New Eldorados?

[artthouwill]

Last night I saw an Eldorado on Pace 310 departing Forest Park Blue Line station. I wasn't close enough to see the bus number on it so I don't know if it was a new bus or transfer from another garage, but I was surprised to see an Eldorado out there. Have the 58 new Eldorados started arriving?

[Busjack]

FTA just confirmed the Pace grant yesterday. So I doubt that the money is here in time for deliveries now.

Pace West had 2665, 2666, which were mostly used on 319 and 643/5. Maybe there was a short on 310 yesterday, since that is not a normal place to expect an ElDorado.

Update: See this post in the RTA Stimulus Funds thread.

[RJL6000]

Pace West had 2665, 2666, which were mostly used on 319 and 643/5. Maybe there was a short on 310 yesterday, since that is not a normal place to expect an ElDorado.

I occasionally see an ElDorado on Route 301 during the weekday afternoon rush period.

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

what are those new Eldorados replacing,what bus is being replaced by those Eldorados?

[Busjack]

what are those new Eldorados replacing,what bus is being replaced by those Eldorados?

Undoubtedly 1993 Orion Is (most of those in the range 2272-2378), which are now the oldest in the fleet and falling from it.

BTW, I should mention that if route 714 bites the dust, that's 6 more buses that don't have to be replaced (i.e. can be diverted to displace Orion Is elsewhere). Since there were apparently 70 of the Orion Is left (out of 106) according to the Pace 2009 budget (although I think that is an underestimate*), and 64 units to replace them, you sort of get the picture.

_________________

*Maybe, maybe not, with the 9 that jesi listed in Ravinia service, which probably means that they are not dead, but also not in the budget. 9 others have been sold off or confirmed dead, at least as far as I know).

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

Undoubtedly 1993 Orion Is (most of those in the range 2272-2378), which are now the oldest in the fleet and falling from it.

BTW, I should mention that if route 714 bites the dust, that's 6 more buses that don't have to be replaced (i.e. can be diverted to displace Orion Is elsewhere). Since there were apparently 70 of the Orion Is left (out of 106) according to the Pace 2009 budget (although I think that is an underestimate*), and 64 units to replace them, you sort of get the picture.

_________________

*Maybe, maybe not, with the 9 that jesi listed in Ravinia service, which probably means that they are not dead, but also not in the budget. 9 others have been sold off or confirmed dead, at least as far as I know).

why are they are replacing a 40 footer with a 30 footer?

that doesn't make any sense. are they stupid or something?

Beside, Chicago PACE is worst TA.

[Busjack]

why are they are replacing a 40 footer with a 30 footer?

that doesn't make any sense. are they stupid or something?

Beside, Chicago PACE is worst TA.

Why do you make accusations when you are apparently not from the area and do not know local conditions?

The real question with Pace (at least on the North Shore and Northwest) is that why were they running 40 foot buses on routes (such as 209, 210, 234, 240, 241, 421, 422, 423, 623), that, as far as I am concerned, could be covered by a paratransit, no less a 30 footer. The reason, of course, is that they are short equipment, so they run 16 year old buses.

As Pace has consistently said, it is more economical to run a 30 footer than a 40 footer for its load requirements over most of its system. Do you have any evidence otherwise? Or are you like the woman who goes to the Pace board meetings, and when told that McHenry County is a net contributor to Chicago because it doesn't have a fixed route bus system, says that McHenry should have a fixed route system, too, when money is tight?

N.B. These are rhetorical questions.

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

Why do you make accusations when you are apparently not from the area and do not know local conditions?

The real question with Pace (at least on the North Shore and Northwest) is that why were they running 40 foot buses on routes (such as 209, 210, 234, 240, 241, 421, 422, 423, 623), that, as far as I am concerned, could be covered by a paratransit, no less a 30 footer. The reason, of course, is that they are short equipment, so they run 16 year old buses.

As Pace has consistently said, it is more economical to run a 30 footer than a 40 footer for its load requirements over most of its system. Do you have any evidence otherwise? Or are you like the woman who goes to the Pace board meetings, and when told that McHenry County is a net contributor to Chicago because it doesn't have a fixed route bus system, says that McHenry should have a fixed route system, too, when money is tight?

N.B. These are rhetorical questions.

so are there using 30 footers on all routes?

does this mean Chicago PACE wants to be 100% 30 footer?

because if they are,then that will not be good.

I mean there are some routes that have high ridership?

I will admit that I hate Eldorado buses since there crap,I wish Eldorado was out of bisnuess.

They should have brough Orion VII NG instead of eldorados,Chicago PACE sure making transportation and their routes worst.

what else did Eldorado buses replace?

Also I'm Glad NYCT doesn't order buses from Eldorado,they will never obtain order from Eldorado.

[trainman8119]

The real question with Pace (at least on the North Shore and Northwest) is that why were they running 40 foot buses on routes (such as 209, 210, 234, 240, 241, 421, 422, 423, 623

Actually, 209 is run with Eldos about 1/2 the time. They use them entirely on weekends.

During the week, the runs that don't go through to the 234 are usually Eldos too.

Northwest doesn't have enough of them there to cover the 240 and 241 if they

are using them on 694 and 209 (what do they have, only 5 ???)

[Busjack]

Actually, 209 is run with Eldos about 1/2 the time. They use them entirely on weekends.

During the week, the runs that don't go through to the 234 are usually Eldos too.

Northwest doesn't have enough of them there to cover the 240 and 241 if they

are using them on 694 and 209 (what do they have, only 5 ???)

That's why I put those two routes on the list.

The answer is 4: 2704-2707. The dependable places to find them are 690 and 694, but they also turn up on 209-234 (I have seen one in Wheeling), and on a very sporadic basis on Northwest's share of 422 and 423 (of course North Shore contributes its 2600s to the latter two routes, too).

[Busjack]

so are there [sic] using 30 footers on all routes?

No.

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

No.

so are the Eldorados are being used on low ridership routes?

[Busjack]

Pretty much so.

[rotjohns]

Any speculation as to where the new Eldos are going? This is an idea, but don't know whether or not it would work. Maybe send some of the new Eldos to Joliet as I am sure the 35 foot NABIS are not that busy, then take those NABIS and send them to Waukegan to take out the old Orions up there. I know Naperville has at least 2 old NABIS and Westmont has at least 6 (maybe more) of them there. Send some of the Joliet NABIs to Westmont. The rest of the Eldos then can be allocated to the north to take out the rest of the Orions. Again, just ideas. What do you think?

[rotjohns]

My bad, I meant Naperville has at least 2 old Orions, not NABIs.

[Busjack]

Any speculation as to where the new Eldos are going? This is an idea, but don't know whether or not it would work....What do you think?

The easiest one is that 15 go to North Shore, since it has about 15 Orion Is (mixed between 35 and 40 footers) on routes that now run mixed ElDorados.

The two Orions in Naperville, and 6 at Westmont (between the Lisle and Clarendon Hills contracts) more than likely are gone, and I would guess replaced by ElDorados. If I were really doing a crap shoot, the Westmont ones by the 6 ElDorados no longer needed at Fox after 714 bites it.

I previously mentioned that there was a number of Northwest routes that could use ElDorados. There are 6 or 7 Orion Is left in North (Waukegan).

Even if all the Orion Is in North Shore and Northwest were gone, that would leave about 22 40 footers in NS and 82 in NW. I'm not saying that will happen, and probably won't at NW, since it would leave NW a bit short on 40 footers.

Academy could use ElDorados on 696/699, and maybe 326 and 616. Definitely not on 600 or 606.

----------------------------------

However, we get to the more interesting question, which is the effect of shifts. Although the numbers are starting to look like Pace won't need much more than the 58 buses on order, plus the 10 to be freed up if the public hearings turn out as expected, one can undoubtedly bet that buses will not necessarily be replaced where they are now. There probably will be more 6600 shifts. Your surmise about Joliet is possible (especially with regard to 508 and 832), and I don't know if it needs the 11 or so 40 footers it has now.

Throw in other displacements speculated by others on the forum:

• While South definitely needs 40 footers for routes such as 350, 352, and 364, there is speculation that new routes such as 354, 356, and 372 could get by with ElDorados, as well as some routes in the Chicago Heights-Park Forest area, freeing up some 35 or 40 foot NABIs
• While West generally needs bigger buses, ElDorados could be used on 747, unless there is a huge load of passengers boarding at Oak Brook.With the cutback on school and UPS routes, West really doesn't need more equipment.
• It is possible that some light SW routes (382, 384) could use ElDorados, freeing up some Orion VIs for NW or Nova Classics for Academy.
• It is also possible that some of the about 15 NABIs at Westmont could be swapped for Eldos and put on other service.

Undoubtedly, not all of these will happen. I guess within 6 months or so, we will know.

[rotjohns]

I just went to WebWatch and noticed that there are already some Eldos in Joliet & I didn't know that. There's even one on the 834 and I've NEVER seen an Eldo on the 834 and I live very close to that route. That would make me wonder if the 834 even needs 40 footers anymore?

[busfan2847]

[*]While West generally needs bigger buses, ElDorados could be used on 747, unless there is a huge load of passengers boarding at Oak Brook.With the cutback on school and UPS routes, West really doesn't need more equipment.

I have already caught an ElDorado on the 747 (2666) on a mid afternoon run in the week from Forest Park with two other people on it.

[Busjack]

I just went to WebWatch and noticed that there are already some Eldos in Joliet & I didn't know that. There's even one on the 834 and I've NEVER seen an Eldo on the 834 and I live very close to that route. That would make me wonder if the 834 even needs 40 footers anymore?

Now that you mention it, three have just shown up, and out of range compared to prior fleet numbers.

I wonder what's up, since that order was not announced. I was thinking the possibility of false positives, but three of them at once is a bit too much. Sort of like 2703 being seen in Aurora before that order was announced. Pace said that the stimulus orders couldn't be finalized until last week and the buses not on the street for a while, so are these stimulus buses, or from some side deal (such as for Naperville or Wheaton)?

Of course, one can't get a full picture of Joliet, because 504, 507 and 508 are usually unavailable.

[rotjohns]

I don't think it's a side deal from Naperville or Wheaton. Wikipedia shows the 58 buses being delivered as 2742-2799, but as WebWatch points out, 2743 was on the 834 earlier and 2748 is on route 505 today as of 12:49PM. 2744 is on the 509 also. Plus I don't think there's 11 40 footers in Joliet anymore because I know 6246-6248 is at Pace West now (saw 6248 yesterday at N. Riverside) which would leave 6249-6256? Joliet may be unloading its NABIs and it makes sense. I know the 834 can be crowded at times, but never on the weekends to the point it needs a 40-footer and I can't imagine the 501 is either. Those are the only 2 routes with 40 footers now. The Eldo on the 747 doesn't surprise me either. I really don't think you'll see Pace order anymore 40 footers anytime soon until the Orion IV are subject to retire & that's 4 years away at the earliest. Even the 1999 NABIs would be fine to replace with 30 footers when that time comes because there are only 22 of them (all south except for 2401). Busjack you are so right about SW, I go down 79th street all the time and when I look at the 384, NOBODY is on that bus. That is a 35 footer at best. So some of those buses can head north or south.

[Busjack]

I don't think it's a side deal from Naperville or Wheaton.

I didn't say "from," I said "as" which I meant "like." What I meant is that buses for those communities did not show up in the published Pace budget. A web search indicated that there was a separate grant for Wheaton, but I have never found anything documenting where the $10 million for the 29 Naperville buses came from. At least then Pace said it was ordering 96 buses.

Also, don't take Wikipedia's word for anything. In addition to Wikipedia being unreliable, I put in 2799 on the basis of the Pace stimulus bill announcement. But I guess we won't know the true extent of the order until 2800 shows up. I bet that it will.

[rotjohns]

Next time I'm in Joliet (which will be next week), I'll have a look. When I was in downtown Joliet a few months ago, there were nothing but NABIs. So something's up, but I guess we'll just wait and see.

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

is PACE ever gonna buy Orion VII NG in the future?

someone told me that PACE was talking of ordering Orion VII NG.

If they do really order Orion VII NG,which i dobut it,then maybe the Orion VII NG can replace the 1995 Nova Bus Classic and 1998 NABI 40LFW and it would be great to have Orion VII NGs.

[Busjack]

is PACE ever gonna buy Orion VII NG in the future?

someone told me that PACE was talking of ordering Orion VII NG.

If they do really order Orion VII NG,which i dobut it,then maybe the Orion VII NG can replace the 1995 Nova Bus Classic and 1998 NABI 40LFW and it would be great to have Orion VII NGs.

You tell us--will Orion be the low bidder on Pace specs? That is the only way Pace has issued contracts in the past 10 years, and given constraints in its capital funding, sure to continue to be the only way.

And since Pace isn't being forthcoming about its orders, as indicated earlier today, do you know what is the source of the money for the purchase that somebody told you about?

[MTA Bus Orion V 104]

You tell us--will Orion be the low bidder on Pace specs? That is the only way Pace has issued contracts in the past 10 years, and given constraints in its capital funding, sure to continue to be the only way.

And since Pace isn't being forthcoming about its orders, as indicated earlier today, do you know what is the source of the money for the purchase that somebody told you about?

idk,NGs may be expensive or something.

Also i have no source,that why i said "I doubt it will happen" but it would be great if they did order NGs.