Pace Northwest Strike

[trainman8119]

Three cheers for the drivers and mechanics at the Northwest Division Garage for having the guts to walk in the face of not having a contract for over a year !!! I only wish our union with Metra had the same kind of spine to stand up to unfair working conditions. It sounds like there are some serious flaws in how some of these guys are paid, especially on the special event runs (when Pace charges what I feel is an over priced fare).

This should also spell the rumor that it is illegal to strike (see post in other forum). Although I feel for those who may be standing out on a cold blustery morning, it sounds like there was some notice on this, and management should have known this was coming.

It also sounds like this is totally unrelated to the proposed work action CTA drivers and operators are planning to protest the Springfield debacle. Good for them to get this out now to show that this is not about lack of state funding, which I am sure Pace Management will claim it is.

[Busjack]

Interesting that all the Tribune could do is rehash the doomsday funding scenario, when other sources indicate that it has little to do with it except for maybe Pace said it couldn't fund the contract.

I did see that the union is the Teamsters, not the ATU. Don't mess with the Teamsters.

I was expecting a CTA strike, but not a Pace one. However, this may get the CTA unions to hit the bricks. I tend to think like trainman that the confrontation was coming, and just was surprised where it started. I still predict--CTA riders, be ready for Local 308 to shut down the L.

Trainman also spurred me to look at the law, which is contained in the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act, 5 ILCS 315. While assuming that the ability to strike means that it is legal is incorrect, the news media seems to be off base that bus drivers are barred from striking. Section 17 bars strikes only by prison security employees, Peace Officers, Fire Fighters, and paramedics employed by fire departments and fire protection districts. Bus operations might (I say might) come with Section 18, which says that a public employer may petition the State Public Employee Labor Relations Board " to make an investigation and conduct a hearing" if a strike "may constitute a clear and present danger to the health and safety of the public," and then the Board may petition for an injunction. One may argue whether Pace has much to do with public health or safety. The union might have, however, violated Section 17(5), which requires 5 days notice of the intent to strike, but while the public doesn't know of any notice, that doesn't mean that it wasn't given (although Wilmot told the Tribune it wasn't).

Of foamer interest: what does this do to lines shared by Northwest and North Shore? 40 to 50% coverage on 210, 422, and 423?

Replying to another issue raised by trainman, I don't think Pace undercharges for special events runs ($7.50 when parking at places like Sox Park is $10). I don't think Pace should have been subsidizing special events buses with taxpayer money, as indicated in the 2008 budget cut list, and should not have been running them if it could not do so at a profit. Those are discretionary runs, as the passengers clearly have the money to buy tickets for the game.

[trainman8119]

One may argue whether Pace has much to do with public health or safety. The union might have, however, violated Section 17(5), which requires 5 days notice of the intent to strike, but while the public doesn't know of any notice, that doesn't mean that it wasn't given (although Wilmot told the Tribune it wasn't).

Of foamer interest: what does this do to lines shared by Northwest and North Shore? 40 to 50% coverage on 210, 422, and 423?

Replying to another issue raised by trainman, I don't think Pace undercharges for special events runs ($7.50 when parking at places like Sox Park is $10).

The union leader in an on camera interview with Fox stated that notice was given to Pace 2 weeks ago as per agreement, and that as of Monday, Pace was well aware that the drivers may walk "any day". There is no way Pace management would ever admit in public that they knew this was possible without giving any notice to their riders. Also, the union would have no real reason not to abide by the agreement about giving notice. After all they would be looking for support, and irritating the public would not be a way to get it...so I would think they would dot the "I's and cross the T's". Again, a classic game of chicken, and this time, Pace lost. They never thought the union would walk, and surprise, they did. Also in that interview it was mentioned that on the special events buses, operators are not paid for down time at these events. Sounds like they pay the runs on a per run flat rate...ie pay that is calculated for say 4 hours (a flat $80, for example) of actual drivinig time (an hour and 1/2 each way plus deadhead to and from the garage). So, even though they are required to be out for up to 8 or 9 hours depending on event, the pay sounds like it is considerably less. Now, it is possible many of these trips are picked up by those looking for extra cash, but if it is left for the extra board (which is possible), they are getting screwed big time.

As for why I feel the special event service is overpriced, take the $7.50 for one person, it is a bargain, I guess. But how often are people going solo on those buses. If you have 3 or 4 people that would be splitting that $10, or even $15 or $20 parking fee $7.50 per person is no real bargain. Even when it was $5 a trip (in my days there), the brass bragged that it was a cash cow and how they turned the farebox revenue recovery ratio upside down !!! Never knew then that they didn't pay the drivers for their time, either, so yeah, they mopped up. It was also great for a parent who put their kid on a bus for a concert too...but then again, that seemed high for a child, when student fares are substantially reduced in regular service. This service is really nothing more than charter service, without a charter designation, to circumvent the federal regulations (same with CTA 154 from Lane Tech, and even the beefed up Soldier Field service from the Metra stations, even though the CTA charges a reduced rate for their service....or at least they used to before the latest fare hikes).

As for the shared routes, they probably would run those routes from North Shore, if applicable, as normal. If there were a few drivers sitting around, maybe an extra North Shore bus out on the route. But my guess is that there wouldn't be too many extra North Shore buses available, or for that matter, drivers available, to run anything extra. They would probably be limited to the regular runs on those routes. And even though there are separate unions from the garages, don't look for mechanics or drivers from other garages to cross a line at Northwest should any one try to get any equipment out of there to try and beef up service using North Shore as a start point.

My guess is that things will be back to normal by Friday, short of anything happening on Thanksgiving.

[Busjack]

My guess is that things will be back to normal by Friday, short of anything happening on Thanksgiving.

Maybe Monday, but definitely not Friday. Pace deems Friday a norma schedulel day, even though hardly anyone (except retail merchants) are working. May as well save running empty buses (although it might lose any shoppers' business).

I note that the message on the Pace home page includes the routes shared with North Shore (and 272, shared with North) as "operated by Northwest Division," so Pace is at least calling off the riders from those routes. The weather is too bad for me to go out to see if the 11:30 leaves Northbrook Court, but the 12:30 does not.

[trainman8119]

Maybe Monday, but definitely not Friday. Pace deems Friday a norma schedulel day, even though hardly anyone (except retail merchants) are working. May as well save running empty buses (although it might lose any shoppers' business).

True, but I would think if management can get the buses out on the street they will. I figured Friday, being a "normal service" day, that would be the day they would get out. Also, they won't be losing any weekend days either. Can you imagine the union saying they would go back to work (with mediation), but the company saying, no , we don't want to run 1/2 empty buses on Friday. I suspect today's action will get the point across, and Pace will do everything they can to get buses on the street asap. I would be surprised if the full blown strike lasts longer than tomorrow.

One other thing about the Teamsters. Metra's engineers went with Teamsters 3 years ago. When push came to shove a few years ago with some uncalled for firings, many members wanted to stage a walk-out. The union said no, they would have none of it. Part of it, is that the contract they signed agrees that there would be no strikes. So even though, it is not illegal to walk (and would probably be interrupted by the federal government anyway), the unions (both engineers and conductors) are sucked up to the company. So from a Metra standpoint, unfortunately, it'll probably never happen.

[Busjack]

Metra's engineers went with Teamsters 3 years ago. When push came to shove a few years ago with some uncalled for firings, many members wanted to stage a walk-out. The union said no, they would have none of it. Part of it, is that the contract they signed agrees that there would be no strikes. So even though, it is not illegal to walk (and would probably be interrupted by the federal government anyway), the unions (both engineers and conductors) are sucked up to the company.

There are three legal issues presented, all of which must be separately analyzed:

• Whether there is a contract in force that prohibits a strike, as in the Metra scenario mentioned above. Unions usually do not sanction wildcat strikes, and the remedy under the contract is the grievance procedure and eventual arbitration.
  
• Settling an impasse after a contract has expired, which is apparently the problem at Pace Northwest. Notice provisions of the contract persist, but the no strike clause doesn't.
  
• The State Public Employee Relations Act, which, theoretically also has to be followed. The state act applies, because federal law (the National Labor Relations Act) does not. Metra provides another twist because the Railway Labor Act would apply to personnel employed by the private companies (UP and BNSF), but probably not to those employed by the Northeast Illinois Regional Commuter Railroad Corporation unless NIRCRC is regulated by the Surface Transportation Board.
  

The Tribune just announced that the strike has ended.

In the meantime, I shouldn't be giving more free legal advice to this board.

[sw4400]

Three cheers for the drivers and mechanics at the Northwest Division Garage for having the guts to walk in the face of not having a contract for over a year !!! I only wish our union with Metra had the same kind of spine to stand up to unfair working conditions. It sounds like there are some serious flaws in how some of these guys are paid, especially on the special event runs (when Pace charges what I feel is an over priced fare).

This should also spell the rumor that it is illegal to strike (see post in other forum). Although I feel for those who may be standing out on a cold blustery morning, it sounds like there was some notice on this, and management should have known this was coming.

It also sounds like this is totally unrelated to the proposed work action CTA drivers and operators are planning to protest the Springfield debacle. Good for them to get this out now to show that this is not about lack of state funding, which I am sure Pace Management will claim it is.

CTA Brass, Metra Brass, City Brass, and State Brass; If any of you ever read what is put on this website, put emphasis on this thread, because this is the CTA's and Metra's future without funding(not like you really care). But that's ok, we'll just find people who do and put them in your cozy chairs and throw you out of office.

[Guest]

I was watching Fox news this morning and they showed old stock footage of GMC and Grumman Pace buses at Rosemont. When they announced the breaking news at noon today I was expecting that another Pace garage was crosssing the lines. Hoorah for NW division.

[Buslover88]

I think the strike was justifed and I give cheers to the workers at Pace NW. Good for them that they protested to Pace, but maybe they should have done it perhaps a different way because lots of people were affected by this. Also, I read the tribune's article (thank you Busjack for providing the link) and I disagree with Pace saying 'Oh, it was an illegial strike', but how would they like it if the state gave them no money? Would they say 'The governor better give us the money!'? No, they can't say that because they can't threaten the governor.

CTA Brass, Metra Brass, City Brass, and State Brass; If any of you ever read what is put on this website, put emphasis on this thread, because this is the CTA's and Metra's future without funding(not like you really care). But that's ok, we'll just find people who do and put them in your cozy chairs and throw you out of office.

sw4400, I agree 100% here. The government don't care if the three transit agencies get money or not, they just sit back and relax. I surely hope that whom do not care are thrown out.

[Busjack]

I was watching Fox news this morning and they showed old stock footage of GMC and Grumman Pace buses at Rosemont. When they announced the breaking news at noon today I was expecting that another Pace garage was crosssing the lines. Hoorah for NW division.

That apparently is all that Fox has. However, the noon news on both WGN and Fox had reporters actually out in the rain in Des Plaines. WGN showed 6138 pulling out as the strikers were withdrawing (video at the link to the "Tribune just announced" article).

It sure was a crummy day weather wise for a strike, both for the stranded riders and picketers.

[BusExpert32]

This strike at Northwest is just nonsense. If they don't want to work for Pace, then why don't they just quit their jobs and work at some higher paid jobs. But they don't want to, they want to leave those passengers stranded outside in today's weather. These kind of people just make me angry. If I were riding pace today, I would not be happy about this.

[Buslover88]

This strike at Northwest is just nonsense. If they don't want to work for Pace, then why don't they just quit their jobs and work at some higher paid jobs. But they don't want to, they want to leave those passengers stranded outside in today's weather. These kind of people just make me angry. If I were riding pace today, I would not be happy about this.

The strike was wrong to leave people stranded, but i'll resent the fact that you claim it was unjustifed. The drivers didn't want to leave the passengers out in the cold (it's the government who wants to do that ). How can you tell somebody to "just quit their job"? That's not right.

Anyway, I have a question here: why didn't other garages assume responsbility to fill Northwest's driver's postitons to keep routes going?

[trainman8119]

Anyway, I have a question here: why didn't other garages assume responsbility to fill Northwest's driver's postitons to keep routes going?

It is a show of respect between unions. Any union member from anywhere for anything should and usually will not cross a picket line if they are a honest union member. I am sure that Pace management would have loved to have other divisions cross the line at Northwest, but had there been enough operators at other divisions to operate buses at Northwest, a good union member would respect the picket line and refuse to cross it. Should those other drivers choose to walk someday, they would want the same support from the drivers at Northwest.

This would not relegated to just this situation. For example, say a carpet company had a installers union on strike (as is the case here in Mount Prospect), and the installers were picketing the entrance to the building. Any union member, from any labor union should honor the picket line and not support the particular carpet company as a show of unity towards the particular local and or union.

[Buslover88]

It is a show of respect between unions. Any union member from anywhere for anything should and usually will not cross a picket line if they are a honest union member. I am sure that Pace management would have loved to have other divisions cross the line at Northwest, but had there been enough operators at other divisions to operate buses at Northwest, a good union member would respect the picket line and refuse to cross it. Should those other drivers choose to walk someday, they would want the same support from the drivers at Northwest.

This would not relegated to just this situation. For example, say a carpet company had a installers union on strike (as is the case here in Mount Prospect), and the installers were picketing the entrance to the building. Any union member, from any labor union should honor the picket line and not support the particular carpet company as a show of unity towards the particular local and or union.

I agree with you here, but I just wish there was a way those people weren't stranded.

[BusExpert32]

The strike was wrong to leave people stranded, but i'll resent the fact that you claim it was unjustifed. The drivers didn't want to leave the passengers out in the cold (it's the government who wants to do that ). How can you tell somebody to "just quit their job"? That's not right.

Anyway, I have a question here: why didn't other garages assume responsbility to fill Northwest's driver's postitons to keep routes going?

Well, if someone doesn't enjoy their career and their pay, then what is there to do expect for quitting. Of course, they had two options, quitting or striking and they chose the one that affected a lot of Pace's passengers in bad weather. They chose to strike which is unjustified, nothing changed for them from yesterday's strike. No point in striking if you're not going to get any results.

Does anyone know what's going on in Northwest today, it being Thanksgiving and all?

[Buslover88]

Well, if someone doesn't enjoy their career and their pay, then what is there to do expect for quitting. Of course, they had two options, quitting or striking and they chose the one that affected a lot of Pace's passengers in bad weather. They chose to strike which is unjustified, nothing changed for them from yesterday's strike. No point in striking if you're not going to get any results.

Does anyone know what's going on in Northwest today, it being Thanksgiving and all?

But what if you have very little or no money? Then what? You'll them to quit then too? Please! They were just striking because they had no contract and I think that's justifed. They did get results: Pace agreed to sit down and talk with them. You show read/watch the news more often.

As a holiday, I would think some drivers are off and others are working. You seriously didn't know that? Go to Jefferson Park and make sure #270 is running .

[Busjack]

I think BusExpert should do some studying of labor relations history (especially during the 1930s) and Labor Law, and then come back.

[BusExpert32]

I think BusExpert should do some studying of labor relations history (especially during the 1930s) and Labor Law, and then come back.

You're right, I am a little unclear about the situation at Northwest. But I'm sure that you're an expert in Labor Law and striking, Busjack. :D

[Busjack]

You're right, I am a little unclear about the situation at Northwest. But I'm sure that you're an expert in Labor Law and striking, Busjack.

I just edited legal encyclopedias on Labor Law on the national level and in Ohio.

[BusExpert32]

I just edited legal encyclopedias on Labor Law on the national level and in Ohio.

So you are indeed the expert in that department.

[Buslover88]

Busjack and BusExpert32: Seems like you two dislike each other here.

Anyway, I am still sticking with my opinion that the strike was justifed, but not justifed with the way those poor passengers that were stuck in the bad weather on Wednesday.

[BusExpert32]

Busjack and BusExpert32: Seems like you two dislike each other here.

Anyway, I am still sticking with my opinion that the strike was justifed, but not justifed with the way those poor passengers that were stuck in the bad weather on Wednesday.

I do agree with your opinion now (good for the bus drivers to strike, but not good for the passengers), but you could've kept your first thought to yourself.

[Buslover88]

I do agree with your opinion now (good for the bus drivers to strike, but not good for the passengers), but you could've kept your first thought to yourself.

BusExpert32: Glad to hear you agree with me. About that "thought" thing, you did to me with CTA5750, so now i'm doing it to you.

Does anybody think that other Pace garages are going to strike? Or any CTA drivers for that matter?

[BusExpert32]

BusExpert32: Glad to hear you agree with me. About that "thought" thing, you did to me with CTA5750, so now i'm doing it to you.

Does anybody think that other Pace garages are going to strike? Or any CTA drivers for that matter?

It's ok. Your thought was not insulting or offending to any of us. Now that you mentioned it, I have tried to settle down the arguement between you and CTA5750 once, but that was a long time ago and I stopped. Haven't done it since.

[Busjack]

Does anybody think that other Pace garages are going to strike? Or any CTA drivers for that matter?

As trainman pointed out, the Pace NW one was precipitated by the fact that there wasn't a contract in force for over a year. Apparently there wasn't a binding clause in the previous contract with regard to arbitration of a new contract, so the union could walk after giving proper notice. Also, while the issues that were supposedly hanging up the effort to come to a new contract were not discussed in the press, trainman had some ideas what they were. However, except for the fact that the Pace NW employees are public employees subject to the state law, the situation wasn't much different than GM and Chrysler employees going on strike for a couple of hours until they got a contract proposal. Ford and the UAW then settled without a strike. The Pace NW workers came back with only a schedule of mediation, not a contract.

As trainman also points out, each Pace garage has its own union, and some are represented by the Amalgamated Transit Union, while others believed that the ATU wasn't getting the job done and went with the Teamsters. One doesn't know if there are similar issues at the other garages (for instance, most of the special events buses go out of NW, although there are a few out of other divisions from Yorktown or to Sox games).

CTA unions have always agreed (at least up to now) on binding arbitration, so there wouldn't be a strike based on not having a contract. However, you had the president of the rapid transit local (308 of the ATU) saying that there would be a "job action" to put pressure on the legislature if it didn't do something to avert Doomsday in the next week or so. Again, as trainman noted, a "job action" does not necessarily mean a strike but could be the "blue flu" (so named because police officers (blue) call in sick without really being sick, extended by analogy to transit workers). As mentioned in previous discussions, unlike GM, which probably didn't want a strike, except perhaps to work off excess inventory, the RTA gave the union a platform to make its threat.

As I might have mentioned before, there may be a connection between the lack of funds and the inability to reach a contract. There might also be a connection between not getting bailout legislation before Dec. 31, the supposed deadline of the arbitration award, and the CTA unions not having a contract, giving them the authority to walk on proper notice. Or as indicated with regard to Local 308, they might just want to push a confrontation. The side of me that likes confrontation and unintended consequences would call for a strike (also mentioning that that would spread the pain more evenly than the doomsday scenarios), but predicting whether one will happen is certainly beyond my capabilities, with all the other variables here, such as the Governor having secret stashes of bailout funds, but the riders are clearly pawns in the combined political and labor game.