Cermak-Chinatown Accident

[Zol87]

What is your opinion of how this ordeal was handled?

Chicago Sun Times Story

Chicago Tribune Story

I didn't see official info from the CTA until this morning. They SHOULD have posted preliminary info about this problem and how it affects service as soon as possible. I got so many different answers on whether the red line was still running or not last night. It's a shame that 2 people were killed. :(

[nflyer22]

What is your opinion of how this ordeal was handled?

Chicago Sun Times Story

Chicago Tribune Story

I didn't see official info from the CTA until this morning. They SHOULD have posted preliminary info about this problem and how it affects service as soon as possible. I got so many different answers on whether the red line was still running or not last night. It's a shame that 2 people were killed.

Yeah, so shameful that the truck had to turn, either left or right from the highway ramp, but did neither and just ran right into the station and bus stop area. Haven't ridden the train or even went by the station yet, even though I live only 2 blocks from the station, so I still don't have a 1st hand look at it.

I'm always unhappy about how police, fire department, etc. manage and handle such cases like these, seeing if people are hurt or in danger, or if something needs to be done, at most cases, they just stand there and stare at the accident for an hour before something is done, and by that time, it is mostly too late.

I have a question though, and I don't think any source had released it yet, but why didn't the truck turn either way or brake? (Based on Chicago Sun Times)

Investigators have found no skid marks on the road, so it’s possible the driver was not braking, sources said.

[Guest]

Yeah, so shameful that the truck had to turn, either left or right from the highway ramp, but did neither and just ran right into the station and bus stop area. Haven't ridden the train or even went by the station yet, even though I live only 2 blocks from the station, so I still don't have a 1st hand look at it.

I'm always unhappy about how police, fire department, etc. manage and handle such cases like these, seeing if people are hurt or in danger, or if something needs to be done, at most cases, they just stand there and stare at the accident for an hour before something is done, and by that time, it is mostly too late.

I have a question though, and I don't think any source had released it yet, but why didn't the truck turn either way or brake? (Based on Chicago Sun Times)

Are you kidding me??? Too late for what?? nflyer, I cant believe the comment you just made here, I am very offended at your remark towards how fire and police handle emergencies. We dont just "stand around" like you say. How dare you make such a comment! The accident was handled properly and as quickly as possible, all the critical victims were taken care of or was I dreaming and didnt see those injured being taken away by paramedics?. You dont know our job, so dont make any remarks on how police and fire just "stand around". Is this how you show your appreciation to those of us who are willing to risk our lives to save yours? For me, I have to risk my life for someone who dosent appreciate what we do. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking of us that way! If you were in trouble, the police or fire dept. would be the first persons you would want to help you, Oh, but then again youre always unhappy at how we just "stand around" and dont do anything. I only hope that you do not really believe what you said here. We are very dedicated to our job and very good at what we do and Ill be damned if Ill let someone like you talk less about the Chicago Fire Dept. or Chicago Police.

[nflyer22]

Yeah, so shameful that the truck had to turn, either left or right from the highway ramp, but did neither and just ran right into the station and bus stop area. Haven't ridden the train or even went by the station yet, even though I live only 2 blocks from the station, so I still don't have a 1st hand look at it.

I'm always unhappy about how police, fire department, etc. manage and handle such cases like these, seeing if people are hurt or in danger, or if something needs to be done, at most cases, they just stand there and stare at the accident for an hour before something is done, and by that time, it is mostly too late.

I have a question though, and I don't think any source had released it yet, but why didn't the truck turn either way or brake? (Based on Chicago Sun Times)

Too late for what??? Are you kidding me??? nflyer I cant believe the comment you made here, I am very offended at your remark towards how police and fire handle emergencies. We dont just "stand around" like you say. How dare you make such a comment! The accident was handled properly and all the critical victims were taken care of or was I dreaming and didnt see those injured being taken away by paramedics?. You dont know our job, so dont make any remarks on how police and fire just "stand around". Is this how you show your appreciation to those of us who are willing to risk our lives to save yours? For me, I have to risk my life for someone who dosent appreciate what we do. You should be ashamed of yourself! If you were in trouble, the police or fire dept. would be the first persons you would want to help you, Oh, but then again your always unhappy at how we just "stand around" and dont do anything.

Alright, I'm sorry about making those generalized comments about emergency response handling and responses, seeing how I didn't get all the info about what had happened, how quick it was handled, all the details, etc., and how I just jumped to conclusions without hearing all sides of the story. It takes more than just helping the injured and needy, it takes good knowledge and courage. If I was in danger, I wouldn't want the emergency response people just "standing around", as I have said before. So again, my deepest apologies about my derogatory comments to those who work hard and risk their own lives to save other people's lives every day. -_-

[jajuan]

I'll have to agree with CTA5750. Even though you apologized for your comments nflyer22, your comments were off base. From the news reports as I understood them, it was already too late for the two women who died. Their injuries were too extensive, and sadly they succumbed to them. In some those instances of emergency response workers "just standing around" as you put it, there may be situations similar to this accident where a vehicle has crashed into a larger structure in what may be a precarious position, and they have to figure out how to remove said vehicle, after proper evacuation of the scene, without bringing the structure down on everyone and injuring or killing more people. It could also be another situation where they have to tread carefully or risk making the situation more dangerous such as a fuel leak that may lead to explosion if not handle carefully. Other instances where fire dept. and police officials may just be "standing around" are those workers actually conducting their investigation of the scene, initial or otherwise, to find out what actually happened. Not to mention because some of these accident sites may be potentially dangerous, they have to assess the situation as best they can to properly mount the appropriate rescue. They can't just go rushing into the scene without the proper information. That makes the situation even more dangerous for everyone involved. You may want to avoid making baseless assumptions about a situation if you were not on scene to see what happened. This situation is tragic enough without those kinds of comments. From all witness accounts of people who were actually there, the police and fire dept. responded appropriately.

As for the CTA not giving appropriate information, in this situation they responded with what information they had almost immediately. Within five to ten minutes of hearing of the accident on the news, I saw their customer alert on the website informing riders who would be able to access this information that power was cut from Grand to 35th so rescue workers could safely complete evacuation of the Cermak-Chinatown station and begin their initial investigation. From ABC7 News's 6pm update of the accident, CTA responded quickly in getting power shut down so police and the fire dept. could do their jobs. Trains in the affected area were pulled into the next closest station and emptied before the power was shut down. They left no one stranded in the subway. They also moved as quickly as possible to get shuttle buses in place. CTA gave regular updates through online customer alerts of the affected area throughout the evening as they got more information that could be passed on to riders. Within that first half hour after the accident, the CTA got the power restored between Grand and Roosevelt stations. The last update I saw last night before going to bed mentioned that power was restored but Cermak-Chinatown would remain closed for the forseeable future while repairs are done. By this morning the station was reopened, but of course the main entrance is still closed. Riders will have to use the auxiliary entrance across the street until the main entrance is completely repaired.

[Buslover88]

Are you kidding me??? Too late for what?? nflyer, I cant believe the comment you just made here, I am very offended at your remark towards how fire and police handle emergencies. We dont just "stand around" like you say. How dare you make such a comment! The accident was handled properly and as quickly as possible, all the critical victims were taken care of or was I dreaming and didnt see those injured being taken away by paramedics?. You dont know our job, so dont make any remarks on how police and fire just "stand around". Is this how you show your appreciation to those of us who are willing to risk our lives to save yours? For me, I have to risk my life for someone who dosent appreciate what we do. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking of us that way! If you were in trouble, the police or fire dept. would be the first persons you would want to help you, Oh, but then again youre always unhappy at how we just "stand around" and dont do anything. I only hope that you do not really believe what you said here. We are very dedicated to our job and very good at what we do and Ill be damned if Ill let someone like you talk less about the Chicago Fire Dept. or Chicago Police.

I understand that you're offended, but hey, chill out, no need to go crazy and everything. But you are right, the CFD's very good at what they do.

I'll have to agree with CTA5750. Even though you apologized for your comments nflyer22, your comments were off base. From the news reports as I understood them, it was already too late for the two women who died. Their injuries were too extensive, and sadly they succumbed to them. In some those instances of emergency response workers "just standing around" as you put it, there may be situations similar to this accident where a vehicle has crashed into a larger structure in what may be a precarious position, and they have to figure out how to remove said vehicle, after proper evacuation of the scene, without bringing the structure down on everyone and injuring or killing more people. It could also be another situation where they have to tread carefully or risk making the situation more dangerous such as a fuel leak that may lead to explosion if not handle carefully. Other instances where fire dept. and police officials may just be "standing around" are those workers actually conducting their investigation of the scene, initial or otherwise, to find out what actually happened. Not to mention because some of these accident sites may be potentially dangerous, they have to assess the situation as best they can to properly mount the appropriate rescue. They can't just go rushing into the scene without the proper information. That makes the situation even more dangerous for everyone involved. You may want to avoid making baseless assumptions about a situation if you were not on scene to see what happened. This situation is tragic enough without those kinds of comments. From all witness accounts of people who were actually there, the police and fire dept. responded appropriately.

Agreed.

I am shocked at the accident. It was a horrible accident and should have never happened. My thoughts and prayers are with those were injuried and killed in this accident. I'll have to say everybody was in the wrong place and at the wrong time.

[Busjack]

I have a question though, and I don't think any source had released it yet, but why didn't the truck turn either way or brake? (Based on Chicago Sun Times)

After hospitalization they took the driver into custody. The supposition in some news reports is that he blacked out on the expressway, but continued onward, even though it became a ramp and terminated at Cermak.

This raises the question that the Chinatown feeder was supposedly going to be continued to connect with Wacker Drive, but 40 years have gone by and nothing has happened. But then I suppose that he would have crashed into something else.

It seems here that the CTA acted properly, and this (unlike the two subway incidents) is certainly nothing that could be attributed to it.

[nflyer22]

After hospitalization they took the driver into custody. The supposition in some news reports is that he blacked out on the expressway, but continued onward, even though it became a ramp and terminated at Cermak.

This raises the question that the Chinatown feeder was supposedly going to be continued to connect with Wacker Drive, but 40 years have gone by and nothing has happened. But then I suppose that he would have crashed into something else.

It seems here that the CTA acted properly, and this (unlike the two subway incidents) is certainly nothing that could be attributed to it.

Again, very sorry for making generalized assumptions and comments about the Police, Fire Department, Emergency Response, etc. about how they react to emergencies.

I may be pretty stupid to understand this (like the accident details and assumptions), but what was the plan (40 years ago) about the Chinatown feeder to Wacker Drive? (Like what was the original plan and details of it?)

[Busjack]

Again, very sorry for making generalized assumptions and comments about the Police, Fire Department, Emergency Response, etc. about how they react to emergencies.

I may be pretty stupid to understand this (like the accident details and assumptions), but what was the plan (40 years ago) about the Chinatown feeder to Wacker Drive? (Like what was the original plan and details of it?)

Don't have any details except that there doesn't seem to have been any point to dead ending at Cermak, and if the road continued due north, it would eventually lead into the south end of Wacker Drive.

Some other forum has a bit of discussion, and a reference to a "Franklin Street Expressway" (apparently not to be confused with the Philadelphia one). The "Franklin Street Expressway" also gets mentioned at the Cook County Expressways site with regard to the connection with the Stevenson.

[geneking7320]

I wonder if the city or the CTA will construct barriers around the station entrance. Think of the barriers around the federal buildings at Jackson and Dearborn as an example.

[nflyer22]

I wonder if the city or the CTA will construct barriers around the station entrance. Think of the barriers around the federal buildings at Jackson and Dearborn as an example.

You know, that's a great idea but with all the financial issues surrounding the CTA, such as a proposed fare increase as early as next year in 2009 for the sudden and continuing jump in gas prices, as well as other common items we use every day, who knows what will happen.

[qwantae]

No wonder,

I was at the Midway and Its been pretty hell too on Cicero between Midway and Ford City with all the traffic signals were out, I was on #383 Southbound in a high traffic, it took an hour just to get to ford City from Midway during that afternoon rush. Then when I got back to midway, I keep on hearing the annoncement about the Red Line but their speakers barely work, so I cannot hear anything what it was saying. At least I was safe, Its been a terrible Friday ever.

And by the way, does it supposed to be "no trucks" to enter that ramp to Cermak? It seems to me that the trucks arent going to fit the underpass the Red Line or able to turn that hard curb before coming to Cermak.

[BusHunter]

I wonder if the city or the CTA will construct barriers around the station entrance. Think of the barriers around the federal buildings at Jackson and Dearborn as an example.

They need to. The question is what will stop an 18-wheeler with a load barreling down a ramp at 55 miles an hour? Probably could use two barriers one at the CTA entrance and one across the street at the ramp. Maybe a Y could be configured into the exit with a concrete barrier in between the right and left turns this way if another truck hit it the force of the impact should divert it away from the station entrance. I'm kind of surprised someone didn't think this could happen. Why design a station entrance across from a potential danger zone? It was only a matter of time before this happened. Maybe now they can fix this problem.

[Guest]

They need to. The question is what will stop an 18-wheeler with a load barreling down a ramp at 55 miles an hour? Probably could use two barriers one at the CTA entrance and one across the street at the ramp. Maybe a Y could be configured into the exit with a concrete barrier in between the right and left turns this way if another truck hit it the force of the impact should divert it away from the station entrance. I'm kind of surprised someone didn't think this could happen. Why design a station entrance across from a potential danger zone? It was only a matter of time before this happened. Maybe now they can fix this problem.

As with all tragic accidents, it takes a life first before something is to be done. They should relocate the ramp and reopen the Cermak station right where it is.

[nflyer22]

As with all tragic accidents, it takes a life first before something is to be done. They should relocate the ramp and reopen the Cermak station right where it is.

Yep, not bad of an idea, but sadly enough, many different new questions pop up with that:

• Where would the city get the money to start a whole new project for that?
  
• Where would the city buy the time to do so?
  
• Where's the new exit ramp going to be?
  
• How is it going to be where it's going to be with the given room on Cermak/Chinatown?
  

[Chicago13]

Yep, not bad of an idea, but sadly enough, many different new questions pop up with that:

• Where would the city get the money to start a whole new project for that?
  
• Where would the city buy the time to do so?
  
• Where's the new exit ramp going to be?
  
• How is it going to be where it's going to be with the given room on Cermak/Chinatown?
  

To answer the first two questions:

The city wouldn't be getting the money from anywhere and wouldn't need to make time for the project.

The repsonsibility for any work on the ramp belongs to the State of Illinois and IDOT.

To answer the last two: There's simply no place to relocate it there.

The ramp configuration had nothing to do with the accident. It was caused by one of two things: Either there was a mechanical problem with the brakes or it was driver error. If the ramp was configured to avoid the Red Line station, that truck would've plowed into something else with possibly the same results.

[Guest]

To answer the first two questions:

The city wouldn't be getting the money from anywhere and wouldn't need to make time for the project.

The repsonsibility for any work on the ramp belongs to the State of Illinois and IDOT.

To answer the last two: There's simply no place to relocate it there.

The ramp configuration had nothing to do with the accident. It was caused by one of two things: Either there was a mechanical problem with the brakes or it was driver error. If the ramp was configured to avoid the Red Line station, that truck would've plowed into something else with possibly the same results.

Yes youre correct, a reconfiguration wouldnt prevent another accident but a solution so that another accident like this never happens again. Regardless of what the cause was, the hazard is still there.

[Chicago13]

Yes youre correct, a reconfiguration wouldnt prevent another accident but a solution so that another accident like this never happens again. Regardless of what the cause was, the hazard is still there.

The chances that another accident like this ever happening again are extremely slim. Remember this ramp configuration has existed for 40+ years, and this is the first time to my knowledge that a vehicle has ever plowed into the station. Besides, as I stated earlier, there's just no way to reconfigure the layout there anyway. There's no room, unless you're suggesting the state spend millions of dollars it doesn't have to acquire property and reconstruct the whole thing for something that chances are may never even happen agian. The cheaper alternative would be for the city & CTA to erect some kind of steel & concrete barricade set up in front of the station.

[Zol87]

I wonder if this accident could lead the CTA to rebuilding this station to include an elevator.

Cermak Chinatown wasn't included in the Dan Ryan Rehab Project. And it is a major tourist stop.

[nflyer22]

I wonder if this accident could lead the CTA to rebuilding this station to include an elevator.

Cermak Chinatown wasn't included in the Dan Ryan Rehab Project. And it is a major tourist stop.

<===

That would be something others, and myself would be looking forward to! :lol:

[qwantae]

I wonder if this accident could lead the CTA to rebuilding this station to include an elevator.

Cermak Chinatown wasn't included in the Dan Ryan Rehab Project. And it is a major tourist stop.

I was going to suggest that about an elevator to add on the station is a great idea for Chinatown Tourist.

[emathias]

I wonder if this accident could lead the CTA to rebuilding this station to include an elevator.

Cermak Chinatown wasn't included in the Dan Ryan Rehab Project. And it is a major tourist stop.

And/or an additional entrance at Archer. I emailed the CTA and asked that it be considered as part of any station rebuilding - I hope they actually do consider it, as an Archer entrance would likely be pretty heavily used and possibly increase ridership for people who live nearby between Archer and 18th.

[ChicagoChinatown]

And/or an additional entrance at Archer. I emailed the CTA and asked that it be considered as part of any station rebuilding - I hope they actually do consider it, as an Archer entrance would likely be pretty heavily used and possibly increase ridership for people who live nearby between Archer and 18th.

Elevator will be difficult to be install because of the size of the main entrance that lead to the main platform, the original design is for an escalator and staircase, now if one put the elevator in front of the main train station (where the bus shelter use to be), it might work, but the opening on-top of the platform has to be a bit narrow for the elevator to fit, since there is not much room on the platform between the station and the sidewalk, and the elevator has to be small enough that one can pass between to and from the south entrance/exit.

And for the entrance to Archer, this will allow a potential for two stops the Orange Line with the Red Line at the Cermak Station, but I doubt the CTA will spend the money on doing it, and it will call for the elimination of the main Cermak and South entrance, which most Chinese people down in the old section of Chinatown will oppose, because that will be also redirecting business foot traffic to Chinatown Square instead to the old portion of Chinatown, and possibility redirecting the 18th Street bus to Archer, and maybe the 21st Cermak bus, practically isolating the old section of Chinatown, which has only the 24 Wentworth bus that run only on weekdays.

Simply, I would prefer they leave the station as it was before, and simply add a barrier in front of the main station, and move the bus stop down to Cermak and Wentworth, but that will be wishful thinking.