Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[Busjack]

Coincidence for the $2.25. ..

They also did issue me a new farecard for the expired fare card for $2.25 at CTQ HQ.

CTA's, and Ventra's advice on Chicago Card was to "give it to a friend in Chicago" since I won't be back until next summer. Well I really have none, so I am stuck with an extra $2.25. I am surprised they encourage transferability when they can be registered to an individual.

Apparently you lucked out on getting the new fare card, but we discussed that before.

The registration is essentially if it is lost or stolen. Unlike, say, Metra with monthlies (which indicate male and female), CTA doesn't care who spends loaded cash fares. The mag stripe cards said that you could stick them in the same machine 7 times for 7 persons' fares on one trip.

However, your initial post indicates why CTA said to spend existing media down, and probably indicates that there will be a lot of forfeitures from old cards, probably way more from when they enforced that value on expired cards was forfeited.

[BusHunter]

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

[Amtrak41]

I doubt they will do anything with a mailed in CC if value is less than $5.

If there is a lot of complaints next March, perhaps they will extend trade-in period to go into the summer. I don't see the big rush to forfeit people's value on old media.

[Busjack]

...

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. ...

Any card on the gift card rack says it has to be activated before it is valid.

In this case, the only potential loss would be if someone tried to register a stolen card and get the $5 deposit back, but I'm sure that at that point the card would be reported as stolen, or there wouldn't be a proper trail of the type sw said was necessary, with the PLUs and a customer receipt being generated at the terminal. Obviously, a card stolen off the rack would have no stored value, as it has to be added on purchase [update: and not even the $5 to move to the transit account].

I suppose that the reason one has to go to the customer service desk is that the transaction is complicated, sort of like buying an IPass at Jewel.

[sw4400]

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

Ventra Cards are sold only at the Service Desk at Jewel. I know from doing one transaction of adding a dollar amount($10) to a Ventra Card, we login to the Ventra Machine, select the add value option and select $10. I swipe the Ventra Card through the machine and it then prints two receipts(one customer, one merchant). Then we sign on to the register and use the designated PLU for Ventra for adding value. Then we tell the customer the total(in this case $10). They pay with whatever tender they choose through the register, when the receipt prints completing the tender, they get that and we print a copy of the transaction receipt and staple it to the merchant copy of the Ventra receipt.

This doesn't answer yet about the passes, but I'm going to guess it's very similar... say Kevin comes to my store and wants a 7-Day CTA pass on his Ventra card. I login to the Ventra Machine and there should be an add pass option. I find and select CTA 7-Day Pass and swipe his card. Two receipts will print from the machine(customer, merchant). I sign on to the register and use whatever designated PLU is for the CTA 7-Day Pass(maybe it's the old one or maybe a new one since it's done on a Ventra Card now). Whatever the case I put that in, tell him his total and he pays in whatever tender he chooses through the register. He gets his sale receipt from the register along with his customer receipt from the Ventra Machine. I make a copy of his receipt from the register and staple it to the merchant copy from the Ventra Machine and store it in the register. Sale complete.

[jajuan]

Today's award for clueless reporting goes to FOX 32's Joanie Lum. She informs us that with Ventra "you don't have to use a token" and that you just "tap it, apparently." Yes, apparently.

This is followed by looping years-old file footage of people paying at turnstiles with magnetic cards, long before Ventra machines were installed.

You stay classy, FOX Chicago.

Wow.

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

And yes the cards are stored only at the service desk inside the Jewel stores. They are NOT stored on any of the gift card racks. Thus yes the transaction for a Ventra card purchase is done only at the service desks just like with the magnetic stripe cards which they will be replacing. One of the girls that I know who works at a Jewel service desk was telling me this morning that a CTA rep was out yesterday to make sure the mini Ventra machine at the service desk was working properly for today's rollout.

[jajuan]

Ventra Cards are sold only at the Service Desk at Jewel. I know from doing one transaction of adding a dollar amount($10) to a Ventra Card, we login to the Ventra Machine, select the add value option and select $10. I swipe the Ventra Card through the machine and it then prints two receipts(one customer, one merchant). Then we sign on to the register and use the designated PLU for Ventra for adding value. Then we tell the customer the total(in this case $10). They pay with whatever tender they choose through the register, when the receipt prints completing the tender, they get that and we print a copy of the transaction receipt and staple it to the merchant copy of the Ventra receipt.

This doesn't answer yet about the passes, but I'm going to guess it's very similar... say Kevin comes to my store and wants a 7-Day CTA pass on his Ventra card. I login to the Ventra Machine and there should be an add pass option. I find and select CTA 7-Day Pass and swipe his card. Two receipts will print from the machine(customer, merchant). I sign on to the register and use whatever designated PLU is for the CTA 7-Day Pass(maybe it's the old one or maybe a new one since it's done on a Ventra Card now). Whatever the case I put that in, tell him his total and he pays in whatever tender he chooses through the register. He gets his sale receipt from the register along with his customer receipt from the Ventra Machine. I make a copy of his receipt from the register and staple it to the merchant copy from the Ventra Machine and store it in the register. Sale complete.

The girl I mentioned in my post before I realized you were answering the same question mentioned to me that when a service desk person signs onto the machine it shows options for the passes that can be loaded at Jewel and the add value option that you mentioned.

[Busjack]

The WGN Noon News had a report where the reporter said that she was hanging out at the Logan Square station and the only glitch was someone with a student card had a negative balance, and loaded more money at the vending machine, but it didn't show up at the turnstile. They told him to wait 5 minutes, and he waited 10, but it still didn't work, so he told them he had to get to school and they let them through.

This sounded independent from the student card problem reported a week ago, but there sure seems to be a problem if money deposited into a vending machine isn't immediately credited.

[BusHunter]

Like i said I've seen people getting on the CTA bus with cards that have nothing on them even though they did. CTA will most likely waive them through should they have that problem, but Pace is a whole other issue. Pace is really strict on farebox issues and in some cases will probably refuse service to the rider and go as far as call the police on a legitimate rider. That's one reason why Ventra should offer receipts/e- receipts on purchases at the machines. At least you do have some proof you did purchase something. BTW, someone told me that they already have a sign on farebox express machines giving a date as far as there removal from the stations, so i guess the transition has begun.

[owine]

At Clark/Division this morning, the one Ventra machine in the station was not yet in service.

[Busjack]

In the meantime, Hilkevitch reports more screw ups and deception, including that Ventra takes a $5 authorization off a bank card even though it is a $2.25 fare. Supposedly some gas pumps have stickers that they take a set authorization first, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for Ventra to do so.

Somebody who thinks they are taking a $2.75 trip (I ride and 2 transfers) apparently is going to be charged $6.75, but is going to get $15 in holds against their bank card. Now, once I got a call from a credit card company when Circuit City ran an $1100 authorization twice, but I bet people at the margins are not going to be happy that they have all sorts of holds on their accounts, or maybe the 3rd ping in a row will again tell the issuer that the car appears stolen and result in it being deactivated.

Meantime, Kevin of the CTA Tattler complains that purchasing passes on the website is not straightforward.

Again, I realize that this is a phased introduction, but what is tomorrow's mess up gonna be?

[MetroShadow]

Again, I realize that this is a phased introduction, but what is tomorrow's mess up gonna be?

Free Monthly Passes for everyone?! ("You get a monthly pass, and YOU get a monthly pass!!!")

In all seriousness, this might be one of the most unstable growing pains in a lifetime...

[Busjack]

Free Monthly Passes for everyone?! ("You get a monthly pass, and YOU get a monthly pass!!!")

....

I don't think Oprah runs the CTA. If anything, it would be the opposite, i.e. the forfeitures such as described in the article, such as Colette complaining about Pace 10 ride tickets, presumably.

[trigger]

From the terms and Conditions:

Additional information regarding PAYG travel and charges:

• 
  Your credit or debit card may be authorized for up to $5.00 when you
  first tap it at a Ventra fare reader even though the actual fare is
  less. This is a pre-authorization process; you will only be charged the
  actual fare. Multiple rides using PAYG may be aggregated prior to being
  charged to your credit or debit card account.

Generally, credit card fees are a fixed amount per transaction plus a percentage of the transaction amount. For example, 20 cents plus 2.4% of the transaction amount. The CTA is trying to minimize the credit card fees it pays by combining several payments into just one charge that is submitted to the credit card company. So it obtains an authorization that covers two typical rides. If the customer takes just one ride, the authorization will be too much, if the customer takes three rides, the $5 authorization will not be enough. In any case, the $5 authorization is just temporary and the actual amount is charged.

By the way, there is no combination of three rides with transfers on the CTA/Pace that comes to $2.75. The only possible fares for three rides are $2.00 (if the first ride is on Pace), $2.25 (if the first ride is a CTA bus), $2.50 (if the first ride is a CTA train), $5.25 (if the first ride is at O'Hare). Remember that the second transfer is free.

[Busjack]

From the terms and Conditions:

Additional information regarding PAYG travel and charges:

...

Anything on the turnstile saying that trigger (compared to what I said about the gas pump) or how long did it take you to research that?

Is the only way to use Ventra to read the website for a half an hour? With a browser at 300% magnification?

P.S. I'll amend the $2.75 to $2.50, but it sure isn't the $6.75 eventual charge or even $10 brick you suggest. And if CTA/Cubic/First Data can keep track of that someone hasn't rung up $5 yet, it could have kept track that the second tap should be charged only as a transfer.

As I said before, it is a deceptive practice if it is not disclosed at the point of the transaction. In addition, look back to my Circuit City comment about the issuer treating the card as stolen, which happened in my case.

[jajuan]

Instead of beating this dead horse yet again, I think it's probably safe to say you'd be better served just buying an actual Ventra card than tapping your own credit or debit card to pay your fare if you're going to be one of those who doesn't wait until the November 15th date that CTA and Pace stop selling magnetic strip cards to opt into Ventra. From what I see of what fees apply on the actual Ventra Card and how folks can use them to minimize being hit with fees, then no you don't have to read the Ventra website for half an hour to use Ventra. And while we're on the topic of growing pains, I have to ask was implementation of the Chicago Card, that some have been questioning why get rid of, so error free at the beginning of its use? Plus didn't some of you guys communicate one way or another that you didn't trust using your credit or debit cards to pay directly? Also I kind of question why anyone would want to use either directly anyway given recent concerns about crime on the CTA relating to theft of IPhones, other smartphones, and other electronic gadgets.

[Busjack]

Instead of beating this dead horse yet again, I think it's probably safe to say you'd be better served just buying an actual Ventra card than tapping your own credit or debit card to pay your fare if you're going to be one of those who doesn't wait until the November 15th date that CTA and Pace stop selling magnetic strip cards to opt into Ventra. From what I see of what fees apply on the actual Ventra Card and how folks can use them to minimize being hit with fees, then no you don't have to read the Ventra website for half an hour to use Ventra. And while we're on the topic of growing pains, I have to ask was implementation of the Chicago Card, that some have been questioning why get rid of, so error free at the beginning of its use? Plus didn't some of you guys communicate one way or another that you didn't trust using your credit or debit cards to pay directly? Also I kind of question why anyone would want to use either directly anyway given recent concerns about crime on the CTA relating to theft of IPhones, other smartphones, and other electronic gadgets.

The above may be true, but certainly guts any of the rationale of the open fare system.

I said on the CTA Tattler

It looks like CTA/Cubic/First Data is doing enough to screw people using an open fare option that that soon will be practically dead, sort of like how the debit card option will become so except for the extremely stupid or desperate.

Basically, except to get through an L turnstile at $2.25 instead of $3.00 using the Ventra Ticket (assuming that's your only ride in 2 hours), or willing to be screwed in other scenarios, the open fare option does not have any benefit. I said earlier I would not register my bank card with CTA, given who knows what they would do with that information.

[Kevin]

I still have not received my Ventra card, 12 business days after I was told it would arrive in 7-10 business days. I'd register my own card instead, but that's still "coming soon" a day after it was supposed to be available.

[Busjack]

I still have not received my Ventra card, 12 business days after I was told it would arrive in 7-10 business days. I'd register my own card instead, but that's still "coming soon" a day after it was supposed to be available.

They were stewing over that on the CTA Tattler today too. Speculation aside on whether Olaf is someone else, it seems like if they aren't going to transfer balances automatically it doesn't matter whether you wait for one or see one of sw's coworkers at Jewel, or just wait. It sounds like that in any event, you'll have to go to HQ or a neighborhood park on the given day to transfer your balance.

[Amtrak41]

< Supposedly some gas pumps have stickers that they take a set authorization first, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for Ventra to do so. >

My experience is that gas stations do a temp authorization for $1. No excuse for Ventra to be jack-asses.

Pricey hotel chains may also do a ridiculous amounts unrelated to your room charge.

< In any case, the $5 authorization is just temporary and the actual amount is charged. >

It may not make much difference, but your FICO at any given moment ingests the $5 temp authorization as counting toward your debt/credit ratio. If your score would otherwise be 751, and this takes it down to 749, and you happen to be asking for loan in that 2 day period, you are down 1 notch in FICO's gradebook.

[jtrosario]

I take back some of my concerns about Ventra based on the CTA release here:

http://www.transitchicago.com/ventrabenefits/#tc

New cards will have more robust “passback” features—up to seven people can share the same card and with Ventra, not everyone will need to start riding at the same place (you can meet up with someone on the way and pay for them with your card). You can even ask the driver or station attendant to let you pay a reduced fare for a qualifying rider travelling with you.

Former concern 1: My qualifying reduced fare is my 7-11 child. Done.

Former concern 2: Passback for 4 people in my family, including a reduced fare child. Done.

Former concern 3: More places to load value - I'm in the middle ring suburbs and NOT having to drive to a transit station to load up (the reduced fare card) will be much more convenient. Done.

Outstanding Concerns:

I still have 3 x 0.85 reduced cards to use up, they need to have vaule ADDED to use even once and we don't travel often - so the deadline of having machines available applies to these cards. The "transfer balances to Ventra" option requires a MINIMUM of $5.00 stored on the card to transfer over. WT?? What if the cards have less than $5.00 and people(in general) don't add enough to "qualify" for a transfer to a Ventra card? Do they lose the stored value forever, like the day passes supposedly will? Is CTA (and Ventra by NOT accepting such) just writing off a payable where the purchasers of these cards are stuck with lost monies by not qualifying with enough stored value or not using their passes by a newer/earlier arbitrary expiration date? (either machines being removed or day passes not being accepted)

Also, received the email about replacing the Chicago Card Plus weeks ago, still no Ventra card. I'll just be patient for now as others are doing. Maybe it shows up in the mail later. Maybe I just get one on my own or show up at one of the parks to transfer over(and I'll bring my "under $5" reduced fare cards to the park, too, to see if they are accepted as well)

P.S. For me the 3 x 0.85 doesn't matter(except in principle). For others with a low income, this could be a serious issue. The transfer over to Ventra should not be an excercise in robbing the poor and/or uninformed.

P.P.S. I didn't want multiple reduced cards for one child. CTA recently gave me 5 reduced cards to replace 2 expired reduced cards. Since then, added just enough to 2 of them(exact change please-for the machine) for a day trip to pay for one child. Still have 3 left. This is one reason why I'm actually pleased about the resolution to my former concerns.

[trigger]

Starting in January and lasting through March, as long as the cards are unexpired, you will be able to mail them to the Ventra service center and have them credited to a registered Ventra Card. The $5 limit does not apply when the mail-in process starts.

Your other choice is to buy another card (or add value to a card you already have) to bring the total up to $5 and trade them in at one of the park events. Silly, I know. I have no idea why they set this limit. At the park events, the limit is 5 cards per person (bring friends or family if you need to or go to more than one park) and the COMBINED total of the cards being exchanged must be at least $5. The individual cards do not have to be $5. Again, I have no idea why.

This was announced in the following press release:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?Month=&Year=&Category=2&ArticleId=3205

I take back some of my concerns about Ventra based on the CTA release here:

http://www.transitchicago.com/ventrabenefits/#tc

Outstanding Concerns:

I still have 3 x 0.85 reduced cards to use up, they need to have vaule ADDED to use even once and we don't travel often - so the deadline of having machines available applies to these cards. The "transfer balances to Ventra" option requires a MINIMUM of $5.00 stored on the card to transfer over. WT?? What if the cards have less than $5.00 and people(in general) don't add enough to "qualify" for a transfer to a Ventra card? Do they lose the stored value forever, like the day passes supposedly will? Is CTA (and Ventra by NOT accepting such) just writing off a payable where the purchasers of these cards are stuck with lost monies by not qualifying with enough stored value or not using their passes by a newer/earlier arbitrary expiration date? (either machines being removed or day passes not being accepted)

[Kevin]

I said earlier I would not register my bank card with CTA, given who knows what they would do with that information.

From my understanding, registering your contactless bankcard is not required to avoid PAYG fares. You just need to add a pass or transit value at a vending machine. A registered bankcard with no associated pass or transit value is still subject to PAYG fares.

I used my unregistered bankcard (with no pass or value added) to pay for a couple of rides this morning since I didn't need a transfer. It worked fine, and my card was authorized for $5 on the first tap. No additional authorization was added for the second tap.

I'm dying to know the reason for the lack of transfers under PAYG. I can't think of a technical reason for this limitation, since they already keep track of your taps throughout the day before making the final charge. This is the extreme opposite of London's Oyster card, where daily fares are always capped at the price of a day pass.

[jtrosario]

...Your other choice is to buy another card (or add value to a card you already have) to bring the total up to $5 and trade them in at one of the park events. Silly, I know. I have no idea why they set this limit. At the park events, the limit is 5 cards per person (bring friends or family if you need to or go to more than one park) and the COMBINED total of the cards being exchanged must be at least $5. The individual cards do not have to be $5. Again, I have no idea why.

This was announced in the following press release:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?Month=&Year=&Category=2&ArticleId=3205

Thanks for the link, the 3 x $0.85 cards that I have left that I received from CTA HQ on Lake St (at the beginning of August 2013/and no they are NOT the current $1 cards) expire October 1 2013.

So it looks like I'll need to go to a park event BEFORE October. I'll first drive to a transit station, add $2.45 to one of the three cards and then bring my $0.85 + $0.85 + $3.30 cards to the event and have the $5.00 total transferred onto a Ventra card.

If I receive my (Chicago Card replacement)Ventra card in the mail, I might bring it over with me (before transferring over my Chicago Card Plus funds online) to see if they can use that as the destination Ventra card. Then I'll transfer the Chicago Card Plus funds over to that same Ventra card. Otherwise, I'll get the Ventra card at the park and try to transfer the Chicago Card Plus over to that one. Or if just plain not possible, I'll register the $5 Ventra card from the park in my wife's name, use it down to $0.00 first, and register the Ventra card replacement of my Chicago Card Plus in my name and start using it after the first Ventra card's balance is brought down to $0.00.

[soapbox on-again] I really feel as though the poor and/or uninformed are going to get robbed by this, even if it's for what I think is a small amount(per person-NOT total monies involved). What happens to those whose cards which expire after the vending machines are removed but before January 1st? This really needs to be reconsidered and acceptance of ALL magnetic cards which expire after November 15, 2013 SHOULD be accepted during the January to March time period. Also, who can possibly bring a card value down to exactly zero? These are monies that will be essentially STOLEN from those who don't use up their entire card value between now and December 15, with NO RECOURSE to add value to create a fare amount to HAVE THE ABILITY to bring their cards down to zero during that November 15th to December 15th time frame. Also those with day passes that expire after December 15th and whom didn't plan on using them before the day pass expiration dates(someone on this board mentioned 2014 expiration dates) are already being told they have NO RECOURSE except to "use it or lose it", even though when they were sold, the agreement was a 1 year expiration of those cards. [soapbox off]

[Amtrak41]

If one has a credit card in their pocket with the chip, such as from Chase, and was not registered to be a Ventra card, if it were to brush against a Ventra reader, would it deduct the fare from it anyway ?