GM New Look 700s

[jajuan]

I was scrolling through info about CTA's retired buses in the forum's Buses section, and I noticed on error. The destination signs are listed as being roll signs. However the signs on the 700s were electronic flip dot signs similar to those on the MAN Americana 4000-series and MAN articulated 7300-series buses. The reason I remember this is because I remember the destination signs on the 700-series fishbowls almost never showed a route number when displaying the route name. For example, I would always see 700 series buses on the 44 Wallace/Racine and 94 S California (the two main routes these were used on because CTA needed a lot of the Americanas on the 38) with only 'WALLACE/RACINE' and 'S CALIFORNIA' respectively. (I know that like with the Americanas the WALLACE/RACINE display would be due to limited number of displayable characters on a line of text, but Americanas were still capable of displaying '94 S CALIFORNIA'.)

[sw4400]

I was scrolling through info about CTA's retired buses in the forum's Buses section, and I noticed on error. The destination signs are listed as being roll signs. However the signs on the 700s were electronic flip dot signs similar to those on the MAN Americana 4000-series and MAN articulated 7300-series buses. The reason I remember this is because I remember the destination signs on the 700-series fishbowls almost never showed a route number when displaying the route name. For example, I would always see 700 series buses on the 44 Wallace/Racine and 94 S California (the two main routes these were used on because CTA needed a lot of the Americanas on the 38) with only 'WALLACE/RACINE' and 'S CALIFORNIA' respectively. (I know that like with the Americanas the WALLACE/RACINE display would be due to limited number of displayable characters on a line of text, but Americanas were still capable of displaying '94 S CALIFORNIA'.)

I was going to disagree because I thought I saw a pic of a 700-series GM Fishbowl with a roll sign awhile ago, but I actually now agree with you, jajuan. This pic here doesn't show a roll sign on this bus. If it has a flip-dot destination sign, it must've been worse than the units on the Americanas and M.A.N Articulateds, because I can't read it in the picture.

[Busjack]

I was going to disagree because I thought I saw a pic of a 700-series GM Fishbowl with a roll sign awhile ago, but I actually now agree with you, jajuan. This pic here doesn't show a roll sign on this bus. If it has a flip-dot destination sign, it must've been worse than the units on the Americanas and M.A.N Articulateds, because I can't read it in the picture.

The one or two I saw at Midway didn't seem to have any sign at all. However, that was in the last month of their existence in 1995, and it hadn't dawned on me that they were ex-South Suburban.

This probably depended on what Pace did, and some of the 8000s (at least in Wilmette) had flip dot signs near the end.

[artthouwill]

For the longest time, these buses did have roll signs but that was when they were South Suburban Safeway buses. My recollection is that when they were painted in the Pace livery scheme, they had the flip dot signs. They also received tinted windows and all hard plastic brown seats. In later years I used to see a couple of them parked in a parking lot behind a building on 79th just east of State St (on the south side of the street). I can't recall ever seeing any in CTA service, though I've seen pictures of them repainted in CTA livery, but still having that blue stripe from the Pace livery running along near the top of each side of the bus.

[jajuan]

I was going to disagree because I thought I saw a pic of a 700-series GM Fishbowl with a roll sign awhile ago, but I actually now agree with you, jajuan. This pic here doesn't show a roll sign on this bus. If it has a flip-dot destination sign, it must've been worse than the units on the Americanas and M.A.N Articulateds, because I can't read it in the picture.

Well if you factor in that the bus isn't powered on, you wouldn't necessarily see a display unless the operator who last had it didn't power off the bus's electronics.

[Busjack]

...though I've seen pictures of them repainted in CTA livery, but still having that blue stripe from the Pace livery running along near the top of each side of the bus.

It seems pretty evident (especially in light of the previous discussion of the Seattle buses and the 4915s) that they were not repainted, just that CTA slapped a blue stripe decal over the yellow one. Apparently CTA didn't care about the blue stripe on the roof board.

[andrethebusman]

Here is the lowdown on these: Originally there were 55 buses (701-755) owned by Chicago South Suburban Mass Transit District and leased to South Suburban Safeway Lines. In the late 70's, 40 were rebuilt and repainted in RTA "pumpkin" colors. One was soon wrecked, but the remaining 39 were repainted Pace white/yellow in the 1980's. Circa 1990 all 39 were "sold" to RTA, and eventually sold for scrap. Buyer picked up 6, but never picked up the other 33. These 33 were then transferred to CTA, who only put their red/white stripe on them. The digital signs, which were installed when the buses were first rebuilt by Blitz, were an early type that could display no more than 15 letters/numbers, and CTA had to write a specific sign program just for these buses. Attached is a disposition list. Note buses sold to Flx - CTA made a deal to "trade in" a bunch of 5307's on 5300-5769 series, in lieu of cash, which Flxible then sold for scrap.

700.txt

[jajuan]

Here is the lowdown on these: Originally there were 55 buses (701-755) owned by Chicago South Suburban Mass Transit District and leased to South Suburban Safeway Lines. In the late 70's, 40 were rebuilt and repainted in RTA "pumpkin" colors. One was soon wrecked, but the remaining 39 were repainted Pace white/yellow in the 1980's. Circa 1990 all 39 were "sold" to RTA, and eventually sold for scrap. Buyer picked up 6, but never picked up the other 33. These 33 were then transferred to CTA, who only put their red/white stripe on them. The digital signs, which were installed when the buses were first rebuilt by Blitz, were an early type that could display no more than 25 letters/numbers, and CTA had to write a specific sign program just for these buses. Attached is a disposition list. Note buses sold to Flx - CTA made a deal to "trade in" a bunch of 5307's on 5300-5769 series, in lieu of cash, which Flxible then sold for scrap.

Thanks. So my memory is correct that they did in fact have digital signs. The special sign program written specifically for them would explain why when these signs were working, they never displayed a route number when the route name was displayed.

[Busjack]

...The digital signs, which were installed when the buses were first rebuilt by Blitz, were an early type that could display no more than 25 letters/numbers, and CTA had to write a specific sign program just for these buses. ...

Standard signs of that era only displayed 15 columns of characters. One could consult, say, the flip dot signs on the Pace 8700-8923.

The change, around 1990, which was reflected on the CTA 4400s and 5300s was that the headsign consisted of the route box that usually could display 3 characters, plus the standard, not quite as tall box next to it, which had the standard display. However, those signs seemed a bit more flexible than the 1980s versions, because they could support bold and lower case fonts. While CTA tried to load those onto the 4915s and 7300s, they were fairly illegible.

[jajuan]

Standard signs of that era only displayed 15 columns of characters. One could consult, say, the flip dot signs on the Pace 8700-8923.

The change, around 1990, which was reflected on the CTA 4400s and 5300s was that the headsign consisted of the route box that usually could display 3 characters, plus the standard, not quite as tall box next to it, which had the standard display. However, those signs seemed a bit more flexible than the 1980s versions, because they could support bold and lower case fonts. While CTA tried to load those onto the 4915s and 7300s, they were fairly illegible.

I think they loaded lowercase letters in the Americanas as well in later years. I remember the few Americanas that had working digital signs as it got closer to their retirement time displayed lowercase characters when they updated the destination displays for the 145 and 146 on all digital signed buses at the time to show the full route name instead of just "145 MICH EXP" and "146 MICH EXP" respectively. This was pretty much at the time of the big Lake Drive route realignments that resulted in the 146's route name changing to Inner Drive/Michigan Express after CTA created the 144 and gave the Marine/Michigan Express name to that route. The 147's route display was also updated as well from "147 EXPRESS" to the current displays but they were irrelevant to the Americanas though since by then they rarely operated on the 147 route with it becoming a wheelchair route and most except maybe one or two at best not having working signs at that point to begin with. But I mention the 147 update though because from what I remember of the TMCs and 5800s' side signs on that route, there is a possibility an Americana sign would have shown lowercase characters had those signs worked and an Americana still been in use on the 147.

[Busjack]

...Americana sign would have shown lowercase characters had those signs worked and an Americana still been in use on the 147.

By that time, the only signs I saw on Americanas were paper ones.

The issue might have also been whether a given series had TransDot or Luminator controllers (but maybe not, as 4400s and some 5300s had TransDot ones).

Finally, my main point was that unless the signs didn't have Z nor numerals, the relevant number was 15, not 25.

BTW, based on the time frame (late 1995), if any 700 scrap was traded for Flx, it would have been 6000s, since the 700s were acquired for the Green Line project, which was after the 5300s were received,and lasted until 1995, when they were replaced by 6000s at 74th.

[jajuan]

By that time, the only signs I saw on Americanas were paper ones.

The issue might have also been whether a given series had TransDot or Luminator controllers (but maybe not, as 4400s and some 5300s had TransDot ones).

Finally, my main point was that unless the signs didn't have Z nor numerals, the relevant number was 15, not 25.

BTW, based on the time frame (late 1995), if any 700 scrap was traded for Flx, it would have been 6000s, since the 700s were acquired for the Green Line project, which was after the 5300s were received,and lasted until 1995, when they were replaced by 6000s at 74th.

Actually Americana 4218 and I think 4069 still had working signs. 4069's gave out a few months before it was retired, first being stuck displaying a #69 display and then finally dying completely, while 4218's sign worked till the end. But since all the rest gave out among the remaining Americanas, NP operators slapped a paper sign up anyway despite its sign still working. Plus I think one factor that was came into play was that the Americanas had been slated to be retired by summer 2003, but that got pushed back to fall 2003 which they again survived. CTA stopped mentioning a retirement timeframe and they ended up lasting till 2004. But at any rate, the point is since the CTA was primed to retire the Americanas, once their signs died that one last time they just stopped replacing them.