O'Hare Airport Expansion

[artthouwill]

Recently  Mayor Rahm Emmanuel proposes an 8.5 billion dollar plan to expand the airport.  Among the items is a rebuilt Terminal 2 which would become the New International Terminal, additional gates and a new satellite  concourse.

Not in the mix is a western access to the airport and no new terminal with that.

American Airlines is balking because United will be getting 5 additional gates  in this deal.  

Up to mow, United and/or American could veto nearly any proposal not to their liking.  For instance, they have vetoed a new western  terminal because all the benefits would go to other airlines not named United or American.  They are the 2 largest and most dominant carriers at ORD.  They pay the most fees also.

If approved, the project could be completed as early as 2026.

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Not in the mix is a western access to the airport and no new terminal with that.

Some articles indicated that it would be done once the demand justified it, but there doesn't seem to be any urgency to that.

[artthouwill]

16 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Some articles indicated that it would be done once the demand justified it, but there doesn't seem to be any urgency to that.

I thought I read somewhere  that the West and northwest burbs have been pleading for at least the western access, which was the main reason for the eastward  extension of Illinois 390.  Then there's  that ring highway that is supposed to connect the Tri State (from Franklin Park) with IL 390 and I 90 in Elk Grove Village.

[Tcmetro]

Some of the concepts presented for the O'Hare plan included a tunnel extending 190 to where the 390-490 interchange would be. I think a western terminal and an expressway tunnel would be mutually contingent, and clearly with the recent announcements, in the long term if ever. 

 

I wonder if they'll add a Blue Line stop at Terminal 5 or if direct service will simply be left to the O'Hare Express train.  

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

On the Piccadilly Line in London, the trains going to Heathrow either have Terminals 2, 3, and 5 on their destination signs, or Terminals 4, 2, and 3. Terminals 2 and 3 is a bi-directional station that is always served regardless of the train, but Terminal 4 is on a unidirectional loop that sends the trains back to London via the Terminals 2 & 3 station (basically like old South Ferry on the 1 train in NYC), and Terminal 5 is a typical terminal station further down past Terminals 2 & 3. Therefore there isn’t a normal in service train that serves both Terminals 4 and 5, and there isn’t even a connecting track between the two stations. Maybe this will happen at O’Hare, but who knows.

I also wonder how this will change the passenger loads on the airport train.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

On the Piccadilly Line in London, the trains going to Heathrow either have Terminals 2, 3, and 5 on their destination signs, or Terminals 4, 2, and 3. Terminals 2 and 3 is a bi-directional station that is always served regardless of the train, but Terminal 4 is on a unidirectional loop that sends the trains back to London via the Terminals 2 & 3 station (basically like old South Ferry on the 1 train in NYC), and Terminal 5 is a typical terminal station further down past Terminals 2 & 3. Therefore there isn’t a normal in service train that serves both Terminals 4 and 5, and there isn’t even a connecting track between the two stations. Maybe this will happen at O’Hare, but who knows.

I also wonder how this will change the passenger loads on the airport train.

Currently  the heaviest loads on the ATS is between the domestic and international  terminals.  By moving the International Terminal to Terminal 2, this should eliminate traffic connecting between  domestic and international flights.  Moving walkways will be constructed to connect the core terminals.  The question  becomes what airlines will be shifted to Terminal 5?  As the Blue Line is still in the median of I 190, public transit users will still need to use the ATS to access Terminal 5, but T5  users will be more originating and destination passengers as opposed to connecting  passengers.  I didn't  see anything mentioning extending the Blue Line westward.   I haven't been  on I 390 east of I 290 to see if a median was built to accommodate Blue Line service to Schaumburg.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The question  becomes what airlines will be shifted to Terminal 5?

United and American stay where they are; terminal 2 are their international operations and partners, and Terminal 5 becomes the remaining international and their domestic partners.

 

9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 I haven't been  on I 390 east of I 290 to see if a median was built to accommodate Blue Line service to Schaumburg.

The plan 15 years ago was to use I-90, but obviously the Flex lane killed that.

[artthouwill]

Uber and Lyft may e on the move at ORD.   I have been  told that Uber drivers received a message from Uber stating that, effective  November 1st, the passenger  pickup  zones for Uber riders will move from the upper level at ORD to the consoliatedparking garage area at Manheim and Zemke.  Passengers  wishing to take Uber and Lyftwould have to take shuttle buses to the new location.

I suppose this is an effort to alleviate the  gridlock on the upper level at ORD  caused by the combination of  several Uber/Lyft  cars dropping  off and picking up  along with the numerous shuttle buses. 

Cabbies and limos are hopeful that the  inconvenience to Uber/Lyft riders will bring a lot of ridership  back to them, though I think UberX and UberBlack will still load on the lower level. 

[west towns]

Some good news for dropping off at ohare

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, west towns said:

Some good news for dropping off at ohare

However, you didn't say what it was.

[artthouwill]

Today there are shuttle buses running from the airport to Parking Lot F.  I have to see if that is the new Parking garage or another lot that's been  renamed F Lot.  In any case, those buses are operating  by Continental  Air Transport.   Delaware  Car still operates shuttles  between  O'Hare and the  Metra O'Hare Transfer  Station.

UPDATE: The new parking garage is Lot F.  Buses stop in the front of the building where the new ATS Station is located.  Interestingly, these buses boarded at the airport on the Lower Level.   I didn't  pay much attention, but I realized I don't think I  saw any Hertz, Avis National buses today.  I will have to confirm, but maybe  the Consolidated facility and/or the Parking garage is open.  Also trying to verify if Uber and Lyft pickups have relocated there.

 

[jesi2282]

17 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Today there are shuttle buses running from the airport to Parking Lot F.  I have to see if that is the new Parking garage or another lot that's been  renamed F Lot.  In any case, those buses are operating  by Continental  Air Transport.   Delaware  Car still operates shuttles  between  O'Hare and the  Metra O'Hare Transfer  Station.

UPDATE: The new parking garage is Lot F.  Buses stop in the front of the building where the new ATS Station is located.  Interestingly, these buses boarded at the airport on the Lower Level.   I didn't  pay much attention, but I realized I don't think I  saw any Hertz, Avis National buses today.  I will have to confirm, but maybe  the Consolidated facility and/or the Parking garage is open.  Also trying to verify if Uber and Lyft pickups have relocated there.

 

Avis, Hertz and all of the other car rental companies ended their shuttle operations on Oct. 31 when the new facility opened. Each company has their buses parked and lined up in their lots off of Bessie Coleman.

As far as the lower level, I believe their using the former rental car shuttle bus stops at each terminal. Also it helps to reduce conflict with the chaotic traffic on the upper level.

[artthouwill]

35 minutes ago, jesi2282 said:

Avis, Hertz and all of the other car rental companies ended their shuttle operations on Oct. 31 when the new facility opened. Each company has their buses parked and lined up in their lots off of Bessie Coleman.

As far as the lower level, I believe their using the former rental car shuttle bus stops at each terminal. Also it helps to reduce conflict with the chaotic traffic on the upper level.

The rental shuttles always have  used the lower level.  The only difference now is the buses are all white and they all go to one location.  

As for Uber and Lyft, they are still picking up on the upper level and still causing congestion. I understand that  their staging  area has moved to Balmoral Ave east of I 294.

[BusHunter]

On 11/2/2018 at 6:57 AM, artthouwill said:

The rental shuttles always have  used the lower level.  The only difference now is the buses are all white and they all go to one location.  

As for Uber and Lyft, they are still picking up on the upper level and still causing congestion. I understand that  their staging  area has moved to Balmoral Ave east of I 294.

Yeah it's New Flyer heaven at ohare nothing but shiny new 40 footers. Saw two different types of tail ends though one was off the shelf like the 6400s. and one is like the cta spec 1000s. 

As far as uber/lyft the staging was always on balmoral theres nothing different there. Perhaps if they were smart they would relocate all rideshare to terminal 5. Seems kind of dead there. The terminal 3 pickup is a zoo. Everyone must fly American. 

Damn so the new rental car facilities are open. I'm going to have to check that out. I've been watching the ats hoping to see the new cars in service but they are still running the old trains. How in the heck is the ats staying afloat? Maybe cause it's the winter? The car rentals go crazy with business in the summer and ohare is a virtual parking lot. Really dysfunctional. 

[artthouwill]

Today at ORD I noticed that the city walked of baggage  claim carousels 1 and 2 at Terminal 2.  Someone  told be those carousels are being renovated.  There are  supposedly two airlines that will be moving into Terminal  2.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Today at ORD I noticed that the city walked of baggage  claim carousels 1 and 2 at Terminal 2.  Someone  told be those carousels are being renovated.  There are  supposedly two airlines that will be moving into Terminal  2.

New airline service is good. Putting them at Terminal 2, not so much. Unfortunately it seems like the only choice now.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

New airline service is good. Putting them at Terminal 2, not so much. Unfortunately it seems like the only choice now.

I don't think  it's new service as much as relocating 2 airlines from other terminals

  The only real candidates are Spirit. Jet Blue, Alaska, Frontier, and Air Choice One.  Frontier  relocated to  Terminal 5 earlier this year. 

[BusHunter]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Today at ORD I noticed that the city walked of baggage  claim carousels 1 and 2 at Terminal 2.  Someone  told be those carousels are being renovated.  There are  supposedly two airlines that will be moving into Terminal  2.

Today Air New Zealand was flying its first flight out of ohare direct to Auckland. I was talking with a reporter covering the story. He said the flight is 17 hrs and it took off 7 tonight. He was there at noon though. Air New Zealands CEO was there. He said the longest flight is nyc to Singapore 19 hrs. I asked him why Qantas doesnt fly out of ohare and he says they are interested. I guess these dreamliners have a good range. Those are the planes they use. I'm a plane nut so I asked him why I haven't seen a British Airways A380 out of ohare cause they were saying to my shock an a380 has been to ohare.  He said it only flies apr to Oct. It's just one flight I dont know which one though. 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Today Air New Zealand was flying its first flight out of ohare direct to Auckland. I was talking with a reporter covering the story. He said the flight is 17 hrs and it took off 7 tonight. He was there at noon though. Air New Zealands CEO was there. He said the longest flight is nyc to Singapore 19 hrs. I asked him why Qantas doesnt fly out of ohare and he says they are interested. I guess these dreamliners have a good range. Those are the planes they use. I'm a plane nut so I asked him why I haven't seen a British Airways A380 out of ohare cause they were saying to my shock an a380 has been to ohare.  He said it only flies apr to Oct. It's just one flight I dont know which one though. 

I believe Qantas did in fact express interest in flying to O’Hare, but was waiting on their 787s to do so. Those things have awesome range and economics. They’re pulling off Perth to London flights with the -9. Interesting how the ANZ CEO would discuss it though...

As for the BA A380 flights, Flight 295 brings the A380 from London to O’Hare, while Flight 294 takes it back to Heathrow. Those flight numbers are used year round, but as you said, the A380 isn’t. At other times it can be a 747 (which are wonderful anyways), or a 777.

[artthouwill]

15 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Today Air New Zealand was flying its first flight out of ohare direct to Auckland. I was talking with a reporter covering the story. He said the flight is 17 hrs and it took off 7 tonight. He was there at noon though. Air New Zealands CEO was there. He said the longest flight is nyc to Singapore 19 hrs. I asked him why Qantas doesnt fly out of ohare and he says they are interested. I guess these dreamliners have a good range. Those are the planes they use. I'm a plane nut so I asked him why I haven't seen a British Airways A380 out of ohare cause they were saying to my shock an a380 has been to ohare.  He said it only flies apr to Oct. It's just one flight I dont know which one though. 

Based on what you are saying,  maybe Frontier will be one of the two airlines moving to Terminal 2.  I'm thinking Spirit could be the other one.  I know Terminal 5 is also due for a gate expansion but I don't know the time frame for that.

[BusHunter]

10 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Based on what you are saying,  maybe Frontier will be one of the two airlines moving to Terminal 2.  I'm thinking Spirit could be the other one.  I know Terminal 5 is also due for a gate expansion but I don't know the time frame for that.

Frontier was flying a flight out tonight fo Denver. I was like how does fly domestically out of terminal 5? I thought those were the international only flights. 

Tonight I drove over to the rental car facility as I was working really close by. . It really goes far back it looks small from mannheim until you get close to it it's a different story. 

No Uber's at ohare tonight place is a ghost town but Saturdays are the slowest days there 

 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

30 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Frontier was flying a flight out tonight fo Denver. I was like how does fly domestically out of terminal 5? I thought those were the international only flights. 

Tonight I drove over to the rental car facility as I was working really close by. . It really goes far back it looks small from mannheim until you get close to it...

Any flight can depart Terminal 5 normally because you go through customs after you arrive at your destination. Similar to how ANA and Lufthansa leave from Terminal 1 and Japan Airlines and Iberia leave from Terminal 3. Every airline that flys into O’Hare from a different country is required to let its passengers out at Terminal 5 so they can go through Customs, unless they went through customs in the country before they boarded their flight. Frontier is able to use Terminal 5 as a domestic terminal because of the way the jet bridges are set up. If you ever board or get off a flight at Terminals 1 2 or 3, you’ll notice that the jet bridge only takes you to the waiting area where all the people are probably crowding around the gate agent waiting to get on. I don’t know if Terminal 5 is set up like this, but the jet bridges in Atlanta, Seoul, and Hong Kong are set up so when they get to the terminal building they split into an path going up and a path going down. When you’re boarding the plane, you will leave your waiting area (like a normal terminal) and come from the upper path. The door to the lower path is closed, so you continue straight on to the jet bridge and on to your plane. When you get off the plane at your destination, the door will be open to the lower path, and the door to the upper path will be closed, so you have to take the lower path that leads to a central corridor underneath the waiting areas that goes straight to customs. When all the passengers are off the plane, the doors change, and departing passengers can board the plane. For Frontier, the solution is probably to just use the upper path for arriving and departing passengers, since they don’t need to go through customs on domestic flights.

 

And ever time I pass by O’Hare on I-90 I see the rental car center. That thing is HUGE!

[artthouwill]

16 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Any flight can depart Terminal 5 normally because you go through customs after you arrive at your destination. Similar to how ANA and Lufthansa leave from Terminal 1 and Japan Airlines and Iberia leave from Terminal 3. Every airline that flys into O’Hare from a different country is required to let its passengers out at Terminal 5 so they can go through Customs, unless they went through customs in the country before they boarded their flight. Frontier is able to use Terminal 5 as a domestic terminal because of the way the jet bridges are set up. If you ever board or get off a flight at Terminals 1 2 or 3, you’ll notice that the jet bridge only takes you to the waiting area where all the people are probably crowding around the gate agent waiting to get on. I don’t know if Terminal 5 is set up like this, but the jet bridges in Atlanta, Seoul, and Hong Kong are set up so when they get to the terminal building they split into an path going up and a path going down. When you’re boarding the plane, you will leave your waiting area (like a normal terminal) and come from the upper path. The door to the lower path is closed, so you continue straight on to the jet bridge and on to your plane. When you get off the plane at your destination, the door will be open to the lower path, and the door to the upper path will be closed, so you have to take the lower path that leads to a central corridor underneath the waiting areas that goes straight to customs. When all the passengers are off the plane, the doors change, and departing passengers can board the plane. For Frontier, the solution is probably to just use the upper path for arriving and departing passengers, since they don’t need to go through customs on domestic flights.

 

And ever time I pass by O’Hare on I-90 I see the rental car center. That thing is HUGE!

That explains the middle level at Terminal 5.  That is the level for arriving international passengers.   The question is if customs is on that level?

Remember the rental car  facilities double a remote parking lot F.  I don't know  how cheap it is compared to  lots G and H.  Usually the furthest lit is the cheapest.   In this case, F is the furthest. 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

That explains the middle level at Terminal 5.  That is the level for arriving international passengers.   The question is if customs is on that level?

Remember the rental car  facilities double a remote parking lot F.  I don't know  how cheap it is compared to  lots G and H.  Usually the furthest lit is the cheapest.   In this case, F is the furthest. 

Not sure about customs at O’Hare, as I haven’t arrived at T5, only departed. It could be on the same level, or have stairs to somewhere else.

Didn’t notice it was also lot F as well. Thanks for the info.

[artthouwill]

Trying to get a  confirmation,  but I'm hearing Pace will move the terminal for the 250 and the 330 to the Multimodal facility in February.