Pace/ RTA Grumman Flxible 870s

[RTS Book]

As part of an independent study for college, I'm going through and scanning and archiving quite a substantial amount of historical bus negatives.

I just ran into some surrounding Pace/ RTA Grumman 870 #8207, which was photographed at Blitz Bus in a *very* battered state.

Just got me wondering, especially as I'm toying with an 870/Metro book, what the story was behind these. I know they were sidelined at one point during the whole A-frame fiasco, but seeing as these photos were taken in September of 1986, I'm assuming they went back in service for a while.

Appreciate the info, even if it seems to be a dumb question...

-Evan

[Busjack]

My understanding was that they were taken out of service to be inspected, then went back into service. I remember the RTA announcing that they had to scrounge up school buses. Bill V has some running until 1993. Tribune articles at the time said that various Orion Is received from 1987 to 1993 were to replace them, but apparently the 8000 series 4523s and these went out of service together (sort of like how the CTA 5300s and 4400s are ending up).

You have a picture of what appears to be the original RTA scheme (although I can't figure out what is above the rub rail), while Bill has a picture of one in its later years in the subsequent Pace scheme. That page also seems to have a better explanation of how they were phased out.

I rode a couple in the original scheme (must have been early 1980s).

[RTS Book]

(although I can't figure out what is above the rub rail)

It's a lot of rust and quite a few panels bolted on as a half-@$$ed means of repairing the damage.

[artthouwill]

As part of an independent study for college, I'm going through and scanning and archiving quite a substantial amount of historical bus negatives.

I just ran into some surrounding Pace/ RTA Grumman 870 #8207, which was photographed at Blitz Bus in a *very* battered state.

Just got me wondering, especially as I'm toying with an 870/Metro book, what the story was behind these. I know they were sidelined at one point during the whole A-frame fiasco, but seeing as these photos were taken in September of 1986, I'm assuming they went back in service for a while.

Appreciate the info, even if it seems to be a dumb question...

-Evan

You are right. I knew a Pace driver back in the late 1980s who told me why they were pulled, but they were back in service, but still had problems with the frame. They were very scarce at Pace South and Southwest, and I don't ever remeber seeing any at Pace Northwest. If I remember correctly, the series ran from 8200 - 86xx, but it's possible thatthe majority of those buses were scrapped and only some were salvaged. Outside of that big flaw, I loved those buses. Like I said before though, the CTA and GPTC versions of those buses I hate.

[Busjack]

They were very scarce at Pace South and Southwest, and I don't ever remeber seeing any at Pace Northwest. If I remember correctly, the series ran from 8200 - 86xx, but it's possible thatthe majority of those buses were scrapped and only some were salvaged.

Only up to 8405. The 8600s were the Waukegan Gilligs. (Apparently, there were no 8500s.)

Also, again this depends on the time period involved. When first received, they were quite frequent in South and NW. Route 355 was about half these and half 700 series South Suburban Mass Transit District (which outlived them and ended up being leased to the CTA). Krambles' book also has a picture of one in Park Ridge on 290 Touhy.

There is a void when I was not in town, and as Bill V. indicated, the last ended up in West. Probably West started up slower than other divisions, since it had received a big order of 4523s in 1977. South received only a few 4523s, primarily for (then) new routes, like 364.

Again, Bill V. has a 1987 assignment sheet, which seems to put most of the Grummans in West or Northwest (then Nortran). However, it seems short on the amount of equipment needed to run South. In that Nortran originally had some 4523s (such as on 212, Skokie Locals, Park Ridge locals and the like), maybe some were swapped with South, if that list is correct.

[BusHunter]

Only up to 8405. The 8600s were the Waukegan Gilligs. (Apparently, there were no 8500s.)

Also, again this depends on the time period involved. When first received, they were quite frequent in South and NW. Route 355 was about half these and half 700 series South Suburban Mass Transit District (which outlived them and ended up being leased to the CTA). Krambles' book also has a picture of one in Park Ridge on 290 Touhy.

There is a void when I was not in town, and as Bill V. indicated, the last ended up in West. Probably West started up slower than other divisions, since it had received a big order of 4523s in 1977. South received only a few 4523s, primarily for (then) new routes, like 364.

Again, Bill V. has a 1987 assignment sheet, which seems to put most of the Grummans in West or Northwest (then Nortran). However, it seems short on the amount of equipment needed to run South. In that Nortran originally had some 4523s (such as on 212, Skokie Locals, Park Ridge locals and the like), maybe some were swapped with South, if that list is correct.

I remember the 870's mostly at Pace West in the early 80's. They were fairly easy to spot. There must have been quite a few. They also had 4523's at West back then , but they weren't being used as much as the newer 870's at the time. I don't really remember any 870's at pace NW. Back then they mostly had the Blue 400's painted in the Nortran scheme. You say there's a picture of one in Krambles book. I'll have to check that out. I seem to remember a similar picture at the Park Ridge Metra station with one on the 331 route which terminated up there before there was an O'hare blue line. Fast forwarding to the early 90's, (about 1991) I remember the 870's still in service painted in the white Pace scheme at west when the Ikarus #2200's were first coming in. The grummans were wiped out at west at the completion of that order, with pace west being mostly Ikarus buses.

[Busjack]

You say there's a picture of one in Krambles book. I'll have to check that out. I seem to remember a similar picture at the Park Ridge Metra station with one on the 331 route which terminated up there before there was an O'hare blue line.

Page 112. The picture there is dated 1980 and shows the reverse scenario; 331 served by 8060 (a pumpkin bus), followed by a CTA albino (which trainman pointed out I had a brain cramp about), followed by a Grumman, with part of the sign obscured, but the rest apparently indicating "0 Park Ridge Sta via Touhy."

[geneking7320]

Hi All;

Back in the 1980s I took a few pics of the 870s operating on Nortran route 290.

The buses were in same livery as the pic in this thread and also had the large print mylar courtain signs.

If I can find the pictures I'll post them.

Gene :)

[Guest]

I remember as a kid seeing these buses on the 270 Milwaukee route.

[andrethebusman]

I remember as a kid seeing these buses on the 270 Milwaukee route.

8201-8405 series were OOS only a few months while the engine cradles were reinforced. Safeway ended up running school buses on 353 and 355 (as far north as Cottage/115 only) in the meantime. Nortran had a dozen or so CTA buses. Rest just scrounged up what they could. West Towns had least problems, as they only had one Grumman at the time - 8204 if I remember.

As far as I know, only two were retired pre-mid 80's - 8213 wrecked VERY early (1980?) at Halsted and 137th, and 8312 burned circa 1981 or 1982. Most eventually got digital signs and black/white/yellow paint. In PACE days they ran at Northwest, Southwest, South, West, River, North divisions, also at Wilmette.

[BusHunter]

Nortran had a dozen or so CTA buses.

Are you speaking of Albino's? (#9454 - #9539) I didn't know those were ever in Nortran service. I know of 3 at South Suburban Safeway lines (#462, #464 and #468) and a few at West towns(#454 - #461, #476 - #539) Thanks to your publication in the MCI books. I guess my question would be What is Suburban Transit System? Was that somehow a parent organization to Nortran. Like Pace is to Northwest Division.

[Busjack]

I guess my question would be What is Suburban Transit System? Was that somehow a parent organization to Nortran. Like Pace is to Northwest Division.

Suburban was in Oak Lawn, and had the turquoise and coral buses. See description under Bus Rosters on the Web.

Basically at the time at issue, private companies were going out of business, and those that were left were supported by the RTA when it was formed. Suburban was one of those private companies that survived until the RTA took it over in the early 1980s.

As far as Nortran, it was organized as a Mass Transit District to take over service from bus companies that went out of business--primarily United Motor Coach, although it reestablished some Evanston and Glenview bus company routes (with RTA funding) when those companies went out of business without being directly acquired.

As far as Mass Transit Districts, I beleive that Nortran was the only one in Cook County that operated its service, although there were others (South Suburban, West Suburban, Northwest) that owned the equipment obtained through government grants.

Update: I had mentioned about living in West Rogers Park and not seeing albinos in Nortran territory, but now realize that the time Andre was talking about was 1979-1980, not the heyday of the suburban albino in 1976. I can't comment on 1979-1980.