Random Pace

[Pace831]

4 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

New [Shuttle Bug] Route starts with the Summer Pick: 638

Looking through the passenger notices, the full list of summer pick changes is:

• 223 - more Sunday service
• 308 - schedule changes
• 311 - later evening service and schedule changes
• 348 - routing change
• 410/411 - terminal location change
• 504 - later evening service*
• 524 - new service to Dreyer Clinic
• 625 - morning service from MD-N Lake Forest Station discontinued**
• 631 - later evening service
• 638 - new route
• 722 & others - DuPage Modernization

*This route has been expanding a lot over the past few years.

**Is it even worth still stopping there in the evening?

[Busjack]

7 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Is it even worth still stopping there in the evening?

Probably not. But the usual pattern has been to stop at the UPN station first, then double back to the MDN station, except if it is empty it doesn't. So, I agree I don't see the point.

[Busjack]

On 6/3/2016 at 8:40 PM, Pace831 said:

Looking through the passenger notices, the full list of summer pick changes is:

More coming up:

• Some 272 trips no longer via Barclay.
• 421 posted stops only.
• 565 Seasonal  Six Flags Great America trips. Do not go to Gurnee Mills or CLC

[Pace831]

11 hours ago, Busjack said:

Some 272 trips no longer via Barclay.

So they're changing rush hour service but keeping off-peak the way it is. I guess "improve on-time performance" is the real reason for that. If it was "low ridership", they would have done the opposite and made Barclay trips rush only.

11 hours ago, Busjack said:

565 Seasonal  Six Flags Great America trips. Do not go to Gurnee Mills or CLC

All the G's and B's and C's and everything else on the timetable now hurts my eyes to look at.

[Busjack]

21 hours ago, Pace831 said:

So they're changing rush hour service but keeping off-peak the way it is. I guess "improve on-time performance" is the real reason for that. If it was "low ridership", they would have done the opposite and made Barclay trips rush only.

What seems obvious to me is that the office parks on Barclay Blvd. should be the traffic generator, but because the trips cut from there are am SB and pm NB, folk from the Vernon Hills and Libertyville area don't work on Barclay Blvd. (or take the bus there).

See the first 2 bullet points in the passenger notice.

The 4th bullet point is the only one on improving running times. I still wonder if part of the running time issue is that it is interlined with 574 and 572. Comparing the two schedules, buses leave Golf Mill :04 to :10 later 

[Busjack]

Also another trip on 631.

[Pace831]

58 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Also another trip on 631.

I mentioned that one but called it "later evening service". Also:

- 543/803: routing change to serve relocated Walmart (not related to summer pick, effective June 22)

-888: Bus stop moves from AT&T campus to street.

[Busjack]

Sort of. I saw a UL (Underwriters' Labs) cutaway bus heading to the Metra station. Wonder if it is the world's safest bus.

[Busjack]

In the continuing saga of the 422 at Golf Mill, 2768 was parked there tonight. The strange thing was that the back sign (usually just for the number) appeared programmed for a full destination sign. There were 2 lines, but they weren't very legible.

[Busjack]

On 12/21/2015 at 3:00 PM, strictures said:

I wish they'd change all the signs & remove the Westfield name. No one here goes to Westfield, they go Old Orchard, Hawthorn, etc.

On the North buses, sign now is 272 Hawthorn (flip) 272 Mall.

[BusHunter]

#6375 at west now has a cubs wrap so it seems like most buses going to Wrigley are the newer ones.

[Busjack]

On 7/1/2016 at 10:06 PM, Busjack said:

On the North buses, sign now is 272 Hawthorn (flip) 272 Mall.

 And on the same note, this passenger notice on 574:

"Route 574 will not have any service changes at this time; however, the route name has been changed."

Existing pdf is CLC - WESTFIELD HAWTHORN, while the (new) route description is "CLC - Hawthorn Mall"

[Pace831]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 0:52 PM, Busjack said:

 And on the same note, this passenger notice on 574:

"Route 574 will not have any service changes at this time; however, the route name has been changed."

Existing pdf is CLC - WESTFIELD HAWTHORN, while the (new) route description is "CLC - Hawthorn Mall"

There were passenger notices for "timetable clarifications" that took effect today on routes 359, 383, 386, 390, 501, 561, 569, 571, 574, and 626. Some of these had route name changes like the one you pointed out for 574. The other trend was assigning letters to "trip variants". For example, the 383 trips to Rivercrest are now called R trips. Previously in this thread I mentioned Z trips on route 504. At the time, it seemed like they were trying to help communicate that service on that part of the route was being reduced, but now it looks like they are trying to spread that format to other routes.

[Busjack]

33 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

For example, the 383 trips to Rivercrest are now called R trips. Previously in this thread I mentioned Z trips on route 504. At the time, it seemed like they were trying to help communicate that service on that part of the route was being reduced, but now it looks like they are trying to spread that format to other routes.

The bus stop sign at Milwaukee and Greenwood has 412-"H" trips which I assume refers to Huber.

Generally speaking, the footnotes in the schedules are confusing, but maybe Pace is trying to standardize them and put them on the bus stop signs.

[Pace831]

5 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Generally speaking, the footnotes in the schedules are confusing, but maybe Pace is trying to standardize them and put them on the bus stop signs.

That's the only thing that makes sense. On the 501 schedule, there is a timepoint at Shorewood Jewel, where every trip going there has a footnote "W - Trip serves Shorewood Jewel". Duh. Now if there was a bus stop sign at that location that said "501 W Trips", the new schedule would actually be logical.

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

That's the only thing that makes sense. On the 501 schedule, there is a timepoint at Shorewood Jewel, where every trip going there has a footnote "W - Trip serves Shorewood Jewel". Duh. Now if there was a bus stop sign at that location that said "501 W Trips", the new schedule would actually be logical.

That definitely is an example that needs "clarification." First I question the need for a legend, for, unlike the 412-H I mentioned above, which has a variant in the middle of the route, the bus goes to one of two terminals, either Shorewood Jewel or Rock Creek. If you are waiting at one of the branches, you should know that a bus comes once an hour. Secondly, W makes little sense; but maybe S is taken for school trips, and J for Jewel is taken for Joliet Jr. College.

[Pace831]

8 minutes ago, Busjack said:

That definitely is an example that needs "clarification." First I question the need for a legend, for, unlike the 412-H I mentioned above, which has a variant in the middle of the route, the bus goes to one of two terminals, either Shorewood Jewel or Rock Creek. If you are waiting at one of the branches, you should know that a bus comes once an hour. Secondly, W makes little sense; but maybe S is taken for school trips, and J for Jewel is taken for Joliet Jr. College.

My only guess is "W" stands for "west". "X" probably means "no service" for the trips that do not serve JJC on Saturday.

As an aside, my thoughts on route 501. I think the X trips should be eliminated and they should stop at JJC all day on Saturday. They're missing out on potential ridership by bypassing the stops at the college and student residences. I realize the ridership gain would probably only be in the single digits, but it's an improvement over the current service and wouldn't require a cost increase. I always thought certain bus stop signs in that area were confusing by not mentioning "Saturday Only". Maybe now they will change them. Also, the number of people who get on/off in Shorewood is very low. People don't use 501 to get to Shorewood Jewel, because there is another Jewel along the route at Jefferson/Midland where the bus comes every 30 minutes. The route isn't convenient for Shorewood residents either because the schedule is poorly coordinated with Metra and other Pace routes at the downtown Joliet transfer area. The JJC trips, on the other hand, can be standing room only, due to much higher ridership on the JJC branch and better schedule coordination. I think the Shorewood variant should be eliminated and all the buses go to JJC instead. This would help relieve crowding and maybe encourage more students to ride the bus. My prediction is they will do only that once a route 59 bus is implemented that far south, whenever that may be. In fact, JJC would be a good endpoint for the route 59 bus. I wonder if that change were made now, if the Shorewood Jewel stop could be served by the West Joliet Call-n-ride, or if it is too far outside the boundaries.

[Busjack]

31 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

People don't use 501 to get to Shorewood Jewel,

That's probably only there because they got permission to use it as a turnaround. Whether there is other ridership on the branch, I don't know. On the other hand your JCC branch indicates that maybe Heritage should not have gotten rid of all of its 40' buses.

 

34 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

 once a route 59 bus is implemented that far south, whenever that may be. In fact, JJC would be a good endpoint for the route 59 bus

In that the Aurora portion was mostly cancelled, I wouldn't bet on that. There was also supposed to be a Weber Rd. flex bus between Joliet and Naperville as part of the last restructuring, but that never happened.

[Pace831]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:34 PM, Busjack said:

That's probably only there because they got permission to use it as a turnaround.

That's true..

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:34 PM, Busjack said:

Whether there is other ridership on the branch, I don't know.

There's a cemetery, small airport, Ford dealership, McDonalds, Burger King, a couple seedy bars, hotels, gas stations, forest preserve, and trailer park. The shopping center where Jewel is has a salon, pizza joint, auto parts store, dental office, and animal hospital. I wouldn't bet that daily ridership on the branch is greater than 10-12. Usually when I ride it or see it pass by it only has 4-5 people on it, and most of them are going to the main part of the route along Jefferson. I've never actually taken it all the way to Shorewood, so I'll have to check that out sometime. The fact that the last bus to Shorewood from Joliet is at 4:40 PM might also be a factor in low ridership, but not a major one.

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:34 PM, Busjack said:

On the other hand your JCC branch indicates that maybe Heritage should not have gotten rid of all of its 40' buses.

The JJC branch could use more capacity. In fact, there are two trips that use two 30' buses simultaneously. You could call it intentional bus bunching. The reason they don't increase frequency instead is because of the pulse point in downtown Joliet, where most buses connect with each other at :10 after each hour. Using a 40' bus on 501 would be complicated by the fact that some 501 JJC trips and 509 are interlined. 509 doesn't need bigger buses, and eliminating the interline would mean that 509 wouldn't have a place for bus drivers to use the restroom at either terminal. There is also a tight turn in the JJC parking lot that even the 30' buses have trouble with. 507 also gets crowded, but increasing frequency to 30 minutes all day seems a better solution than 40' buses. 30 minute service all day on 507 was identified as an eventual goal during the 2008 restructuring. Currently 507 is 30 minutes during AM and PM peak and 60 minutes midday, evening, and Saturday. About two years ago they increased midday frequency on 504 to 30 minutes, and I wondered why they didn't do so on 507 instead. 504 can barely support hourly service, but I suppose the 30 minute service makes more sense since January when 504 was split into two branches at its far end. The final candidate for 40' buses is 834, but the crowding on that route is the far north portion from Downers Grove Metra to Yorktown. That would mean the bus would run most of the route far below capacity. Also, 722 might now be picking up some riders from 834, but I haven't been up that way to find out.

So basically, my conclusion on whether to send 40' buses to Heritage is NO, because they wouldn't be able to be used efficiently. Although, I wonder if they could use an MCI on a local route. That would be fun to ride, but I'm sure it's just wishful thinking.

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:34 PM, Busjack said:

In that the Aurora portion was mostly cancelled, I wouldn't bet on that. There was also supposed to be a Weber Rd. flex bus between Joliet and Naperville as part of the last restructuring, but that never happened.

The route 59 bus will probably happen eventually, but who knows when. It could still be a decade or more. An alternative to a route 59 bus all the way to Shorewood/JJC would be to have the route terminate at Louis Joliet Mall, and extend 507 to JJC via Essington-Caton Farm-Route 59-Jefferson-Houbolt. Same areas are served, just a different service pattern. However, I believe the consultant's report from the 2008 restructuring recommended (as a long-term goal) to extend 501 to Joliet Mall and extend 507 north via route 59. Seems inefficient to me. However, I can't check the report right now since it is currently taking so long to load that my computer stops trying.

Also trying to recall the report, it had the Weber Road flex route ending at Old Chicago Park-n-ride in Bolingbrook, not Joliet. However, other sources said it would go all the way to Joliet, which would make more sense to attract riders. However, it would seem to excessively duplicate 507 on Plainfield Road, which was the proposed routing.

There are several other things in that report that I didn't think made sense at the time, and still wouldn't.

 

 

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The final candidate for 40' buses is 834, but the crowding on that route is the far north portion from Downers Grove Metra to Yorktown. That would mean the bus would run most of the route far below capacity. Also, 722 might now be picking up some riders from 834, but I haven't been up that way to find out.

That would raise the question whether the market is Joliet to Yorktown or Downers' Grove to Yorktown. The latter would suggest another DuPage route, but you are probably correct that 722 handles it.

[Pace831]

25 minutes ago, Busjack said:

That would raise the question whether the market is Joliet to Yorktown or Downers' Grove to Yorktown. The latter would suggest another DuPage route, but you are probably correct that 722 handles it.

834 leaving Joliet is hit or miss. Sometimes it has nearly a full seated load and other times there are 3 people on board. Half the seats taken is probably normal. Lockport doesn't attract many people, neither does Lewis University. Romeoville does slightly better, but Bolingbrook is where it really starts to pick up people. Going through Woodridge and Downers Grove there might be a nearly full seated load until it gets to the Metra station. At that point, usually all but 3-4 people get off and a whole new group gets on, enough to make the bus standing room only. A few people usually get off at the hospital. By the time the bus gets to Yorktown, there are no standees but it's still pretty full.

So, it would seem that the primary market is Metra feeder in both directions. My question is whether all those people who board at the station came from the east or west. If enough of them are coming from the west, they might start using 722 instead which should help the crowding on 834.

[rotjohns]

6 hours ago, Pace831 said:

834 leaving Joliet is hit or miss. Sometimes it has nearly a full seated load and other times there are 3 people on board. Half the seats taken is probably normal. Lockport doesn't attract many people, neither does Lewis University. Romeoville does slightly better, but Bolingbrook is where it really starts to pick up people. Going through Woodridge and Downers Grove there might be a nearly full seated load until it gets to the Metra station. At that point, usually all but 3-4 people get off and a whole new group gets on, enough to make the bus standing room only. A few people usually get off at the hospital. By the time the bus gets to Yorktown, there are no standees but it's still pretty full.

So, it would seem that the primary market is Metra feeder in both directions. My question is whether all those people who board at the station came from the east or west. If enough of them are coming from the west, they might start using 722 instead which should help the crowding on 834.

I live not too far away from the 834 and I can tell you that it really depends on the direction it goes.  The 75th Street route gets far more riders than 63rd street, that's where the standing room only usually comes into play when I usually see it. With the 821 running in nearly the same direction as the 63rd street portion of the 834 during rush hour, it really doesn't make much of a difference except 821 is at the Belmont Metra Station instead of DG Main.  Now, catching the 722 could make sense, but remember, they can catch that bus at the Naperville Metra station.  So it would seem easier to catch it there if they are going on the West end of Ogden in Naperville.  The east end of Ogden in Lisle/DG would then warrant catching it at DG Metra.  My new job is 2 blocks from the Naperville Metra and of the times I've seen the 722 buses, I haven't seen a lot of people on them yet, but the new 714 has been a little slow to get going too.  With a lot of colleges on summer break including COD, it should pick up significantly by the end of August. 

One other note:  The 722/834 transfer at Ogden and Main isn't all that smooth.  If you're trying to catch the 722 and head West towards Naperville, the bus stop is about a block away on Ogden right next to the U.S. Bank and Jewel parking lot. So if you're on the 834 going north, that's a nice hike to that bus stop.  Southbound wouldn't apply because you can pretty much get off anywhere on Highland/Main street before Ogden to catch it. 

[Pace831]

25 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

I live not too far away from the 834 and I can tell you that it really depends on the direction it goes.  The 75th Street route gets far more riders than 63rd street, that's where the standing room only usually comes into play when I usually see it. With the 821 running in nearly the same direction as the 63rd street portion of the 834 during rush hour, it really doesn't make much of a difference except 821 is at the Belmont Metra Station instead of DG Main.  Now, catching the 722 could make sense, but remember, they can catch that bus at the Naperville Metra station.  So it would seem easier to catch it there if they are going on the West end of Ogden in Naperville.  The east end of Ogden in Lisle/DG would then warrant catching it at DG Metra.  My new job is 2 blocks from the Naperville Metra and of the times I've seen the 722 buses, I haven't seen a lot of people on them yet, but the new 714 has been a little slow to get going too.  With a lot of colleges on summer break including COD, it should pick up significantly by the end of August. 

One other note:  The 722/834 transfer at Ogden and Main isn't all that smooth.  If you're trying to catch the 722 and head West towards Naperville, the bus stop is about a block away on Ogden right next to the U.S. Bank and Jewel parking lot. So if you're on the 834 going north, that's a nice hike to that bus stop.  Southbound wouldn't apply because you can pretty much get off anywhere on Highland/Main street before Ogden to catch it. 

Thanks for the info about the transfer location. I'll probably need to remember that if I decide to go to Naperville for some reason. That's actually the reason I was excited about 722, it's the next best thing to the Joliet-Naperville route that was proposed because you can now make a 722-834 transfer to get between those two towns.

My reference to 722 had to do with people transferring between BNSF and 834 to go north toward Yorktown. There are usually at least a dozen people waiting for the northbound 834 at DG Metra, at least during the morning. If most of those people are coming from stations to the east, 722 won't make much difference to relieve crowds on 834. However, if they are coming from Lisle, Naperville, or Aurora, they'll probably start taking 722 instead of the train. 722 comes close to Lisle station and serves Naperville station directly, and they can transfer to 530 to get to Aurora or close to Route 59 station. I think most people in the far west suburbs along the BNSF who are going to the Yorktown area would prefer an all-bus trip, since short trips on Metra are expensive and they would have to pay separately for Pace 834 anyway.

[rotjohns]

In a perfect world, I would like to take 834 to 722 right to the Naperville train station, then I can walk from there; it would cost me $2 as opposed to taking a feeder bus to DG station, take Metra to Naperville, then walk. But that's over $5 to do all that. Unfortunately, timing is an issue for the first option so I stick to driving for now. 

 

[Pace831]

43 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

In a perfect world, I would like to take 834 to 722 right to the Naperville train station, then I can walk from there; it would cost me $2 as opposed to taking a feeder bus to DG station, take Metra to Naperville, then walk. But that's over $5 to do all that. Unfortunately, timing is an issue for the first option so I stick to driving for now. 

No way would I pay $3.75 for such a short trip on Metra. That just brings up the often-discussed issue of a lack of coordination between the transit agencies. If only Metra and Pace could work out some sort of transfer policy...

There was a guy I overheard on a northbound 834 during the morning rush complaining about a similar issue to yours. He implied he worked near the Lisle station. He said he could take 834 to Yorktown and transfer to 888, but that only worked if both buses were right on time. He was complaining about having to pay extra to ride Metra from DG to Lisle, to avoid the risk of getting to work late. I wonder if 722 would help him at all.