going to be the next confusing mess to blame on the customers?

It would make a little sense since you have to manage your account online, but they can't expect all riders to be online.

I got confused in my first five seconds at the ventra machine. When you go to buy a card, the machine asks "how do you want your $5 applied as transit value or as a pass." If you applied it as transit value could you then use the value as a pass? I don't understand why you have to decide already? Why don't they just have a balance and you can later decide what to purchase and if you don't purchase anything then the bus or train deducts a standard fare.

[sw4400]

What am I looking at here with the transactions marked "CTA Back Office"... one for $5.00 and one for $0.00??? I was at work when those went through. I still have my $5.00 credit, but that mystifies me. Was this something to do with when I first registered, because I got the $5.00 credit same day.

[owine]

If you go to the CTA Tattler, it appears that the bigger stink is getting the card in the mail and figuring out what your access code is, without which you don't get further. Also, apparently a user needs a web enabled device to get an access code before one can call the 800 number to activate the card, or gets put on interminable hold, according to Kevin O'Neil.

As I said a couple of days ago, what is going to be the next confusing mess to blame on the customers?

This is the dumbest of the dumb Ventra issues. The letter that came with my card issued the same exact edict about logging in to the website first to set my access code before calling to activate the card. I'm sorry that so many seem to have issues following basic instructions...

[Busjack]

This is the dumbest of the dumb Ventra issues. The letter that came with my card issued the same exact edict about logging in to the website first to set my access code before calling to activate the card. I'm sorry that so many seem to have issues following basic instructions...

But the real question is why someone is coming up with instructions so complex (as I pointed out on the CTA Tattler, way more complex than to activate a credit card or pay taxes online) that the target audience can't figure it out? Does everyone have to have the intelligence of Claypool or have trigger at their right hand just to get a ride? Why should someone picking up a phone at Customer Service take so long? Comcast has at least figured that one out.

Also, there is the issue stated on the CTA Tattler that you have to keep and make the connection to the e-mail. Are those people blowing smoke?

[owine]

But the real question is why someone is coming up with instructions so complex (as I pointed out on the CTA Tattler, way more complex than to activate a credit card or pay taxes online) that the target audience can't figure it out? Does everyone have to have the intelligence of Claypool or have trigger at their right hand just to get a ride? Why should someone picking up a phone at Customer Service take so long? Comcast has at least figured that one out.

Also, there is the issue stated on the CTA Tattler that you have to keep and make the connection to the e-mail. Are those people blowing smoke?

Here's how I did it, which I think is reasonable:

I got the email three weeks ago saying my card had been printed and mailed including my temporary username and password. I logged into the Ventra website, changed my password and set an access code as part of the process. Then all I needed to do was call the automated line to activate my card.

It's the same exact thing that activating a credit/debit card does, but in that case they ask for a PIN/SSN to verify you. With all of the hoopla about the optional debit card, isn't this access code (which is essentially a customer service PIN, not uncommon) better than the alternative, associating your SSN with your transit account?

With that said, a better process probably would have been to not assign usernames/passwords in advance and essentially ship unregistered cards. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were factors that made than unfeasible.

[Busjack]

...

With that said, a better process probably would have been to not assign usernames/passwords in advance and essentially ship unregistered cards. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were factors that made than unfeasible.

Apparently that's what the people who had Chicago Cards, but decided to buy Ventra cards at a station or a retail outlet, did.

But then CTA couldn't get into the charade that they were "waiving" the $5 fee, which would have been credited on registration, anyway.

Again, any credit card with which I have dealt came with instructions to call 1-800-whatever to activate it, and then go to the website if you wanted to use online account features, not the other way around. More recently, they have said you can activate it on their website, but the 1-800 number option is still there.

Of course, the only reason a mailed credit card has to be activated is to assure that the intended recipient received it, since about 25 years ago there were reports of credit cards being stolen in the mail by identity thieves.

[jajuan]

What am I looking at here with the transactions marked "CTA Back Office"... one for $5.00 and one for $0.00??? I was at work when those went through. I still have my $5.00 credit, but that mystifies me. Was this something to do with when I first registered, because I got the $5.00 credit same day.

Your beginning transit value balance and then Ventra crediting the $5.00 fee back to your card as a transit value after you completed the registration. As I was explaining with my card above, the additional $5.00 credit on your card makes it the equivalent of you having a $5.00 transit card and 7-Day pass but now that you have Ventra, all on one card. You can use the $5.00 after your 7-Day pass is used down or it could be something to have in reserve for a friend or relative in addition to your pass that's loaded.

[jajuan]

If you go to the CTA Tattler, it appears that the bigger stink is getting the card in the mail and figuring out what your access code is, without which you don't get further. Also, apparently a user needs a web enabled device to get an access code before one can call the 800 number to activate the card, or gets put on interminable hold, according to Kevin O'Neil.

As I said a couple of days ago, what is going to be the next confusing mess to blame on the customers?

The access code I just made up when I registered the card. It had to be four digits long.

[Busjack]

Your beginning transit value balance and then Ventra crediting the $5.00 fee back to your card as a transit value after you completed the registration. As I was explaining with my card above, the additional $5.00 credit on your card makes it the equivalent of you having a $5.00 transit card and 7-Day pass but now that you have Ventra, all on one card. You can use the $5.00 after your 7-Day pass is used down or it could be something to have in reserve for a friend or relative in addition to your pass that's loaded.

I don't think that answers sw's question.

He seemed satisfied that he got the credit. What he was questioning were all the bogus $0.00 transactions, not that they were costing him anything.

However, your answer also seems to imply that the $5.00 can't be applied to next week's or month's pass, in which it is something that either has to be spent or gets forfeited in 18 months through the dormancy charge. I suppose that there is a third possible result.

[jajuan]

I don't think that answers sw's question.

He seemed satisfied that he got the credit. What he was questioning were all the bogus $0.00 transactions, not that they were costing him anything.

However, your answer also seems to imply that the $5.00 can't be applied to next week's or month's pass, in which it is something that either has to be spent or gets forfeited in 18 months through the dormancy charge. I suppose that there is a third possible result.

Actually I think it can be applied to another pass if he so chooses. The Ventra site gives the option to use any stored transit value, your bank account or a credit card to pay for unlimited ride pass loads. He can look at the Back office line item of $0.00 the way I suggested above or just look at it as a dummy item to show how the Ventra computers were communicating to process his $5.00 credit. However he looks at it, that's all it is their computer system processing the refund of the fee to his card as a transit value.

[jajuan]

This is the dumbest of the dumb Ventra issues. The letter that came with my card issued the same exact edict about logging in to the website first to set my access code before calling to activate the card. I'm sorry that so many seem to have issues following basic instructions...

Yeah I figured out that they were asking me to set the access code, much the same way they were asking me to choose a password when I did the registration online. Though the access code thing they could have left as optional since a large number of folks won't be using these cards as debit cards. At least I know I won't be.

[sw4400]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

[MarioM]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

As I understand it, the pass that is in queue will activate the first time either of the following happens:

1) You ride a Pace bus.

2) You ride CTA or Pace after the other 7-day pass expires.

That does mean that if you ride a Pace bus between now and the 19th, you

will have two passes running at the same time. Since the system can't

charge the CTA-only pass for a Pace fare, it's going to look for a

Pace-eligible payment form. It looks for passes before transit value,

so that will cause the second pass to activate.

Otherwise, if you ride only CTA between now and the 19th, the second pass will

activate the next time you ride anything after the first pass expires

on the 19th. Passes are only supposed to activate the first time you use them, not when your other pass expires.

And I have never personally tried this and can't guarantee it will work the

way it is advertised. Please let us know how it works out for you.

[jajuan]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

It's pretty much what MarioM just said. Your CTA/Pace 7-Day pass won't activate until you either tap it on a bus or train after the CTA only pass expires or if you tap it on whichever Pace bus you're going to ride if the CTA pass hasn't expired yet. In queue means it's available and ready for use for whichever scenario mentioned comes. Hopefully you don't have to go out of town on your trip until after the CTA pass expires on Thursday or else you will have two passes active simultaneously since the CTA/Pace combination 7-day will activate if you tap it on a Pace bus while the CTA one is still active yet invalid on Pace, and Ventra readers are indeed programmed to look for a valid fare medium stored on your card to pay your fare. But as long as your trip is after the expiration date and time of the CTA 7-Day pass, you should be fine and good to go. Your CTA pass will just expire on Thursday and the other pass will just activate at the moment you first tap on a bus or train after that first pass expires.

[Busjack]

If one wants to go into what Ventra actually means for fares, look at the August Pace Minutes, indicating such things as the need to invent a 30 day Premium (BOS) Pass, or a transfer policy that allows free transfers between small city routes, and whether they want to sign onto Ventra tickets with the 50 cent surcharge.

Note also that that they said that bank cards are for full fare, but not that they wouldn't come with transfers.

In any event, the thought of a universal fare system* is even less furthered by Ventra.

______

*In the sense suggested by BusHunter when he questioned having both a 7 Day CTA and 7 Day CTA/Pace pass.

[BusHunter]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

[Busjack]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

On the first, the question is whether one chooses an automatic Ventra option. One would have to compare that to how Chicago Cards and Chicago Card Pluses are reloaded, except I suppose one could say that there is transit value on a Ventra card that could be converted to a pass. I doubt, though, without explicitly buying a pass, but sw could tell us about his experience.

On the latter, cash fares are still to be accepted on buses (note my prior comment that I might as well drop 9 quarters than let it read my bank card), but since they are not now accepted on the L, you would need a Ventra Card or the $3 Ventra Ticket to get through the turnstile.

There were the reports about negative balances on student Ventra cards, but if the card is not linked to your checking account, I don't see how Ventra gets a chargeback, other than saying you have no value after you put in $2 the next time you reload at a vending machine or Jewel terminal.

[jajuan]

If one wants to go into what Ventra actually means for fares, look at the August Pace Minutes, indicating such things as the need to invent a 30 day Premium (BOS) Pass, or a transfer policy that allows free transfers between small city routes, and whether they want to sign onto Ventra tickets with the 50 cent surcharge.

Note also that that they said that bank cards are for full fare, but not that they wouldn't come with transfers.

In any event, the thought of a universal fare system* is even less furthered by Ventra.

______

*In the sense suggested by BusHunter when he questioned having both a 7 Day CTA and 7 Day CTA/Pace pass.

As I understood the minutes, the new pass category they were considering were for 755, 855 and the other Pace routes "that go to other popular attractions" which I read to be Wrigley Field expresses, Soldier Field expresses, etc. The 755 and 855 are premium fares and the sports field, Great America, etc express routes are also otherwise more than regular standard fares, so it sounds like they're trying to come up with an answer for those routes to accommodate transitioning over to Ventra. The other issue it sounded like they were trying to answer were how to accommodate the current fare structure of on some routes there is what Pace calls a local fare with free transfers between routes in adjacent cities in the local fare zone.

On the first, the question is whether one chooses an automatic Ventra option. One would have to compare that to how Chicago Cards and Chicago Card Pluses are reloaded, except I suppose one could say that there is transit value on a Ventra card that could be converted to a pass. I doubt, though, without explicitly buying a pass, but sw could tell us about his experience.

On the latter, cash fares are still to be accepted on buses (note my prior comment that I might as well drop 9 quarters than let it read my bank card), but since they are not now accepted on the L, you would need a Ventra Card or the $3 Ventra Ticket to get through the turnstile.

There were the reports about negative balances on student Ventra cards, but if the card is not linked to your checking account, I don't see how Ventra gets a chargeback, other than saying you have no value after you put in $2 the next time you reload at a vending machine or Jewel terminal.

Ventra doesn't allow negative balances, so if you are one of those who's brave enough to have Ventra linked to your checking account and your transit value drops to a value less than the applicable fare or to zero, then your checking account is going to get charged with a PAYG fare since that's the next step in the hierarchy of what to look for to register a valid fare.

[Busjack]

...

Ventra doesn't allow negative balances, so if you are one of those who's brave enough to have Ventra linked to your checking account and your transit value drops to a value less than the applicable fare or to zero, then your checking account is going to get charged with a PAYG fare since that's the next step in the hierarchy of what to look for to register a valid fare.

Do you have a source for that one, as up to now PAYG referred to using a bank card directly, which I assume also means a sap who has no transit balance, but a Ventra prepaid debit card?

As far as I know, it didn't refer to have a connection to reload the transit account when short or to pay for a monthly pass each month.

[jajuan]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

That will get you the red 'Stop' signal on the Ventra reader if a pass expires and you don't have extra money stored on the card. Since Busjack brought up sw as an example of a pass holder under Ventra, he's supposed to have 168 hours after his first tap of his Ventra card using the 7-day pass. Ventra does show you a listing of the bus and rail routes you've ridden with the card and what fare media your fare was charged against under your card's transaction history. In the case of passes, once you tap your card to activate a pass, your Pass column shows you the dates valid for the pass. I'll use myself as an example since I also loaded my Ventra card with a 7 day pass. I activated my own pass at 11:14 PM last Sunday. So if the current pass doesn't stay active up the full time and was kicked off before 11:14 PM this coming Sunday night then I should in theory be able see there is a problem. If I loaded another pass, that pass should stay 'In Queue' until at least that time. And trust me I've been watching my transit account with the same diligence with which I'm watching my accounts with my bank since this is new and they've had reported bugs to work through. So far though everything has been running smoothly with my card I'm glad to say.

[jajuan]

Do you have a source for that one, as up to now PAYG referred to using a bank card directly, which I assume also means a sap who has no transit balance, but a Ventra prepaid debit card?

As far as I know, it didn't refer to have a connection to reload the transit account when short or to pay for a monthly pass each month.

The source is the Ventra site under the terms and conditions. They explicitly say no negative balances are allowed on a transit account so being charged as a PAYG is what's theoretically supposed to happen if they linked their transit account to their checking account which can only be done as far as I know by registering your own debit card (which currently still isn't available) and the transit value dropped to either to zero or less than a Pace or CTA standard fare, I suppose it would happen also if they linked it with the prepaid debit account (which I'm not activating).

[Busjack]

The source is the Ventra site under the terms and conditions. They explicitly say no negative balances are allowed on a transit account so being charged as a PAYG is what's theoretically supposed to happen if they linked their transit account to their checking account which can only be done as far as I know by registering your own debit card (which currently still isn't available) and the transit value dropped to either to zero or less than a Pace or CTA standard fare, I suppose it would happen also if they linked it with the prepaid debit account (which I'm not activating).

I was referring to whether there is something analogous to the online fare reloading which was the distinguishing feature of the outgoing Chicago Card Plus. Maybe I erred in that that is linked to a credit card number.

[jajuan]

I was referring to whether there is something analogous to the online fare reloading which was the distinguishing feature of the outgoing Chicago Card Plus. Maybe I erred in that that is linked to a credit card number.

Okay, I might have misread your original question. Sorry. They do. You input which credit card you wish to use, and under both the transit value and the loaded pass columns you can choose to directly reload either feature yourself or turn on the automatic reload feature for either one. For the transit value if you set automatic reloads, you designate what set value you wish to automatically reload between a minimum of $20 up to a max of $100 (they have a sliding scale you move between those two amounts to the amount you wish to select). If your transit value falls below a $10 threshold like on CCP, your credit card is charged the amount you selected for the automatic reload and your transit value gets loaded for that amount. On the pass side, if you choose automatic reloads your credit card is hit for the price of the pass you set for automatic reload three business days before the pass is set to expire with the reloaded pass becoming active upon tapping after the previous one expires. Seeing that Chicago Card Plus had monthly passes reloaded on the 27th day of a current pass, yes the reload features on Ventra are quite similar. I got that info from the terms and conditions under the "Autoloading a Transit Account" section.

Edited September 18, 2013 by jajuan