Novas

[pace2322]

There doing alot of work the the 90 orions and the Ikarus.There took about 20 of them and went to get rebuilt motors in them.Thats what i been told from my friend at pace who is the head od the buses i think he knows whats going on.And we have two 2000s now 2092 and 2089 at south there are going to get used soon.Pace can get parts fot the 2000s or Ikarus alot better then there can get Nova parts so that why there want to sell the novas asap.

[Busjack]

And we have two 2000s now 2092 and 2089 at south there are going to get used soon.

Going off topic, but 2092 was one of the last of that type running in the NW Division, so it must have been in better shape, but still that was about 1-1/2 years ago and the exterior was rusty.

Given this, the 2100s still running in the North Shore Division (the last I saw), and the number of 35 foot 2000s still being used by contractors, Pace must be using about 20 or 30 buses that according to Appendix B of the Budget are not in the active fleet (whatever that means). Anyway, they aren't dead yet (despite postings to the contrary).

[trainman8119]

Pace can get parts fot the 2000s or Ikarus alot better then there can get Nova parts so that why there want to sell the novas asap.

I find this statement interesting seeing as how Pace had trouble getting parts for the Ikaraus buses when they were new...and now that they are on their last breaths, those parts are easier to get then Novas? I find that hard to believe. Plus, I think Busjack can back me up on this, agencies, especially in these hard financial times, run these buses until the wheels fall off. I question Pace selling off the Novas with 3 or so years left in their lives, unless someone is giving them some outrageous sum of money and is hot to trot for them. There is always some sort of express or long range route that they can use them on (ie. 747 at West or 355 at South, UPS or whatever).

[Busjack]

[A]gencies, especially in these hard financial times, run these buses until the wheels fall off. I question Pace selling off the Novas with 3 or so years left in their lives, unless someone is giving them some outrageous sum of money and is hot to trot for them.

It is more a matter of federal regulations. If Pace sold them before the 12 year useful life ran out, it would have to return the federal grants. This goes back to about 1979 when NYC wanted to get rid of the Grumman Flxible 870s (had cracking problems at the time, and RTA (I believe this was before Pace was organized) had to take its off the road pending inspection). The feds said to return the grant money, but the agreement ended up being that MTA bought RTSs, but out of its own money, not new federal grants. [i finally found the reference in the National Transportation Library. In any event, any sale would first need FTA approval, according to Section 5334(g) of the Urban Mass Transportation Act.]

As RIPTA42 documented, the Pace 8700s had life left when they were sold, but they were over 12 years old. CTA has always run its buses into the ground, and now that it appears that Pace, having little capital money, is also doing so.

Of course, I remember when buses ran 20 years, and the 12 years was a minimum rather than a maximum.

As I mentioned, 2390s are running on 626, and there are proposals to expand 747.

[pace2322]

LoL,Run them on the Ups runs there get mess up in one trip did u see some of our nabis 6100s and 6200s inside what a mess.some all the back seat are mess up big time.It just as bad as running the mci on the ups runs.

[MetroShadow]

I don't think selling those 2390's would solve the problem. They still have a few years left, and like mentioned, they're of good use regardless. 747 needs them on the west (there is one or two out of west), 426 and 626 runs north shore, and 835 runs out of southwest. Sure, a couple of buses may need brake jobs or some kind of underwork (needs parts), but those buses are as useful as the 2000's at this point (and 2000's are still being operated to this date).

Aren't the 6900's just relegated to South anyway? Let alone, I saw a couple of UPS runs being used by the 6000's Orions and 6100 NABI's?

[jesi2282]

What routes do the Novas operate on besides 835?

[Busjack]

213*, 215*, 422*, 423*, 626, 747*, 767

* Mixed with others

[jesi2282]

Is that everyday?

[Busjack]

No

[jesi2282]

Does 835 only run Novas?

[MetroShadow]

Yeah that's a good question to truely ask because its not so much a long distance route like it was. You would think that it would be 45 minutes to get to Oak Lawn, and perhaps 90 minutes to Orland Park, they would at least switch to Orion VI's (since its out of southwest)...but then again it is a long route so Nova's may actually be still needed.

*for some odd reason I yearn for buses with suburban-style seating*

[qwantae]

835 is run when SWS trains don't. The SWS expansion is basically completed and I believe is slated to be running later this year or at the latest, early next year. So, needless to say, that would spell the end of the 835.

Metra has been hiring trainmen off the charts in anticipation of the SWS and NCS expansions. NCS will happen sometime in December (or Metra loses a big chunk of grant money).

Personally, I love those Nova Classics and I've only lived here in Chicago for 2 years, but Ive seen some of those buses, mostly on 835 and 767. But lucky I got to ride one to my school in Bridgeview on Route 379 or 390. I've rode another one thats 2389 on route 385 two hour ride from Crestwood to Ford City that was fun. One time I've rode one on 747 to Wheaton. Those are my all time favorite buses but I cannot believe that Pace only has 22 of them, maybe is because that Classics been ceased in 1997 that they just couldnt get any more. I've grew up in Grand Rapids, MI when they used to run 1990 MCI Classics til 2003. I hope that these Nova Classics will have new Blue Logo and run longer with extension life.

Are The nova classics will still run from SW Garage after eliminating route 835?

[qwantae]

I remember them at south I have some photos of them at Oakbrook mall. After they cancel the 835 they should bring them back to south for the 355 they need them.

At the time that South Division had Nova Classics for the routes 877/888/355, did they also run on other routes like 352, 349, 364 357,etc???

[qwantae]

Undoubtedly, there will be some cuts as a result of the South Suburban Initiative, but it is a leap to go from that to Pace is selling off buses, especially when most of them (2390 to 2400) are still being used in the North Shore and West divisions, and were taken off Metra routes (960 and 961) about 7 years ago, and there are still a number of 1990 Orions and 1992 Ikarus that need to be replaced.

Im really not going to be happy if Pace decides to sell those Novas, they are good looking buses, I grew up with the GM/ MCI Classic buses from Michigan(Detroit and Grand Rapids) but they are all gone, so what other city can I go for the Classics, I might as well move to Pittsburgh or Canada to be around the Nova Classics. PLEASE Pace, Keep the Novas for sake!!

[qwantae]

It is more a matter of federal regulations. If Pace sold them before the 12 year useful life ran out, it would have to return the federal grants. This goes back to about 1979 when NYC wanted to get rid of the Grumman Flxible 870s (had cracking problems at the time, and RTA (I believe this was before Pace was organized) had to take its off the road pending inspection). The feds said to return the grant money, but the agreement ended up being that MTA bought RTSs, but out of its own money, not new federal grants. [i finally found the reference in the National Transportation Library. In any event, any sale would first need FTA approval, according to Section 5334(g) of the Urban Mass Transportation Act.]

As RIPTA42 documented, the Pace 8700s had life left when they were sold, but they were over 12 years old. CTA has always run its buses into the ground, and now that it appears that Pace, having little capital money, is also doing so.

Of course, I remember when buses ran 20 years, and the 12 years was a minimum rather than a maximum.

As I mentioned, 2390s are running on 626, and there are proposals to expand 747.

I believe that the Nova Classic can last over 20 years of life, like most cities in Canada still has the GM/ MCI Classics that are over 20 years old like Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Windsor and more.

[qwantae]

What routes do the Novas operate on besides 835?

Fortunately, From SW Division I saw the Novas run everyday on 381, sometimes on all other routes from the garage, Same with West Division on 322, 301, 305, 315, 307, 308, 318, 747, 313, 303 every night.

[qwantae]

Yeah that's a good question to truely ask because its not so much a long distance route like it was. You would think that it would be 45 minutes to get to Oak Lawn, and perhaps 90 minutes to Orland Park, they would at least switch to Orion VI's (since its out of southwest)...but then again it is a long route so Nova's may actually be still needed.

*for some odd reason I yearn for buses with suburban-style seating*

I remember one day 4 years ago, I saw the Last trip run on 835 around 9:45pm in Oak Lawn on South Cicero in NABI 6200, I believe its from Heritage Garage in Joliet.

[qwantae]

I'm not suprised they are getting rid of the 835...

...question is now, what routes are going to place them on?

You already use them on the 626, but now, it seems that if you keep them southwest, you'd have to put it on the 834 or 835, as it seems...

...or take all of them to North Shore and let them have their way with it.

I wouldnt think that Southwest wants to get rid of Nova, I rode few of Novas and the drivers said that they like them better. If they move those Novas to different divisions them it will be 100% orion vi.

[Kevin]

qwantae: Do you realize you have made seven consecutive posts to a nearly two year old topic?

[Guest]

qwantae: Do you realize you have made seven consecutive posts to a nearly two year old topic?

What I would love to see is Pace give us over at Academy Coach which operates some Pace contracts out of Mt Prospect recieve the Novas if no other garage would need them. Retire our 22/2300 Orions and replace them with Novas. Im wondering what Academy will get once the 22/2300 Orions are retired, their time should be coming. Ive heard rumors that the Orions time at Academy may be up soon. We will have the 6600 NABIs for a good while.

[Busjack]

What I would love to see is Pace give us over at Academy Coach which operates some Pace contracts out of Mt Prospect recieve the Novas if no other garage would need them. Retire our 22/2300 Orions and replace them with Novas. Im wondering what Academy will get once the 22/2300 Orions are retired, their time should be coming. Ive heard rumors that the Orions time at Academy may be up soon. We will have the 6600 NABIs for a good while. Ive been with Academy for about a month and and a half, I still have yet to operate the NABIs.

The question is if Pace will have any capital funds to retire the Orions? Also, there are no outstanding options for full sized buses (but there are another 120 for 2600s).

I thought that at least the rest of the Ikarus fleet would be retired with 2600-2702, but with 26-30 of the 2600s going to Naperville (not anticipated by me), that didn't happen. In fact, there are still a few 2000s on light DuPage feeders.

If we get over the hurdle of actually purchasing buses, those routes out of Rosemont (operated by whatever contractor) have always been at the bottom of the food chain, as previously noted by trainman. Similar to when Colonial got the lower 2292s (originally South, then Southwest to cover 385 when South got the 2401s and 385 became accessible, and then to Colonial or whomever when Southwest got 6072-6115), The Amazing Randy predicts that Colonial will get some South NABIs and South would get whatever new bus is purchased then (probably along with Northwest and maybe a few for North and North Shore). Karnak the Magnificent was correct at least with predicting that some Highland Park 6600s would go to North Shore, but not right that North Shore would have fewer 40 footers.

Meantime, it appears that the various Laidlaw divisions in DuPage County now have a number of 2272s and 2392s, and the mentalist in me predicts that if capital money is found (such as if taxes go up in DuPage county per the proposed RTA bill) those would be replaced with 2700s, per the options.

Also, if the 2300s are due for replacement, they would be due in Northwest before Colonial (in fact, I believe that Colonial got 2372-2377 when Northwest unexpectedly got 6156-6161).

Mentioning 2272, and trainman's aversion to moving buses around, that seems to be one of the most moved, and illustrates the pecking order. I presume it was originally a Wilmette bus, but have seen it in Waukegan, Elgin, Northwest, and most recently in Clarendon Hills. Also, as previously mentioned, 2286 went from route 326 to Lisle.

[pace2322]

I dont see any 2300 getting replace soon there are getting there mid lifes at truck and bus. I know there 4 or 5 at Academy the had there mid lifes u guys have 2316 and that is one of them. U guys have it made there if u dont want them come get our 2400s. Then u know what junk is. Anytime i am in a 2400 its dies there just need to junk them so bad and that it.

[jesi2282]

Does West Division run their Novas on #767 anymore?, all I see on that route are NABI's now. I'm asking this question because today I saw 2399 on the #301, a weird place for a Nova to be.

[qwantae]

Does West Division run their Novas on #767 anymore?, all I see on that route are NABI's now. I'm asking this question because today I saw 2399 on the #301, a weird place for a Nova to be.

I know what you mean, I barely can find them any route from west. Yes, I only can see NABI. I couldnt believe that they didnt even run lately on #747 and 757. Five years ago I used to see alot of Novas on I90 westbound on the #767. But Couple weeks ago I've rode 2400 on the #304 and 322. Is that the only two novas West Division have- 2399/2400? Im crazy about those Canadian Buses. They are my Pace favorites.

Plus- This passed Monday- I've rode 2389 from SW on #383. I am still camping out for them.