MetroShadow Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Maybe . It could be the cta runs the local service with premium express art runs over it Except ART isn't premium nor express. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Ok limited stops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesi2282 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sounds like they want to beef up the south end markets. Maybe in anticipation of switching over to toyota park instead of argo From the way it was worded on the Public Hearing Notice, Pace won't entirely abandon the north end, it did not mention any changes to weekend/holiday service. My prediction: Harlem/Lake will be used for rush hour short turns, and the current Harlem/Ogden short turns on the southern end will be cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Try the public hearing page... Brain fart on my part, But here's the link. As usual, they probably won't say what they really intend before the public hearing, but one has to take into account that there are a certain number of buses during the rush hour that end at Ogden. Given your prediction in the preceding post, since at least half of the existing 307 rush trips end at Harlem instead of Argo (schedule), looks like most of what Pace wants to do is serve Berwyn, but it really isn't indicated that they want more service through the open territory of Forest View (mostly a BP tank farm there). Note that the hearing is in Elmwood Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Brain fart on my part, But here's the link. As usual, they probably won't say what they really intend before the public hearing, but one has to take into account that there are a certain number of buses during the rush hour that end at Ogden. Given your prediction in the preceding post, since at least half of the existing 307 rush trips end at Harlem instead of Argo (schedule), looks like most of what Pace wants to do is serve Berwyn, but it really isn't indicated that they want more service through the open territory of Forest View (mostly a BP tank farm there). Note that the hearing is in Elmwood Park. The 90 can pick up every passenger north of the Green Line station going NB, whereas Pace 307 can only accommodate those going only as far as Grand. There is also the 318 North Ave which is also a high frequency route, albeit in the reverse commute direction. As it stands now, rush hour service along Harlem from Green Line northward stands as follows: 307 - 15 minute headways 90 Harlem - 12 minute headways 318 - 15-20 minute headways WB (north on Harlem a.m. rush ) and EB(south on Harlem p.m. rush) Currently south of Ogden, rush hour service is 30 minutes apart. So Jesi may be on to something concerning the south end of the route. The 62H and the 307 run similarly between 63rd/ARcher and Archer/Harlem with virtually no ridership on 63rd. Perhaps the 307 will be adjusted to turn back at 65th/Harlem or 63rd/Harlem. I think 65th would make a better connection with 386 and the route can still serve Argo High School.. However I think eventually if Pace is planning a transit center at Toyota Park, that is where the route extension will eventually be terminalized. (I made up a new word). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 As harlem been talked abiut in pacesshort term plan perhaps they are focusing first on the portion south of green line and build the market. Milwaukee corridor is two segments so why not harlem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 As harlem been talked abiut in pacesshort term plan perhaps they are focusing first on the portion south of green line and build the market. Milwaukee corridor is two segments so why not harlem Heck, Harlem is already 4 segments (423, 90, 307, and 386). The only 2 reasons 272 is separate from 270 are (1) originally it took a CMAQ to get it going, and (2) with the North restructuring, base 272 is operated by North. If one really wanted to throw out some marketing theory, it is why Pace has not done a comprehensive restructuring like it has done elsewhere (North Shore, South Cook/Will, and North) as it has promised to do at West? Seems like all Pace wants to do at West is retreat from CTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I seem to recall a market analysis was done also cermak north, ave service recently expanded 301 restructuring Roosevelt road restructuring. I'd say no they are not retreating but expanding in their territory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Heck, Harlem is already 4 segments (423, 90, 307, and 386). The only 2 reasons 272 is separate from 270 are (1) originally it took a CMAQ to get it going, and (2) with the North restructuring, base 272 is operated by North. If one really wanted to throw out some marketing theory, it is why Pace has not done a comprehensive restructuring like it has done elsewhere (North Shore, South Cook/Will, and North) as it has promised to do at West? Seems like all Pace wants to do at West is retreat from CTA. I guess one could say Pace West has been under a constant restructure: 1. 301 was combined with 747and given expanded hours and higher frequencies. 2. 303 was combined with 325 and given expanded weekday hours 3. 304 was cut back from 54/Pink Line station to N Riverside Mall ()eliminating 322 duplication). 4. 305 eliminated all but two trips to Concordia University, ending trips at Harlem/Green Line. 5. 317 added hours as a result of CTA reducing to rush hours only then eliminating the 17 Westchester. 6. 320 cut Saturday service, then weekday midday service. 7. 322 made some minor early morning and late evening adjustments to its schedule. I suppose a mjor restructuring of Pace West will be looked at once someone figures out whether or not the Blue Line will be extended to Manheim or even Oak Brook. 8. 747 and 767 eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 In response to the two above, that certainly isn't comprehensive. Most of what art mentioned was reactive (such as 317), cuts, or minor. This is certainly sounding like the 304/322 cuts, which were retreats from CTA. It certainly wasn't like the S-SW-Will restructuring, which looked at everything in those 3 divisions, or even the NS one that not only looked at NS, but also its effect on NW (although arguably the also promised restructuring of the NW panhandle townships really hasn't occurred either other than the Academy related cutbacks and the I-90 project). That's not even getting into that while the Crowd Reduction Plan indicated some planning coordination with CTA, nothing like that has yet been announced with respect to Harlem, although it may be another secret behind the public hearing notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Also milwaukee south of goldmill had the ccorridor study with Niles pushing it uptt to first. From the short list again it seems to focus on established corridors with decent service and land use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Also milwaukee south of goldmill had the ccorridor study with Niles pushing it uptt to first. From the short list again it seems to focus on established corridors with decent service and land use So, what's the point? Of course, Niles wouldn't have any interest in 272. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I dont think you can make a relationship with current service and the art network the current routes probably are local service yt? Art is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I dont think you can make a relationship with current service and the art network the current routes probably are local service yt? Art is different. It may be different, but any draws on the same potential ridership. Why I question such things as Harlem is that unless there is an identified ridership somehow being inconvenienced going from Glenview (or at least the White Castle at Harlem and Howard) to Bridgeview or Tinley Park, the proposed ART makes no sense, especially when CTA and Pace are already preying on each other. I suppose it could also be argued that if the Harlem ART is implemented (on which I am not betting), the rationale for extending 90 from Grand to Green Line instantly vanishes, but I bet that extension doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I hope someone goes to the hearing and finds the real story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I guess one could say Pace West has been under a constant restructure: 1. 301 was combined with 747and given expanded hours and higher frequencies. 2. 303 was combined with 325 and given expanded weekday hours 3. 304 was cut back from 54/Pink Line station to N Riverside Mall ()eliminating 322 duplication). 4. 305 eliminated all but two trips to Concordia University, ending trips at Harlem/Green Line. 5. 317 added hours as a result of CTA reducing to rush hours only then eliminating the 17 Westchester. 6. 320 cut Saturday service, then weekday midday service. 7. 322 made some minor early morning and late evening adjustments to its schedule. I suppose a mjor restructuring of Pace West will be looked at once someone figures out whether or not the Blue Line will be extended to Manheim or even Oak Brook. 8. 747 and 767 eliminated. It's not a restructuring, but piecemeal changes to make West more efficient. Keep in mind, many of those routes predate the RTA (and basically most of us), and that the overall goal is to improve connectivity. It's not a total tear down (because West is far more intricate than its merited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I dont see the blue line being extended with red line rehab, the 130th extention and orange line extention. I do see BOS with express service to oak brook and downers grove and schaumburg-itasca as a viable option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I dont see the blue line being extended with red line rehab, the 130th extention and orange line extention. I do see BOS with express service to oak brook and downers grove and schaumburg-itasca as a viable option The Southeast Service has a better chance than the Blue Line to Mannheim (meanwhile, RPM is another piecemeal thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 And the south east line doesnt have much with its ridership projections being so close to the IC. Plus what the UP wants in extortion oh I mean capital improvements. Just run a decent express bus service downtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 It's not a restructuring, but piecemeal changes to make West more efficient. Keep in mind, many of those routes predate the RTA (and basically most of us), and that the overall goal is to improve connectivity. It's not a total tear down (because West is far more intricate than its merited). Although West has heavy ridership, it still sure isn't like South, which got the full restructuring. But I agree that what was at West was piecemeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 ...I do see BOS with express service to oak brook and downers grove and schaumburg-itasca as a viable option At least Oakbrook and Schaumburg/Itasca (and Palatine and Randall Road) are in the works with the I-90 agreement with the Tollway Authority, and IDOT examining express buses as part of the Eisenhower rebuild (connecting up with a possible Blue Line extension to Hillside). Downers Grove itself doesn't need it as it has several BNSFstations, but maybe you meant the Yorktown area. Also, 322 is eventually supposed to get ART, although Pace says that is an RTA project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why is #322 an rta project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 And meant to d owners groce area near butterfield rd. There are not many decent connections from bnsf to oak brook or lombard d owners grove area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Why is #322 an rta project? Pace said it was too complicated. Didn't say why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 And the south east line doesnt have much with its ridership projections being so close to the IC. Plus what the UP wants in extortion oh I mean capital improvements. Just run a decent express bus service downtown At the same time, #355 wasn't producing the efficiency numbers as it would've been. Henceforth, the restructuring to Hegewisch. However, the concern is to send people from the Harvey south towards Oakbrook and Rosemont as quickly as possible (maybe not with SES, but for planning in-case it ever happens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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