2017 Pace Budget

[Busjack]

As @MetroShadow pointed out, it is available.

Looking for the thing of interest to me is this under the Capital Plan:

Rolling Stock ($50.518 Million)
• 76 Fixed route buses ($34.300 million): This project
funds 76 35’ and 40’ transit buses.

• 53 Fixed route small buses ($7.043 million): This
project funds 53 small buses that will be put into
Pace’s contract operated services with peak demand
of less than 23 passengers. The full size buses
being replaced will be added to Pace-operated
fixed route service.

Since paratransit and community vehicles are separate, I'm not sure what "small buses" means.However, $133,000 a bus doesn't get you an EZ Rider, so maybe they are going the Downers Grove (1951-1955) route.

The first item confirms my observation that they will need a new contract for fixed route buses and it is contemplated to buy some 35 foot ones. Aside from this probably being for North, a contract with ElDorado National California raises the question whether the 35 footers would be Axess or EZ Rider.

Update: The budget says at several points that the $7 million for the small buses is financed by a transfer from operating, because the RTA sales tax funding marks are favorable by that amount.

Anyone one else having observations, please post here.

 

 

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

As @MetroShadow pointed out, it is available.

Looking for the thing of interest to me is this under the Capital Plan:

Rolling Stock ($50.518 Million)
• 76 Fixed route buses ($34.300 million): This project
funds 76 35’ and 40’ transit buses.

• 53 Fixed route small buses ($7.043 million): This
project funds 53 small buses that will be put into
Pace’s contract operated services with peak demand
of less than 23 passengers. The full size buses
being replaced will be added to Pace-operated
fixed route service.

Since paratransit and community vehicles are separate, I'm not sure what "small buses" means.However, $133,000 a bus doesn't get you an EZ Rider, so maybe they are going the Downers Grove (1951-1955) route.

The first item confirms my observation that they will need a new contract for fixed route buses and it is contemplated to buy some 35 foot ones. Aside from this probably being for North, a contract with ElDorado National California raises the question whether the 35 footers would be Axess or EZ Rider.

 

Anyone one else having observations, please post here.

 

 

I know the numbers haven't always turned out to be accurate, but 76 buses equals the total number of 2003 NABIs (both 35' and 40') at N, NS, and W. The 6600s at River won't be needed anymore due to the I-90 improvements. The remaining 6600s at S could be retired by displaced 30 footers from the "small bus" order. "Small buses" is defined on page 106 as a bus less than 29', so I agree that they will be something like 1951-55. I think saying that the small buses will replace "full size" buses was a slight mistake, since we know that contractors have 30' buses which are defined as a "medium size bus". As for what else those displaced buses will replace, I don't know, unless they allow for expansion.

I also noticed they are working on an online reservation system for Call-n-Ride. I guess they'll have to start calling it Go-Online-n-Ride.

I'll have to read this more thoroughly tomorrow, since it looks like there's some interesting stuff in here.

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The remaining 6600s at S could be retired by displaced 30 footers from the "small bus" order.

If you mean replaced at South directly, those will be replaced by 40 foot CNGs.

22 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

76 buses equals the total number of 2003 NABIs at N, NS, and W

There aren't any at NS, those all went to S when NS got 6477-6484. So, you double counted. Also note that the 76 buses are both 35' and 40', not just 35'. For similar reasons to S, I don't think W is going to get 35' buses.

22 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

As for what else those displaced buses will replace, I don't know, unless they allow for expansion.

I can't tell either. Some would allow for expansion at FV, and routes like 604 and 608, and maybe the Barrington and Schaumburg distributors, but 53 is way more than that. Maybe some are returned to NW, and more significantly, NS, where, in NS's case, they would replace some 40 foot NABIs, But, unlike when EZ Riders displaced buses in Elgin and Joliet, which then resulted in scrapping buses at W and NS, I'm not sure what would happen. It is implied that some 40 and 35' NABIs would eventually be replaced by 30' buses.

 

22 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

I also noticed they are working on an online reservation system for Call-n-Ride. I guess they'll have to start calling it Go-Online-n-Ride.

I just saw that on page 83. However, it says that will exist while the drivers still manage calls, so I don't see how the driver still handling calls would work if not integrated with the online system.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

According to the 2017 proposed Budget Book (several places, but I'll cite Page 87) is that a new BoS between Toyota Park and downtown will be starting soon (the document says October, but...)

Says "in October, instituted a new Bus on Shoulder route departing from Toyota Park in Bridgeview.." Not sure what the author's frame of reference is, as it hasn't happened yet (search on the route finder for Toyota.Park only comes up with 386). Ambiguity also arises from the statement on page 84 "Service planned to the Toyota Park Transit Center includes the Toyota Park Express from Midway CTA station and routes 307 Harlem and 386 South Harlem," but later on on that page "New Bus on Shoulder service between the Toyota Park Transit Center and the East Loop is scheduled for a Fall 2016 implementation. The proposed new route provides three inbound and four outbound trips per weekday."

Either better editing or better promotion would be a good idea.

[Pace831]

24 minutes ago, Busjack said:

If you mean replaced at South directly, those will be replaced by 40 foot CNGs.

Possibly, but it had been debated previously whether 91 CNGs would be enough to replace South's entire fleet. I don't have the answer, but either way the 6600s will get replaced.

26 minutes ago, Busjack said:

There aren't any at NS, those all went to S when NS got 6477-6484. So, you double counted. Also note that the 76 buses are both 35' and 40', not just 35'. For similar reasons to S, I don't think W is going to get 35' buses.

My references to individual garages was only to clarify how I calculated the totals. I'm sure these acquisitions will cause a substantial amount of bus moves throughout the system, but due to the number of buses involved I won't even attempt to predict specifics. I did also clarify that my count of 76 NABIs referred to both 35' and 40' models, such as at N, but you must have quoted me before I edited. As for the buses at NS, I was going off the numbers on BusHunter's roster. Since you say 8 Eldorados replaced them, could you have gotten the 2003 and 2005 models confused because the roster shows 15 '03 buses and 8 '05 ones at NS. Even if they were moved though, the total remains the same.

27 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I just saw that on page 83. However, it says that will exist while the drivers still manage calls, so I don't see how the driver still handling calls would work if not integrated with the online system.

The onboard device has a reservation management system where the driver inputs phone reservations. This new online reservation system must be able to communicate with the onboard device, or else it wouldn't be able to check for conflicting reservations. The driver could still manually enter trip data for those who make a phone reservation.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, Pace831 said:

. I did also clarify that my count of 76 NABIs referred to both 35' and 40' models, such as at N, but you must have quoted me before I edited.

That isn't that. There were originally 84 6600s and 99 6162-6261 (total 183). Page 60 has 77 35' and 75 40' (total of 152 left). Even if there have been retirements since then, you still have only about 50% of what is on the active roster.

Also, another thing you miscalculated is that the I-90 project would eliminate the need for 6600s (or whatever) at R, as 606 is not on the list of the routes in that project''s brochure.  It seems to be treated as the local Algonquin Road route.

6 hours ago, Pace831 said:

. As for the buses at NS, I was going off the numbers on BusHunter's roster. Since you say 8 Eldorados replaced them, could you have gotten the 2003 and 2005 models confused because the roster shows 15 '03 buses and 8 '05 ones at NS.

My comment that NS doesn't have any 6600s is based on my observations at NS, plus @garmon757correctly pointing out that they are at S, and my seeing the former S 6653s and around there at Ravinia (including your pictures). It had nothing to do with that NS has both 2003 and 2005 NABI 40 footers. @BusHunter isn't authoritative on Pace.

 

[BusHunter]

What are you guys talking about I have no 6600s at ns and have the eldorados in the right spot. The roster should be correct at least up to 9/30. 

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

What are you guys talking about I have no 6600s at ns and have the eldorados in the right spot. The roster should be correct at least up to 9/30. 

Then it appears that @Pace831 is  confused.

[Pace831]

14 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Then it appears that @Pace831 is  confused.

Let me break this down more clearly. (Yes, I realize "BusHunter isn't authoritative", but his roster is accurate enough for the purposes of this discussion).

• 38 6600s at N
• 15 6162s at N
• 15 6162s at NS
• 8 6600s at W

For a total of 76. This is only counting the 2003 NABIs (6162s and 6600s), not the 2005 ones (6162s). It seems you thought I was counting 6600s at NS when I was actually counting 6162s.

As for the 8 at River, I doubt they want to continue using less than 40' buses on 606 due to the crowds on that route. I see your point that they won't necessarily be retired by the highway coaches that have already arrived. So the more likely scenario is that River/Dundee gets 8 Axess from somewhere else (maybe NS?), and that garage would in turn get some of the displaced 30' buses.

And I already mentioned the ones at south.

I didn't miscount any of the 2003 NABIs, since the totals are:

6162s:

• 15 at N
• 15 at NS
• 8 at W
• 61 at S

Total 99. Since the budget says 75, the roster probably doesn't account for retirements at S. Which also answers the question that if S has 24 buses less than what the roster says, 91 CNGs should be enough for full coverage there.

6600s :

• 38 at N
• 8 at R
• 11 at W
• 20 at S

Total 77, the same as what you cited.

[BusHunter]

Maybe busjacks under the weather. 

I dont get this authoritative comment either. It almost sounds like a personal  attack. Forum rules.....

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Maybe busjacks under the weather. 

I dont get this authoritative comment either. It almost sounds like a personal  attack. Forum rules.....

No I wasn't, but since @Pace831 cleared up what he meant, that's the end of it.

Only thing I would disagree with him is that if R got something from NS, it probably would be 6262s, but the issue would still be that the 15 2003 NABIs would have to be replaced first, which might be a target for the displaced 30 foot buses. By the same token, NW gave up something like 8 30 foot buses for routes like 465 and 895, so now might get some back.

[Assuming that the 25 6465s are mostly (but not entirely) growth,] 47 Eldos budgeted for 2016 but not reflected in the current fleet list in the 2017 budget,  71 CNGs to come, 76 fixed route buses, plus 53 small buses adds up to 267, which, if we again assume the 2017 fleet list, at least gets everything 2004 and older (232 buses) off the roster, I guess one can guess how many of the 2005 NABIs get knocked off by the remaining 35, or if those are growth. But based on the 5 year plan (which for Pace is always understated), the 2005 NABIs should be gone no later than 2019, probably 2018.

[MetroShadow]

If it is what I'm thinking of, those "small buses" are definitely going to be used for fixed routes with low ridership that doesn't justify a 30' bus. Right-sizing on the cheap may help eliminate the "empty bus" stigma, and would definitely offset those 35' buses that aren't as functional (than say those Orions).