Chicago's Electric Garbage Trucks

[BusHunter]

Found an interesting article about Chicago ordering electric garbage trucks. So i guess chicago has went electric vehicle happy all of a sudden. If you click on the video you can hear what they sound like. (They hum) I think after a day of hearing that I'd be buzzing too.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140926/little-village/quiet-trash-pickup-chicago-has-continents-only-all-electric-garbage-truck

Other newer stories have said they ordered 20 electric trucks under a 5 year pilot plan.

Edited May 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

An electric garbage truck was mentioned in the BYD articles. This article says that the Chicago truck is by Motiv. The article doesn't say much about Motiv, but Motiv Power Systems website has a page on the truck.

I said before this seems to make sense, in that stopping every 20 feet should get some use out of the regenerative brakes. Also, since garbage trucks are not supposed to be running at night, the 8 hour recharge shouldn't be a problem.

They also have a link to a video* on Medill Reports, although it doesn't show much about the truck being driven.

 

_____________

*Engine burning "coal?"

[BusHunter]

An electric garbage truck was mentioned in the BYD articles. This article says that the Chicago truck is by Motiv. The article doesn't say much about Motiv, but Motiv Power Systems website has a page on the truck.

I said before this seems to make sense, in that stopping every 20 feet should get some use out of the regenerative brakes. Also, since garbage trucks are not supposed to be running at night, the 8 hour recharge shouldn't be a problem.

They also have a link to a video* on Medill Reports, although it doesn't show much about the truck being driven.

 

_____________

*Engine burning "coal?"

​I guess it all depends on the miles or range it's gets on a charge. I know myself that garbage operators here on the nw side have to travel back and forth to the dump when the truck gets full. They could go up to 3 times a day depending on how much garbage is out there. (Like if the area had a flood that's bad news) My dump is located over there in the Chicago/Kenton area. You can see the incinerator from the green line. So that's what like 20 miles round trip from the nw edge of the city? Maybe they picked 34th/Lawndale area because it's closer to a dump. Hopefully they can get 100-120 miles a charge because they have to pull out and in too.

[Busjack]

​I guess it all depends on the miles or range it's gets on a charge. I know myself that garbage operators here on the nw side have to travel back and forth to the dump when the truck gets full. They could go up to 3 times a day depending on how much garbage is out there. (Like if the area had a flood that's bad news) My dump is located over there in the Chicago/Kenton area. You can see the incinerator from the green line. So that's what like 20 miles round trip from the nw edge of the city? Maybe they picked 34th/Lawndale area because it's closer to a dump. Hopefully they can get 100-120 miles a charge because they have to pull out and in too.

​The article said the trucks were used for collecting recyclables,* so the issue would be where the nearest sorting center is. They used to say that it was at 137th and Doty, but they must now have more than that. Or maybe they just need a transfer center to dump the load into a big dump truck.

As far as pull out and pull in, I thought Streets and San worked on a ward garage basis. Anyway, the DNAInfo article said it has to be able to handle 60 miles a day.

__________

*Actually, it said "refuse and recycling." Again, it may be a question whether the city has gotten off the blue bag system.

[BusHunter]

No way could they have 50 garbage truck garages, one for each ward. But they could be assigned per ward from a few places. Recycling is handled by a 3rd party in the city unless they mean't downtown which they have the trucks that do both, split up the middle. 60 miles is kind of tight, but no one said they couldn't swap trucks between load 2 and 3 either.

Speaking of clean air and technology, I was reading in today's trib Nevada wants to let self driving semi trucks drive the interstate. Daimler who is putting this out though wants to test it further before implementing it to do actual loads between Las Vegas and Reno.   

Edited May 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

...

Speaking of clean air and technology, I was reading in today's trib Nevada wants to let self driving semi trucks drive the interstate. Daimler who is putting this out though wants to test it further before implementing it to do actual loads between Las Vegas and Reno.   

​Apparently based on this story in Wired. Apparently, not entirely self driving, as it mentions "alerting the human" (sounds a bit like the CTA signal system). However, it is incorporating a lot of the safety technology being put in high end cars. The article does allude to the fear of carnage that would ensue if the truck were truly autonomous and got out of control.

[BusHunter]

​Apparently based on this story in Wired. Apparently, not entirely self driving, as it mentions "alerting the human" (sounds a bit like the CTA signal system). However, it is incorporating a lot of the safety technology being put in high end cars. The article does allude to the fear of carnage that would ensue if the truck were truly autonomous and got out of control.

​It also talks about the prospects of a jobless future due to technology. Truck drivers don't sound like they really have much choice but to embrace autonomous interstate driving and become the local drivers instead of the long haul ones. But they said the implementation is at least 10 years away. Technology does seem to be running our futures. There's a Chase bank by me that is all ATM's and has no tellers and it has a lobby in River Grove. Now the one at the HIP, just took out a couple teller windows and replaced them with ATM's. Now they want you to use those, but the ATM's have limitations like withdrawal limits etc. One day we may go to Jewel and see all self checkout machines.

[Busjack]

​It also talks about the prospects of a jobless future due to technology. Truck drivers don't sound like they really have much choice but to embrace autonomous interstate driving and become the local drivers instead of the long haul ones. But they said the implementation is at least 10 years away. Technology does seem to be running our futures. There's a Chase bank by me that is all ATM's and has no tellers and it has a lobby in River Grove. Now the one at the HIP, just took out a couple teller windows and replaced them with ATM's. Now they want you to use those, but the ATM's have limitations like withdrawal limits etc. One day we may go to Jewel and see all self checkout machines.

​The article's point seemed to be that they can't get enough truck drivers. Also, like my observation that it sounded like CTA cab signals, WMATA was and maybe again is autonomous, but there still is a human operator.

Some of other other things seem to be moving in the other direction. While predecessors to Chase made a big deal about a charge to see a teller, Chase made a deal about private bankers, except mine dropped me because I wouldn't let him see my mutual fund account.

With regard to Jewel, Cerberus said it was getting rid of the self checkout. One near me just got repainted with pictures of old JEWEL stores and the Wrigley Field font for Beer Wine and Spirits, and they took out the self checkouts. If anything, it looks like a bank, in that there is a cold drink cooler in front of the group of checkout counters, and a sign at the end of that to wait here for the next checker. Maybe with that and the Coke Freestyle machine in fast casual restaurants with long lines of children waiting to play with the touch screen, merchants are learning that technology does not always serve customers faster. On the other hand, I remember in the early 1980s that scanners couldn't be trusted and only large chain grocery stores could afford them, but now that it the only way that is used.

[andrethebusman]

​It also talks about the prospects of a jobless future due to technology. Truck drivers don't sound like they really have much choice but to embrace autonomous interstate driving and become the local drivers instead of the long haul ones. But they said the implementation is at least 10 years away. Technology does seem to be running our futures. There's a Chase bank by me that is all ATM's and has no tellers and it has a lobby in River Grove. Now the one at the HIP, just took out a couple teller windows and replaced them with ATM's. Now they want you to use those, but the ATM's have limitations like withdrawal limits etc. One day we may go to Jewel and see all self checkout machines.

​Late evenings many Jewels are already all self-checkout. This was one person can watch 6 or eight lanes. Unfortunately, all companies are constantly looking how to reduce manpower (and thus pay hours). The Luddites in the early 1800's did have a point. Smashing the new machines doesn't solve the problem - getting rid of the guy who invented them is what is really necessary, so he doesn't invent more. Unfortunately, new inventors keep coming along...

[andrethebusman]

​Apparently based on this story in Wired. Apparently, not entirely self driving, as it mentions "alerting the human" (sounds a bit like the CTA signal system). However, it is incorporating a lot of the safety technology being put in high end cars. The article does allude to the fear of carnage that would ensue if the truck were truly autonomous and got out of control.

​Actually, autonomous vehicles have been around for a while. Google has a whole bunch used for filming Street View. Strangest thing to watch, too, turns corners, stops and starts, even backs up at a dead end, all with the person in the seat just sitting there doing nothing. So this is already proven it can work, and unless somebody is making a deliberate effort to cause a wreck, it is not something to be afraid of. If somebody is intent on causing a collision, it probably won't matter much anyway, though an autonomous vehicle might be able to react faster than a human to impending problems. However, no matter how automated it gets, for the forseeable future there will still need to be an "attendant" on board, just like all automated rail systems still have somebody watching, either on the train or like Miami's downtown people mover, in the control center.

[andrethebusman]

​The article said the trucks were used for collecting recyclables,* so the issue would be where the nearest sorting center is. They used to say that it was at 137th and Doty, but they must now have more than that. Or maybe they just need a transfer center to dump the load into a big dump truck.

As far as pull out and pull in, I thought Streets and San worked on a ward garage basis. Anyway, the DNAInfo article said it has to be able to handle 60 miles a day.

__________

*Actually, it said "refuse and recycling." Again, it may be a question whether the city has gotten off the blue bag system.

​Chicago has had a few hybrid garbage trucks for several years. I have only seen one up close, but there are likely more.

[BusHunter]

​Actually, autonomous vehicles have been around for a while. Google has a whole bunch used for filming Street View. Strangest thing to watch, too, turns corners, stops and starts, even backs up at a dead end, all with the person in the seat just sitting there doing nothing. So this is already proven it can work, and unless somebody is making a deliberate effort to cause a wreck, it is not something to be afraid of. If somebody is intent on causing a collision, it probably won't matter much anyway, though an autonomous vehicle might be able to react faster than a human to impending problems. However, no matter how automated it gets, for the forseeable future there will still need to be an "attendant" on board, just like all automated rail systems still have somebody watching, either on the train or like Miami's downtown people mover, in the control center.

​Autonomous trucks still sound like they are in the infant stages. Only being able to follow lines sounds simplistic. What if a real world scenario happened like a car cut it off fairly close. Is the truck going to slam on the brakes or concede it's stopping distance is increasing rapidly and not panic. Then there's the turning factor. It's going to have to be more intelligent if it makes a turn because it will have to judge clearances on the side and back of the rig and have to see not only out the front of the rig but on front angles of it to not clip other vehicles in the turn. I wonder what it does in construction zones where there may not be lines installed.

But the article does explain there is already technology in trucks now that will self brake in an impending collision scenario. So some technology already exists.

Edited May 8, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

​Late evenings many Jewels are already all self-checkout. This was one person can watch 6 or eight lanes. Unfortunately, all companies are constantly looking how to reduce manpower (and thus pay hours). The Luddites in the early 1800's did have a point. Smashing the new machines doesn't solve the problem - getting rid of the guy who invented them is what is really necessary, so he doesn't invent more. Unfortunately, new inventors keep coming along...

​There always has to be an attendant (even one for the bank of self checkout lanes) to weigh produce, scan coupons (I tried once, and the machine said I couldn't), and deal with the inevitable foul ups, whether caused by the customer or the equipment. Number 3 always applies at Home Depot, Walmart, and Lowe's. At Meijer, it is questionable whether you or the clerk knows that there is a shoplifter tag in the box that has to be deactivated before going out the door. And, as I noted above, Cerebrus is getting rid of the self serve lanes at Jewel. Might not have hit yours yet.

[Busjack]

​Autonomous trucks still sound like they are in the infant stages. Only being able to follow lines sounds simplistic. What if a real world scenario happened like a car cut it off fairly close. Is the truck going to slam on the brakes or concede it's stopping distance is increasing rapidly and not panic. Then there's the turning factor. It's going to have to be more intelligent if it makes a turn because it will have to judge clearances on the side and back of the rig and have to see not only out the front of the rig but on front angles of it to not clip other vehicles in the turn. I wonder what it does in construction zones where there may not be lines installed.

But the article does explain there is already technology in trucks now that will self brake in an impending collision scenario. So some technology already exists.

​People are already noting that with cars,  the adaptive cruise control is more likely to put on the brakes, to the driver's annoyance, similar to what was described in the article about the truck. It working seamlessly seems to depend on how well the quirks of the road are programmed into the navigation system.

BTW, since the Wired reference is Daimler, here's an article about all the collision avoidance technology in a Mercedes S Class.

[strictures]

No way could they have 50 garbage truck garages, one for each ward. But they could be assigned per ward from a few places. Recycling is handled by a 3rd party in the city unless they mean't downtown which they have the trucks that do both, split up the middle. 60 miles is kind of tight, but no one said they couldn't swap trucks between load 2 and 3 either.

 

​The city has just a handful of garages for all its vehicles. The garbage trucks & the recycling trucks operate on a district basis for about 2 years now.

An inspector general's report in the last couple of weeks says that the district operation has cut the need from something like 257 trucks to I believe 210 trucks & many are far more efficient than the city planned for, so see some big changes soon. The city budgeted 40 minutes to pickup every alley, but apparently the majority of trucks do each alley in under 30 minutes & many do it in 22 minutes.

http://chicagoinspectorgeneral.org/publications-and-press/audit-of-dss-garbage-collection-performance/

[strictures]

​There always has to be an attendant (even one for the bank of self checkout lanes) to weigh produce, scan coupons (I tried once, and the machine said I couldn't), and deal with the inevitable foul ups, whether caused by the customer or the equipment. Number 3 always applies at Home Depot, Walmart, and Lowe's. At Meijer, it is questionable whether you or the clerk knows that there is a shoplifter tag in the box that has to be deactivated before going out the door. And, as I noted above, Cerberus is getting rid of the self serve lanes at Jewel. Might not have hit yours yet.

​They have tested out stores where every single item has an RFID tag embedded in it. That way, your cart would go into a "tunnel" at the register & every item would be recognized & charged up on the register. I don't know how it would work for fruits & vegetables.

I do remember seeing on TV, a test of  such a store in South Africa, but I don't know if it's still in operation.

From what I read, the holdup was the cost of RFID tags & getting them placed into everything by the manufacturers. But Aldi does it simpler, they require their suppliers to print the bar codes on all six sides of a box & make them very long, so the scanner doesn't miss them, slowing down the line.

[Busjack]

​They have tested out stores where every single item has an RFID tag embedded in it. That way, your cart would go into a "tunnel" at the register & every item would be recognized & charged up on the register. I don't know how it would work for fruits & vegetables.

...

​I'm sure that would work about as well as Ventra. Besides whether someone scanned the correct tag in the correct place, there would still be the usual problems of whether the machine recognized whether you put the item in the bagging area (a problem certainly avoided at Aldi, which does not bag), used the payment terminal in the correct manner, etc.

[BusHunter]

Since this has become a technology thread, both UPS and FedEx have electric vehicles in their fleets now. Chicago is actually a test city for FedEx with 120 electric trucks out of thousands of vehicles worldwide. (They say how many in the video) UPS is restricted to a California test. They asked them to compare the maintenance between a traditional truck and electric one and they said the maintenance was decreased by 70 to 80 percent. They have mechanics with nothing to do.

 

 

Frito-Lay even has an electric truck. Youtube also seems to have many people saying they can retrofit your car to electric for x amount of dollars. So not only are trucks and buses going this route, the retrofits are coming too. Everyone seems to be on the same thought.

They said a few years ago, the Arabs built up the city of Dubai with record construction including the Burj Kalifa because they needed a mecca of a city to draw in all the tourists like a Las Vegas for the rich because they see the oil production slowing down in the east and need another economic engine. They might be right if this trend continues.

Edited May 9, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

Since this has become a technology thread, both UPS and FedEx have electric vehicles in their fleets now. Chicago is actually a test city for FedEx with 120 electric trucks out of thousands of vehicles worldwide.....

The front of the UPS truck looks like a Freightliner, which gets you back to the story about the Freightliner autonomous semi in Las Vegas.

Also, I found attached to one of Lourdes's videos a Jay Leno's Garage on Proterra (which I thought had the inside edge on stuff like the CTA procurement). The main benefit seems the overhead charge connection, which they say allows the bus to be recharged in 10 minutes (normal driver layover time) and thus on the street 24 hours a day.

 

[Busjack]

...

Speaking of clean air and technology, I was reading in today's trib Nevada wants to let self driving semi trucks drive the interstate. Daimler who is putting this out though wants to test it further before implementing it to do actual loads between Las Vegas and Reno.   

​There was a story about it on ABC World News last night. In addition to a demonstration with "look, no hands or feet" they said one of the reasons was to make sure that a Tracy Morgan type accident did not result if the driver fell asleep.

Of course, here that immediately brings to mind Brittney Haywood, except they showed that the truck had all sorts of cameras and radar.

[jajuan]

The truck looks very similar to the hybrids I've seen rolling around my north side neighborhood for a while now.

[Busjack]

Motorweek just had a piece on Motiv Power, including the Chicago garbage truck. The owner's philosophy was "Cummins makes engines for all sorts of truck manufacturers, so why can't I make electric drives for them?"