Labor shortage, missing buses and trains, and inaccurate trackers

[Busjack]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:26 AM, rl12383 said:

Anyone able to read this article regarding CTA train and bus service? Sounds like its about the shortage of staff and missed runs occurring througout the system:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-cta-train-bus-schedule-wait-20211209-dd5aketifnefhnrtw6lsucleeq-story.html

On 6/23/2022 at 10:32 AM, Tcmetro said:

Nearly every transit agency in the country has adjusted service levels due to the operator shortage. Yet CTA continues to ignore the problem.

It's better to run a line every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes with a skipped run.

Once all that federal money runs out in a couple years I'm sure they'll be more than happy to start trimming the schedule.

This article appears to explain what is going on, but appears that what @Tcmetro said 4 months ago is still the case. It appears that:

• People are relying on the "next bus" or "next train" estimate, but that's often the schedule rather than real time.
• [Inconceivable to me] Brian Steele says CTA has to negotiate the timetables with the unions. He also said that happens every 6 months, but the labor shortage problem has lasted longer than that.
• The Blue Line is a mess [but that's what that activist group was tracking].

[artthouwill]

28 minutes ago, Busjack said:

This article appears to explain what is going on, but appears that what @Tcmetro said 4 months ago is still the case. It appears that:

• People are relying on the "next bus" or "next train" estimate, but that's often the schedule rather than real time.
• [Inconceivable to me] Brian Steele says CTA has to negotiate the timetables with the unions. He also said that happens every 6 months, but the labor shortage problem has lasted longer than that.
• The Blue Line is a mess [but that's what that activist group was tracking].

The Blue Line is an adventure every day.  Sometimes there's a two minute gap between trains and then there's a  15 minute gap.   Running express on the Forest Park branch doesn't improve the separation between trains because of the slow zones. 

I suppose adjusting the schedule wouldn't make sense necessarily because of the fluctuations of call offs, vacations, and shortages on a day to day basis. Then there are the rare days that everyone does show up to work.  The absences vary from day to day be it regular workers, part timers, extra board, or even supervisors.  Most transit agencies don't run the frequency CTA does. Heck, Pace has suspended routes, cut service,  or trios out of other routes and they still have trouble filling routes Sometimes. 

Looking at posted CTA schedules in the train station,  most routes show frequencies through most of the day, I e. Every 3 to 8 minutes until X time.  Then every 8 to 12 minutes until Y time.  So most passengers don't know the actual schedule unless they ride a particular train every day.  Then on top of that, add vehicle malfunctions, crime incidents, track maintenance   sick passengers.   I personally appreciate CTA'S attempting to run a full schedule. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I suppose adjusting the schedule wouldn't make sense necessarily because of the fluctuations of call offs, vacations, and shortages on a day to day basis. Then there are the rare days that everyone does show up to work.  The absences vary from day to day be it regular workers, part timers, extra board, or even supervisors. 

It depends on what the nature of the shortage is. If it is sporadic absences, CTA should be able to figure out what the average attendance is, and either have an adequate extra board or offer overtime. While such factors are mentioned in the May Presentation, the focus is on the Great Resignation and inability to fill vacancies. Based on that, CTA should know that a certain percentage of service should be cut (similar to the last Doomsday).

[strictures]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

This article appears to explain what is going on, but appears that what @Tcmetro said 4 months ago is still the case. It appears that:

• People are relying on the "next bus" or "next train" estimate, but that's often the schedule rather than real time.
• [Inconceivable to me] Brian Steele says CTA has to negotiate the timetables with the unions. He also said that happens every 6 months, but the labor shortage problem has lasted longer than that.
• The Blue Line is a mess [but that's what that activist group was tracking].

Was waiting for a NB 151 at Sheridan/Winthrop today, Sunday Oct. 16. Ventra showed it was a 38 minute wait at about 2:30 PM!  Schedule calls for 20 minute headway.

[Tcmetro]

CTA did reduce train service in August. They put out a press release and updated the GTFS, but didn't bother with the paper/PDF schedules.

From what I can tell, the "Brownage" runs aren't happening, weekend Brown and Orange line service was reduced to every 12 mins, Red on Saturday to 7-8, Red on Sunday to 10, Blue on Sunday to every 12 minutes. Also, it seems that rush hour frequencies were reduced on Red, Blue, and Purple slightly. All Blue Line trains go to FP now, except for the two trips from 54th Yard and the Saturday UIC short-turns.

In reality, I don't think this will actually improve service levels (that's dependent on operator availability), but service should become more reliable. I hope they can replicate this on the bus side soon.

[Busjack]

Sun-Times says CTA will adjust rail schedules on a somewhat permanent basis on Sunday, Oct. 23. It also explained that it had to be negotiated with ATU 308 because it is part of the pick process.

[Busjack]

CTA has published a scorecard on progress made on restoring service. The November one has all sorts of metrics, but I don't know how much better things are. The Press Release says that the Brown and Orange Lines are running more than 90% of scheduled weekday trips, but doesn't say that the 6 Brownage trips were cut.  The Blue Line is still abysmal.

[Busjack]

Evanston Roundtable study on the reliability of the Purple and other lines after the optimization service cuts.  Conclusion was that both local and express lost about 18% of its runs, and it appears (understandably), that when the Red Line is short, the Purple Line suffers. There's also criticism of the trackers,* and the flack's statement: “as with all other workforces, just as new hires are brought on board, additional vacancies are being created through attrition or job promotions and reassignments.”

_____________

*I can't figure out why they are testing if the different apps are equally unreliable, since the use the same data from CTA.

[andrethebusman99]

CTA is losing more than they are hiring, this is a major problem. Only answer I can see is be more lenient and not be so eager to fire people. Years ago CTA had an incredibly low attrition rate because they understood people are not perfect. Then they decided to "tighten up" on discipline, and now we see the results. Tighten up enough and you will see turnover go higher and higher as it takes less and less to get canned. Used to be the discipline of choice was suspension for a few days, now it is discharge. This is why 20 years ago it took years to get hired, now they have "hiring events" desperately looking for new victims. (Sadly this is now normal in most transit systems...) 

[andrethebusman99]

CTA has had problems with service gaps as long as I can remember, going back to 1960s. But a gap on a three minute street is not as bad as a gap on a 20 minute street. First case you might wait 10 minutes, then three show up. In the latter, it might be an hour.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, andrethebusman99 said:

CTA is losing more than they are hiring, this is a major problem. Only answer I can see is be more lenient and not be so eager to fire people. Years ago CTA had an incredibly low attrition rate because they understood people are not perfect. Then they decided to "tighten up" on discipline, and now we see the results. Tighten up enough and you will see turnover go higher and higher as it takes less and less to get canned. Used to be the discipline of choice was suspension for a few days, now it is discharge. This is why 20 years ago it took years to get hired, now they have "hiring events" desperately looking for new victims. (Sadly this is now normal in most transit systems...) 

Throughout my life, TV News has gotten more investigative.  So when the media shines its lights on you, the glare and the negative publicity becomes burdensome.  You know the glare is bad when news crews spend the day  clocking the speed of buses with their own radar guns

  Therefore CTA cannot be perceived as an agency that doesn't value safety.  Therefore things that might have been overlooked in the 1950s and 1960s become fireable offenses in the 1980s.  

Society has also become more likely to sue.  Lawsuits are increasingly being filed with bigger payouts.  

Once upon a time,  being a bus driver was a job that was held in high esteem.   I would say that since the 1970s,  that was no longer the case.   The increase in "minority" and "women" being hired coupled with the increases in union wages fueled that negative perception even more.  Compare to the perception of railroad engineers and conductors.  

[strictures]

7 hours ago, andrethebusman99 said:

CTA has had problems with service gaps as long as I can remember, going back to 1960s. But a gap on a three minute street is not as bad as a gap on a 20 minute street. First case you might wait 10 minutes, then three show up. In the latter, it might be an hour.

Clark is supposed to be a 12 minute street, yet in the past three weeks, I've had four times where the wait was over 40 minutes!  The absolute worst was at the Howard terminal three weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon, where Run P227 sat back at where they drop off passengers for the L, for the entire 45 minutes, was passed by another Clark run after 30 minutes of waiting that simply blew past the dozen waiting for the bus & then 15 minutes later, P227 pulled up & immediately took off on her run!

This last Wednesday, it was over 50 minutes for a NB Clark at Devon, which meant there were no SB Clarks for over an hour.

All that time, the Broadways are running on 12 minute headways!  Cut out a few Broadway runs & move them to Clark!

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Throughout my life, TV News has gotten more investigative.  So when the media shines its lights on you, the glare and the negative publicity becomes burdensome.  You know the glare is bad when news crews spend the day  clocking the speed of buses with their own radar guns

  Therefore CTA cannot be perceived as an agency that doesn't value safety.  Therefore things that might have been overlooked in the 1950s and 1960s become fireable offenses in the 1980s.  

Society has also become more likely to sue.  Lawsuits are increasingly being filed with bigger payouts.  

Once upon a time,  being a bus driver was a job that was held in high esteem.   I would say that since the 1970s,  that was no longer the case.   The increase in "minority" and "women" being hired coupled with the increases in union wages fueled that negative perception even more.  Compare to the perception of railroad engineers and conductors.  

Not to mention TV reports of drivers peeing out the back door.

However, if there are as many disciplinary firings as @andrethebusman99 says, there aren't many Section 28 appeals challenging them. However, I would assume that there are better job opportunities than a CTA job maxing out at $36/hour.

[artthouwill]

48 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Not to mention TV reports of drivers peeing out the back door.

However, if there are as many disciplinary firings as @andrethebusman99 says, there aren't many Section 28 appeals challenging them. However, I would assume that there are better job opportunities than a CTA job maxing out at $36/hour.

Not to mention the increase in crime on CTA buses and trains where operators are being assaulted

 

[BusOps]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:03 PM, Busjack said:

 I would assume that there are better job opportunities than a CTA job maxing out at $36/hour.

Top pay is $39.53

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, BusOps said:

Top pay is $39.53

Yep, according to the salary spreadsheet.

[andrethebusman99]

You eventually hit a point where the hassles of a job become so great that even $39 an hour is no longer enough to make people stick with that job. Between harassment by the passengers, harassment by management, and a general lack of respect for driving a bus, maybe that point has been reached in Chicago and many CTA employees see their jobs as basically a rat race. If a person feels what he is doing is not appreciated by anyone, if another opportunity with less stress, less uncertainty comes along, he is likely to really consider it, even if it pays less. If fewer are contesting their discharges, maybe this is an indication they no longer care and are becoming happy to leave the rat race. Here in Vegas when I was driving a bus 2001-05 we had nearly a 100 percent a year turnover in drivers. Too many things to get fired over (hitting a tree branch with mirror, even if mirror survives, if somebody reports you), too much involuntary overtime (second full run if no relief, working 6 and 7 days under pain of immediate discharge, passengers cursing and spitting on drivers because of missed intervals causing huge gaps (often hour plus)). They had to resort to rehiring the fired after a "decent interval" as new victims were becoming more and more difficult to lure, to keep things from completely falling apart, I knew some who had made three and four trips thru the mill. Things SEEM to have quieted down some now, but hard to tell as I am no longer in the business here.

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, andrethebusman99 said:

You eventually hit a point where the hassles of a job become so great that even $39 an hour is no longer enough to make people stick with that job. Between harassment by the passengers, harassment by management, and a general lack of respect for driving a bus, maybe that point has been reached in Chicago and many CTA employees see their jobs as basically a rat race. If a person feels what he is doing is not appreciated by anyone, if another opportunity with less stress, less uncertainty comes along, he is likely to really consider it, even if it pays less. If fewer are contesting their discharges, maybe this is an indication they no longer care and are becoming happy to leave the rat race. Here in Vegas when I was driving a bus 2001-05 we had nearly a 100 percent a year turnover in drivers. Too many things to get fired over (hitting a tree branch with mirror, even if mirror survives, if somebody reports you), too much involuntary overtime (second full run if no relief, working 6 and 7 days under pain of immediate discharge, passengers cursing and spitting on drivers because of missed intervals causing huge gaps (often hour plus)). They had to resort to rehiring the fired after a "decent interval" as new victims were becoming more and more difficult to lure, to keep things from completely falling apart, I knew some who had made three and four trips thru the mill. Things SEEM to have quieted down some now, but hard to tell as I am no longer in the business here.

I  jear much of what you are saying,  but I want to address a couple of things.   Hitting a tree limb with a mirror today is different than it was back in the day.  Now with heated mirrors, some with remote control,  what was once just a cosmetic scrape is now  a $2k repair as the entire mirror assembly has to be replaced.  These buses today are also rolling computers.   I thought I mentioned somewhere in this forum that litigation has forced transit agencies to pay attention to things that were once overlooked. 

Another thing I have noticed is that the quality of transit workers has gone down.  Since field supervisors and such come from these ranks, they have gone down too.  It's a shame that I know more about getting around on the system than many operators and supervisors that WORK for the system.  

While it's not the driver's fault that there's a huge gap in service, he should be aware enough to know that a bus may have a breakdown on his route, or just by observation know there are buses missing on his route.  He may not know why, but he can express empathy .  

There aren't many jobs that management isn't garbage.  People just have to put their head down and work.  Don't try to make friends and have fun with supervisors and coworkers.  When I had to drive a bus the only thing I had control over was my bus.  As a dispatcher. I was responsible for the operation  and did everything I could to make it work,  but obviously I needed the driver cooperation to get it done. 

[andrethebusman99]

I s

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I  jear much of what you are saying,  but I want to address a couple of things.   Hitting a tree limb with a mirror today is different than it was back in the day.  Now with heated mirrors, some with remote control,  what was once just a cosmetic scrape is now  a $2k repair as the entire mirror assembly has to be replaced.  These buses today are also rolling computers.   I thought I mentioned somewhere in this forum that litigation has forced transit agencies to pay attention to things that were once overlooked. 

Another thing I have noticed is that the quality of transit workers has gone down.  Since field supervisors and such come from these ranks, they have gone down too.  It's a shame that I know more about getting around on the system than many operators and supervisors that WORK for the system.  

While it's not the driver's fault that there's a huge gap in service, he should be aware enough to know that a bus may have a breakdown on his route, or just by observation know there are buses missing on his route.  He may not know why, but he can express empathy .  

There aren't many jobs that management isn't garbage.  People just have to put their head down and work.  Don't try to make friends and have fun with supervisors and coworkers.  When I had to drive a bus the only thing I had control over was my bus.  As a dispatcher. I was responsible for the operation  and did everything I could to make it work,  but obviously I needed the driver cooperation to get it done. 

I agree with all of this, but this is still the reason why almost all transit agencies have staff shortages. You expect more than people are reasonably able to deliver, and permanent staff shortages result, which result is more problems, which result in more saying "f this!". Basically a downward spiral.

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, andrethebusman99 said:

I agree with all of this, but this is still the reason why almost all transit agencies have staff shortages. You expect more than people are reasonably able to deliver, and permanent staff shortages result, which result is more problems, which result in more saying "f this!". Basically a downward spiral.

(emphasis added).

It isn't just transit agencies. The whole labor market has been dislocated. You said you last drove a bus in 2005 (and previously complained that it was a contract operation). In the past couple of years, there have been extreme health care staff shortages, with LPNs getting paid 3 times as much if they work for agencies instead of directly for nursing homes (and most of them aren't competent). People who drive can now do ride share, and at least in the suburbs, taxi companies are no different than ride shares, as the drivers have to own or lease their own vehicles and the companies use computerized dispatch.  I've had instances when the taxi app couldn't schedule me for 1-1/2 hours, but Uber did in 6 minutes, and you can't reserve in advance. If we still have a 2000-2010 economy, how does the UAW ask for 40% raises, and apparently 20% is conceded? There was a column from a sever at Gene and Georgetti against doing away with the tipped differential, because the average server makes $28/hour. I suppose that has nothing to do with the McWage, but fast food customers  mostly use the drive through and order on the app, and when they open their bag, find that the order is wrong.

If nothing else, the push to offer CDL classes shows that transit is trying to do something to reverse the spiral. However, at least the northern divisions of Pace are now pretty much limited to school traffic, not so much because of a driver shortage, but because the suburban office and mall markets have collapsed. The future may be like Reimagine RTS, with everything outside the core being mini-bus (On Demand, primarily), and despite having been in litigation with the school bus companies, had to reduce frequency because of a "R[ochester]C[ity]S[chool]D[istrict] transportation crisis"--i.e. lack of school bus drivers, resulting in a Neighborhood Direct system of school trips.

My conclusion is that the labor market is working just as the neocons suggested, but now they don't like it.

[Nitro]

On 10/16/2022 at 2:40 PM, Busjack said:

This article appears to explain what is going on, but appears that what @Tcmetro said 4 months ago is still the case. It appears that:

• People are relying on the "next bus" or "next train" estimate, but that's often the schedule rather than real time.
• [Inconceivable to me] Brian Steele says CTA has to negotiate the timetables with the unions. He also said that happens every 6 months, but the labor shortage problem has lasted longer than that.
• The Blue Line is a mess [but that's what that activist group was tracking].

I mean NY is going through a similar problem though even worse.

[andrethebusman99]

I remember when all you did was walk over to the bus stop, and at most in 10-12 minutes something would almost certainly show up. The less service, the less customers. When transferring, if I was only going to ride the next route a couple of blocks, I would wait. Now, if I don't see anything coming, I just walk. Anybody who is middle aged or older certainly sees how transit has deteriorated, the twentysomethings and thirtysomethings don't know any better, and think half hourly service is excellent. We old folks know better.

[artthouwill]

35 minutes ago, andrethebusman99 said:

I remember when all you did was walk over to the bus stop, and at most in 10-12 minutes something would almost certainly show up. The less service, the less customers. When transferring, if I was only going to ride the next route a couple of blocks, I would wait. Now, if I don't see anything coming, I just walk. Anybody who is middle aged or older certainly sees how transit has deteriorated, the twentysomethings and thirtysomethings don't know any better, and think half hourly service is excellent. We old folks know better.

The one thing I find ironic is that people complain about a quarter ( 25 cent) fare hike, but will spend $25 or more on an Uber or Lyft.  Granted. Ride shares provide door to door service  and its a e4 hr anytime anywhere thing.  But the bottom line is drivers have to work for transit to work.  Without workers, the schedule means nothing, and inconsistent or nonexistent service will lose you riders.

[Busjack]

Apparently not just CTA. ABC7 story that Chicago Public Schools bus driver shortage continues, and some parents were told no bus service this semester. Blame put on availability of rideshare jobs, and some students will have to ride CTA.

[strictures]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:15 PM, andrethebusman99 said:

I remember when all you did was walk over to the bus stop, and at most in 10-12 minutes something would almost certainly show up. The less service, the less customers. When transferring, if I was only going to ride the next route a couple of blocks, I would wait. Now, if I don't see anything coming, I just walk. Anybody who is middle aged or older certainly sees how transit has deteriorated, the twentysomethings and thirtysomethings don't know any better, and think half hourly service is excellent. We old folks know better.

Every day there are 45 minute or longer waits for the 22 Clark now.  None of the other routes out of North Park have this problem.  CTA management appear to be deliberately shorting Clark of drivers, while Broadway continues to have no longer than 15 minute waits.