Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[Busjack]

Would anyone expect a "new and improved" system to be slower than what they've been using for many years with the current Chicago Cards/Plus?...

If speeding up boarding (given such former efforts as the Go Lane) was supposed to be the objective, the answer has to be no.

[sw4400]

Now apparently you need to stand there for a few seconds holding the card in position. It doesn't make sense why it would be slower. And if they don't give you those specific instructions when they send or sell you a card, why would anyone expect the use of the card to be any different than before?

We should be able to do a quick tap, get a quick response, and go.

I agree, Rippler. But I've been observing the various Ventra Card holders that press and hold for three seconds and those that tap for one second or less and go. Those that hold get a "GO" unless there is an issue with the card(no pass, not enough fare). Those that tap rarely get the "GO". Most get the "STOP" and keep getting it until they hold it for three seconds.

You can make this into a rhyme or even a slogan to make people know how to properly use their Ventra Cards:

"Hold, you go. Tap, you come back".© sw4400

[owine]

Unlike what others have said, my transaction this morning was much faster on a reader updated with the "Tap Below" and "Processing" screens. From tap to processing was near instantaneous and maybe 3/4 of a second later I had the Go sign. Granted, I have been doing the tap and hold which is why I have had success paying my fares. I wonder if quick taps work better now.

[sw4400]

Unlike what others have said, my transaction this morning was much faster on a reader updated with the "Tap Below" and "Processing" screens. From tap to processing was near instantaneous and maybe 3/4 of a second later I had the Go sign. Granted, I have been doing the tap and hold which is why I have had success paying my fares. I wonder if quick taps work better now.

Not that I've seen. Kedzie Brown Line had those "Tap Below" and "Processing" screens. You still need to do the tap and hold.

I'll visualize it this way... when you put a Flash Drive or SD Card into your computer, it takes a few seconds to read and put the info on the screen. It takes the Ventra Readers a few seconds to bring up your Transit Balance and Unlimited-Ride Period Passes and deduct/use what is available. No computer or machine can process in a fraction of a second. Even Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus users tried this back in the day and I remember Bus Operators calling them back up to tap again.

[jajuan]

I'm one of those quick tappers and haven't really had problems to date.

[sw4400]

I'm one of those quick tappers and haven't really had problems to date.

You're lucky or you tap and keep it close enough until it says "GO". Every quick tapper I've seen on the buses or at rail stations get the "STOP" until they slow it down a bit.

Another example of going too fast here goes back to the Credit/Debit Cards at the store. Sometimes, customers swipe them so quickly through the reader that they say "Please Swipe Again". They always tell me it's the machine and hand it to me to try. I swipe it slower and it says "Processing".

[BiT]

Would anyone expect a "new and improved" system to be slower than what they've been using for many years with the current Chicago Cards/Plus? I sure wouldn't. Using my old card triggered a near instantaneous green "enter" when I quickly touched my card to the front of the turnstyle and kept moving, you didn't even have to stop for it, just keep walking through the turnstyle while you touched the card to the front.

Now apparently you need to stand there for a few seconds holding the card in position. It doesn't make sense why it would be slower. And if they don't give you those specific instructions when they send or sell you a card, why would anyone expect the use of the card to be any different than before?

We should be able to do a quick tap, get a quick response, and go.

The only thing missing on CC/CC Plus was the MasterCard logo- and that's why it was changed, period: the CTA gets 50% of all "fees" from making purchases with Ventra- look at Ventra's logo (CTA Pace and little Shopping Bag). hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going and why. That's probably why they made the announcement about no fare increases for next year- paid for by poor folks who can't pay otherwise.

[Amtrak41]

I don't know Chicago politics well enough to know if this is a dog and pony show to show they care, or something of use:

http://www.suntimes.com/23539960-761/aldermen-want-council-hearings-on-ctas-ventra-card-problems.html

[Busjack]

The only thing missing on CC/CC Plus was the MasterCard logo- and that's why it was changed, period: the CTA gets 50% of all "fees" from making purchases with Ventra- look at Ventra's logo (CTA Pace and little Shopping Bag). hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going and why. That's probably why they made the announcement about no fare increases for next year- paid for by poor folks who can't pay otherwise.

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

I don't know Chicago politics well enough to know if this is a dog and pony show to show they care, or something of use:

http://www.suntimes.com/23539960-761/aldermen-want-council-hearings-on-ctas-ventra-card-problems.html

Yes, that is Chicago dog and pony politics as usual. A couple of alderman who don't want to look like rubber stamps call a hearing on something over which the City Council does not have jurisdiction. Usually involves the schools, though. Especially Fioretti, who is a publicity hound (usually involving his unconstitutional acts, such as telling Felony Franks that they can't have a sign), and has so little clout that he got redistricted out of the council, except that isn't effective until 2015.

[jajuan]

I don't know Chicago politics well enough to know if this is a dog and pony show to show they care, or something of use:

http://www.suntimes.com/23539960-761/aldermen-want-council-hearings-on-ctas-ventra-card-problems.html

If it's real, which I doubt, it could be what lights the fire under CTA management's pants in not being so slow to react to problems that they and the Ventra contractor let balloon into these huge crises that didn't have to happen. For example the software tweak some of us noticed over the weekend and that I noticed appeared to cut down the number of riders needing or having the impulse to tap their cards multiple times could have come weeks ago. Or at the very least customers could have been given some form of assurance that software updates were being worked on to try to fix some of the problems. CTA management oversight on Ventra having enough phone operators on hand could have been done weeks ago.

The one alderman, Alderman Fioretti of Chicago's 2nd Ward lends more evidence to the possibility as you alluded to that it may in part be political posturing as Fioretti has been touted by some local news circles as being a possible challenger against Mayor Emanuel in the next mayoral election campaigns coming in the next year and a half.

Whether real or not, just having the local news reporting that the issues have come to the attention of some on the City Council still serves to put even more of the population's focus on the problems that cropped up in the rollout and sends a signal to CTA management to get on the ball in fixing the problems since it potentially becomes a shot to Emanuel's ego in having aldermen calling for council hearings on how this rollout is being handled even though as pointed out they don't have the jurisdiction to do anything given CTA's municipal corporation status.

[BiT]

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

Yes, that is Chicago dog and pony politics as usual. A couple of alderman who don't want to look like rubber stamps call a hearing on something over which the City Council does not have jurisdiction. Usually involves the schools, though. Especially Fioretti, who is a publicity hound (usually involving his unconstitutional acts, such as telling Felony Franks that they can't have a sign), and has so little clout that he got redistricted out of the council, except that isn't effective until 2015.

That's about 8 months old news.

Besides that, CTA claimed that Cubic wouldn't supply the old chips.

Sorry to be so behind the times. That's all for me.

[Busjack]

If it's real, which I doubt, it could be what lights the fire under CTA management's pants in not being so slow to react to problems that they and the Ventra contractor let balloon into these huge crises that didn't have to happen...

Apparently it was enough to have Claypool announce that he is going before the City Club of Chicago for another dog and pony show to say some gibberish. Tribune. Also, that article says that it has been 3 weeks since Claypool told Cubic to beef up its customer service staff, but the result is not noticeable on the phone.

What might be the issue is that this continuing mess is overcoming Emanuel's talking point that he personally got the Red Line project done on time.

[jajuan]

Apparently it was enough to have Claypool announce that he is going before the City Club of Chicago for another dog and pony show to say some gibberish. Tribune. Also, that article says that it has been 3 weeks since Claypool told Cubic to beef up its customer service staff, but the result is not noticeable on the phone.

What might be the issue is that this continuing mess is overcoming Emanuel's talking point that he personally got the Red Line project done on time.

WGN's morning broadcast about this story also mentioned that many of whom still have the ability to stave off transitioning to a Ventra card have said they weren't going to do so until fixes, that come for what should have been minor glitches had CTA not dragged its feet on acknowledging there were problems, are noticeable improvements. So you are likely on to something on that front.

[Busjack]

WGN's morning broadcast about this story also mentioned that many of whom still have the ability to stave off transitioning to a Ventra card have said they weren't going to do so until fixes, that come for what should have been minor glitches had CTA not dragged its feet on acknowledging there were problems, are noticeable improvements. So you are likely on to something on that front.

The only thing likely is that the Tribune story was attributed to a "City Hall spokesman," rather than CTA spokespeople saying how many registrations and taps there have already been.

[owine]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

[jajuan]

The only thing likely is that the Tribune story was attributed to a "City Hall spokesman," rather than CTA spokespeople saying how many registrations and taps there have already been.

Actually WGN's reporter relaying the story was situated at Roosevelt and State. They did mention CTA's talking point that 50% of riders now have a Ventra card with registered accounts, but many of their interviews of folks who said they weren't switching for the time being came from that spot and other locations close to the now rebuilt Dan Ryan Red Line segment. That's why I was saying you were likely right that this might be overrunning Emanuel's talking point that he got the Dan Ryan L rebuilt.

[Busjack]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

I'm not sure that you have something independent, as the headline on the RedEye page just links to a copy of the Hilkevitch story I cited above.

Both have the same last paragraph, but I am not sure how much to read into it (i.e. have the Nov. 15 deadlines been rescinded, after CTA first said they would not be extended)?

[jajuan]

Tracy Swartz is saying that the CTA will keep accepting all payment types until further notice. Smart move given the fact that despite what has been said over and over, many of the cards have not even been mailed yet alone received.

WGN reported the same this morning with CTA also saying that the timeline for full transition is still going forward. That only leaves confusion as to whether the November 15th deadline for more transitioning will be pushed back as the WGN reporter did bring up that one at the end of her report.

[owine]

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397750807212216320'">Direct Link to Tweet

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397757849306013696'">Direct Link to Tweet

https://twitter.com/tracyswartz/status/397767665919344641'">Direct Link to Tweet

[BusHunter]

Yeah maybe they could get by with ventra as a pass, but as a pay as you go transit card this card is terrible. They just saved themselves a big headache. So I guess this means that the farebox configuration will not change for now and they will still have one transit card machine per rail station. The problem with the double charging must not be fixable without a total reprogram of the system. I know the processing screen does help commuters, they now have a little more direction in whether they tap or not, but it doesn't stop the stop screen from wrongly occuring. Fix that and they have a workable card.

[Busjack]

owine: Thanks for the tweets. I will propagate them elsewhere.

[jajuan]

Yeah maybe they could get by with ventra as a pass, but as a pay as you go transit card this card is terrible. They just saved themselves a big headache. So I guess this means that the farebox configuration will not change for now and they will still have one transit card machine per rail station. The problem with the double charging must not be fixable without a total reprogram of the system. I know the processing screen does help commuters, they now have a little more direction in whether they tap or not, but it doesn't stop the stop screen from wrongly occuring. Fix that and they have a workable card.

The stop screen in and of itself doesn't automatically mean a double charge hit is occurring otherwise I would have noticed passbacks on my card. But you are correct that they do have to get the double charging problem happening with some of the passengers out there fixed.

[Busjack]

Updated Tribune story, saying what the metrics will be until Cubic gets paid and the deadlines kick in, including that readers have to process transactions in 2.5 seconds, 99% of the time.

[BusHunter]

The stop screen in and of itself doesn't automatically mean a double charge hit is occurring otherwise I would have noticed passbacks on my card. But you are correct that they do have to get the double charging problem happening with some of the passengers out there fixed.

Yeah but it's like gambling. Half the time your losing money.

[jajuan]

Yeah but it's like gambling. Half the time your losing money.

Because of whatever fault in the original software on the readers causing the reader to register a multiple charge with some cards. Not because of the stop screen on its own