BusHunter Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Complete Coach Works has come up with a plan to rehab buses and retrofit them with All Electric propulsion systems. Even though the price is about the cost of a new bus, $500K, the fuel savings are phenomenal, a 92 percent operation cost savings. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/bus/zbus/workshop/1b_Neshati.pdf They have been touring the country with a prototype bus of their own. http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/evs/2013/04/manhattan-project-cccs-battery-bus/ They even appeared on Jay Leno's garage. Like he points out the cost of one of those buses is a 1/4 of the cost of a brand new Proterra all electric bus. So far they seem to have orders from Ben Franklin transit and ST. Louis sounds like they are interested in this too. Interesting stuff!! http://www.completecoach.com/jayleno/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Complete Coach Works has come up with a plan to rehab buses and retrofit them with All Electric propulsion systems. Even though the price is about the cost of a new bus, $500K, the fuel savings are phenomenal, a 92 percent operation cost savings. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/bus/zbus/workshop/1b_Neshati.pdf They have been touring the country with a prototype bus of their own. http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/evs/2013/04/manhattan-project-cccs-battery-bus/ They even appeared on Jay Leno's garage. Like he points out the cost of one of those buses is a 1/4 of the cost of a brand new Proterra all electric bus. So far they seem to have orders from Ben Franklin transit and ST. Louis sounds like they are interested in this too. Interesting stuff!! http://www.completecoach.com/jayleno/ It does look promising... I linked to Jay Leno's video about it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Complete Coach Works has come up with a plan to rehab buses and retrofit them with All Electric propulsion systems. Even though the price is about the cost of a new bus, $500K, the fuel savings are phenomenal, a 92 percent operation cost savings. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/bus/zbus/workshop/1b_Neshati.pdf They have been touring the country with a prototype bus of their own. http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/evs/2013/04/manhattan-project-cccs-battery-bus/ They even appeared on Jay Leno's garage. Like he points out the cost of one of those buses is a 1/4 of the cost of a brand new Proterra all electric bus. So far they seem to have orders from Ben Franklin transit and ST. Louis sounds like they are interested in this too. Interesting stuff!! http://www.completecoach.com/jayleno/ I've watched the video with Jay Leno quite a few times. I just wonder if they could also do this with an artic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I've watched the video with Jay Leno quite a few times. I just wonder if they could also do this with an artic. They could do it with anything, but the questions would be the recharge time and battery capacity. Probably would work better with an artic if the motor were on the center axle. If you look back at the original pdf, the test at Ben Franklin Transit* was on one short and one medium loop route, which seems to support my conclusion that the CTA one would work basically on something like 124. _______ *Apparently near Walla Walla, Wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 They could do it with anything, but the questions would be the recharge time and battery capacity. Probably would work better with an artic if the motor were on the center axle. If you look back at the original pdf, the test at Ben Franklin Transit* was on one short and one medium loop route, which seems to support my conclusion that the CTA one would work basically on something like 124. _______ *Apparently near Walla Walla, Wash. I found out today that CCW can rebuild a 60 footer. http://www.nextstopstl.org/11967/ St. Louis' Metro purchased 15 of New Flyer's previously used articulated buses (D60LF) and commissioned CCW to rebuild them. They weren't rebuilt to all-electric, but to clean diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 You know if CTA is losing the #900's due to ISE going out of business, it might not be too bad of an idea to research having those rebuilt to All Electric specs just as an experiment. They really need to see how the Xcelsiors perform though, but all indications are that the bus performs well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 I wonder where will CCW get their "donor" buses from? Buses from some places in the frost belt may have problems with corrosion. Speaking of corrosion, under Huberman's (sp) did the CTA change the order on some of the New Flyers to reduce the stainless steel content? It would be interesting to try out BusHunter's idea on the 900s though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 You know if CTA is losing the #900's due to ISE going out of business, it might not be too bad of an idea to research having those rebuilt to All Electric specs just as an experiment. They really need to see how the Xcelsiors perform though, but all indications are that the bus performs well. In the case of the Chicago environment (and I don't mean just snow) the test hasn't even started yet. The parts requisition, even if only for "requirements" indicates that the 900s are, for the most part, not dead yet, and the issue seems to be why put another $500,000 into a ~$400,000 bus. For that matter, they still have 3 5900s they haven't figured out what to do with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 I wonder where will CCW get their "donor" buses from? Buses from some places in the frost belt may have problems with corrosion. Speaking of corrosion, under Huberman's (sp) did the CTA change the order on some of the New Flyers to reduce the stainless steel content? It would be interesting to try out BusHunter's idea on the 900s though. They did say back then that they replaced some stainless with lighter carbon, but someone on this forum researched it and found a New Flyer statement that the frame elements were then covered with aluminum to meet the 12 year body structure warranty in the specification. You'll also remember that that 12 year warranty was essentially the only reason CTA had a claim against NABI. It also came out in the Q&A over the 40/60 foot bus procurement that the structure has to be strong enough to withstand some much more powerful salt than NaCl, which Chicago uses on its streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 In the case of the Chicago environment (and I don't mean just snow) the test hasn't even started yet. The parts requisition, even if only for "requirements" indicates that the 900s are, for the most part, not dead yet, and the issue seems to be why put another $500,000 into a ~$400,000 bus. For that matter, they still have 3 5900s they haven't figured out what to do with. That's why in my post I use words such as research, as it may be a bit premature right now. I would definitely get the demo over here and test it in service. It just seems like a waste to me. They have a 7 year bus, #906 that's done and sitting now, probably with buses following it in the short term. I don't know if the #5900's are too far gone to salvage, but something that's interesting if they did do it would be that being that the #900 buses are hybrid already and axle drivin' would there be any discount on a rehab because the existing infrastructure is already in place. The #5900's have the roof pods to remove and it may be too hectic to remove the existing propulsion system in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 ... if they did do it would be that being that the #900 buses are hybrid already and axle drivin' would there be any discount on a rehab because the existing infrastructure is already in place. ... The only thing that would be similar would be the traction motor. Since the diesel engine is charging up the batteries, the battery pack and electronic controls would undoubtedly be insufficient for pure battery operation. Probably would have to rip off the roof pod in any event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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