Could a State shutdown Affect CTA?

[BusHunter]

Reading in the paper about the state shutting down July 1st has got me wondering what's going to happen to CTA. Madigan and the Gov seem to be in a stalemate and they are talking about a state shutdown with state workers not getting paid. CTA receives state aid. Could this have an immediate effect to us? A state shutdown means no aid at all, not a cut.

[Busjack]

Reading in the paper about the state shutting down July 1st has got me wondering what's going to happen to CTA. Madigan and the Gov seem to be in a stalemate and they are talking about a state shutdown with state workers not getting paid. CTA receives state aid. Could this have an immediate effect to us? A state shutdown means no aid at all, not a cut.

Only on the margin. Most of the tax subsidy is out of the RTA sales tax, which is not affected. Apparently state aid to localities is not affected. The only big effect would be on half fare reimbursements, but CTA was crying that that would be cut anyway.

Apparently, the big effects will be on state employees and vendors, but payments to vendors are still so far behind that they probably will continue to be paid from last year's appropriations for awhile.

Of course, I challenge anyone to figure out this Tribune article.

[MetroShadow]

I think the tl;dr of the article is just a long-winding ∞. I believe the effect on the agencies (for now) is minimal. 

[BusHunter]

Only on the margin. Most of the tax subsidy is out of the RTA sales tax, which is not affected. Apparently state aid to localities is not affected. The only big effect would be on half fare reimbursements, but CTA was crying that that would be cut anyway.

Apparently, the big effects will be on state employees and vendors, but payments to vendors are still so far behind that they probably will continue to be paid from last year's appropriations for awhile.

Of course, I challenge anyone to figure out this Tribune article.

I'm trying to figure it too before I was zonked by the pay website. Looks like in typical state fashion, they are trying to extend their problem instead of solving it. At least it buys time. Unpaid state workers are a bad thing to have and reflects negativity on the state.

The CPS I heard was zonking thousands of jobs to pay for it's pension plan. This state sounds even worse since Rauner arrived.

Then they have this minimum wage increase of 2 dollars in the city. Who is going to pay for that? Look in the mirror for the answer. I can imagine this is going to raise food and services prices in the city. I might have to do all my business in the suburbs if that's what happens.

Edited July 1, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

...

Then they have this minimum wage increase of 2 dollars in the city. Who is going to pay for that? Look in the mirror for the answer. I can imagine this is going to raise food and services prices in the city. I might have to do all my business in the suburbs if that's what happens.

• Somehow the paywall hit Firefox today.
• Don't forget Preckwinkle's proposal to reinstate the Stroger sales tax hike. As I told some self-proclaimed activist who somehow got his picture with Obama on a blog, and repeated Stroger's claim that his sales tax raise was "visionary," I suppose that he does most of his shopping in Du Page County, and even commissioner Beavers (before he went to jail) said he bought gas in Indiana because it was cheaper (he didn't mention that it was also on the way to the casino).

[Busjack]

In the meantime, the Daily Herald had Metra's and Pace's view on this. However, I don't see why Pace is complaining about paratransit because it gets the RTA tax off the top, unless it has also come to the realization (after about 5 years of advocating for the current program) that it squeezes the RTA tax money from the rest.

Updates: Not clear if the reference to raising fares $2 referred to fixed route or paratransit. City paratransit fares could go up legally from $3.00 to $4.50 given double the fixed fare.

Sun-Times has Dorval Carter less definite.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Busjack

[BusHunter]

In the meantime, the Daily Herald had Metra's and Pace's view on this. However, I don't see why Pace is complaining about paratransit because it gets the RTA tax off the top, unless it has also come to the realization (after about 5 years of advocating for the current program) that it squeezes the RTA tax money from the rest.

Updates: Not clear if the reference to raising fares $2 referred to fixed route or paratransit. City paratransit fares could go up legally from $3.00 to $4.50 given double the fixed fare.

Sun-Times has Dorval Carter less definite.

I heard the house blasted the one month extension plan, so that's out. While this doesn't seem too bad now, it has the potential to become a big monster with life changing implications. They probably have to get a budget in the next two months or Rauner will be known as the gov who destroyed Illinois.

On the teacher front, Rahm wants to raise real estate taxes to pay for there pension. One person pointed out he said he wouldn't raise taxes when he was elected and now he proposes doing just that. Where's my Rahm dartboard!!??

Edited July 2, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

I heard the house blasted the one month extension plan, so that's out. While this doesn't seem too bad now, it has the potential to become a big monster with life changing implications. They probably have to get a budget in the next two months or Rauner will be known as the gov who destroyed Illinois.

On the teacher front, Rahm wants to raise real estate taxes to pay for there pension. One person pointed out he said he wouldn't raise taxes when he was elected and now he proposes doing just that. Where's my Rahm dartboard!!??

Other than on the bus beat, I figure that all units of government in Illinois have hit the wall and the only answer is bankruptcy. You have Emanuel crying that he paid the teachers' pension payment by borrowing money, and then the Sun-Times reporting that the city wants to borrow the payment right back from the pension board at 7.75% interest.

Illinois, Chicago, and CPS are bankrupt, because they can't pay their debts when due.

[andrethebusman]

You have to realize that basically all of Illinois' problems stem from one thing - pensions. And abig part of the problem is that the actuaries were horribly, horribly wrong. Retirees are living linger than ever, and the government work force is steadily declining. See the problem? Fewer and few supporting more and more? There is only one way to deal with this problem. Repudiate the pensions and let the government fund that takes over when private companies repudiate their pensions take over. Then at least there is a bigger pool paying in. Otherwise at some point in the future 100% of all government revenues will go towards pensions, leaving nothing for anything else.

State employees have a problem. Since this is a winner-take-all and loser-gets-buried battle, it might take a while, and dare I say eventually lead to Rauner's forced resignation or impeachment? The other scenario is Rauner gets his three wishes: Disembowel the unions completely, cut workmens comp, and make a mockery of the minimum wage.

We as a nation are facing a choice as far as wages are concerned. Either we go for good paying jobs that are hard to get but once you get one you are set for life, or slave-wage jobs that are easy as picking fallen apples from the street to get but get you nowhere. The next few years will answer that question.

[Busjack]

...There is only one way to deal with this problem. Repudiate the pensions and let the government fund that takes over when private companies repudiate their pensions take over....

Looks like you are uninformed about what the state can legally do (Rauner was too until he read the opinion). Start, for instance, by reading the Illinois Supreme Court opinion,  which states at paragraph 46: "The protections afforded to such benefits by article XIII, section 5 attach once an individual first embarks upon employment in a position covered by a public retirement system, not when the employee ultimately retires. ... Accordingly, once an individual begins work and becomes a member of a public retirement system, any subsequent changes to the Pension Code that would diminish the benefits conferred by membership in the retirement system cannot be applied to that individual."

Second, the PBGC covers only private sector workers. In particular: "What PBGC Does Not Insure...federal, state, and local/municipal government pensions"

The only out,as Detroit demonstrated, was to declare bankruptcy, but 11 USC 109(-c) requires that the state authorize it. That only applies to municipalities, not the state itself. Thus, the state legislature could authorize any city, and even the CTA (since it is a municipal corporation) to declare bankruptcy, but the state itself cannot.

And, of course, since you have been and currently are a CTA employee, protected by the state pension clause, are you going to start lobbying for a constitutional amendment to repeal it, amendments to the Public Labor Relations Act to remove pensions from collective bargaining, etc.?

[BusHunter]

Kind of interesting, when you look at the history of recall elections, Gov. Gray Davis of California was recalled over the state budget. Illinois signed into law it could recall a Gov after the Blago scandal. If this goes on too long, don't be surprised if you hear about it being brought up. Something is going to have to be done because this budget has the potential to ruin the state. The state doesn't have the time or money to play I win, you lose games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election

I hear now more people are flocking to Chicago to get in on $10/hr. In a way that's not fair to everyone else. Someone flipping a burger is almost making what a regular joe makes. A CTA new hire is only making $16. If anything I think this promotes automation and companies will look at it like never before. This might actually keep companies out of Chicago, like Wal Mart that relies on cheap labor. It's like someone living on the Indiana border, I bet they do all their shopping and gas purchases there because it's cheaper. Companies are no different than people. Everyone is looking to save a buck.

BTW, Pace is offering jobs at almost $18 an hour, so who said they they were paying less?

[Busjack]

Kind of interesting, when you look at the history of recall elections, Gov. Gray Davis of California was recalled over the state budget. Illinois signed into law it could recall a Gov after the Blago scandal. If this goes on too long, don't be surprised if you hear about it being brought up. Something is going to have to be done because this budget has the potential to ruin the state. The state doesn't have the time or money to play I win, you lose games.

,,,,

Might be, but the Illinois one is conditioned on so many state legislators endorsing the petition by signing an authorizing affidavit, and if such happened, Rauner would immediately have commercials on how those legislators are doing Madigan's bidding to keep Madigan's iron first on power, including blocking term limits and a redistricting commission from the ballot. Also, to the degree that Quinn lost the last election, I don't think that any legislator wants to take the risk that Rauner, like Scott Walker, will win the recall election.

The other fly in the ointment is that half the legislators signing the affidavit must be of the opposite political party.

Hence, the recall amendment (Ill. Const. Art III sec 7) was another constitutional fraud perpetrated by the legislature, supposedly to do something in the wake of Blago.

[orionbuslover]

I hear now more people are flocking to Chicago to get in on $10/hr. In a way that's not fair to everyone else. Someone flipping a burger is almost making what a regular joe makes. A CTA new hire is only making $16. If anything I think this promotes automation and companies will look at it like never before. This might actually keep companies out of Chicago, like Wal Mart that relies on cheap labor. It's like someone living on the Indiana border, I bet they do all their shopping and gas purchases there because it's cheaper. Companies are no different than people. Everyone is looking to save a buck.

Not all CTA new hires make only $16. Im guessing you're talking about the bus operators. Continuously raising the minimum wage and the fight for $15 is hogwash in my eyes. Yes, a lot of private industries should share their profits more with the employees than the shareholders, but it shouldn't be mandated by government. Even in 2015, one can still go to school and obtain a formal education or trade and instatntly increase their earning potential.

[Busjack]

Not all CTA new hires make only $16. Im guessing you're talking about the bus operators. Continuously raising the minimum wage and the fight for $15 is hogwash in my eyes. Yes, a lot of private industries should share their profits more with the employees than the shareholders, but it shouldn't be mandated by government. Even in 2015, one can still go to school and obtain a formal education or trade and instatntly increase their earning potential.

According to the salary spreadsheet, about the only ones that are less are Rail Customer Service Assistant at $12.40-14.75 and Flagman at $13.71. I'm trying to remember if the CA positions used to be contracted out.

Janitors and Bus/Rail Car servicers make $27.42, although there are a few around $19, and again some half salary ones. There was, however the stink over those in the ex con program.

On those flocking for $10 jobs, the question in the private sector is whether they will do $10 worth of work. The answer will be if the service is better the next time you go to le Roi du Burger or Poulet Frit. du Colonel.

[orionbuslover]

According to the salary spreadsheet, about the only ones that are less are Rail Customer Service Assistant at $12.40-14.75 and Flagman at $13.71. I'm trying to remember if the CA positions used to be contracted out.

Janitors and Bus/Rail Car servicers make $27.42, although there are a few around $19, and again some half salary ones. There was, however the stink over those in the ex con program.

On those flocking for $10 jobs, the question in the private sector is whether they will do $10 worth of work. The answer will be if the service is better the next time you go to le Roi du Burger or Poulet Frit. du Colonel.

I guess I was being slightly ambiguous. I've seen the salary spread sheet before, so I was pointing out how CTA pays its staff very well. For those making less than $16, they have very nice benefits to go along with the take home pay. But those people you see making $20/hr and up, put in hard work in terms of education or skilled trade. They're not doing the least, and expecting the most like those BK and KFC workers.