CTA Union Concessions ?

[Busjack]

Considering my history of posting rumors ?

Can I ask you .... do you actually work for CTA or watch the news and think you know all the internal workings of CTA ? That was a very dumb comment for you to post since you have never dis-proven any of my posts to this date as of yet !

The people that are replying that work for CTA know whats going on and are posting inteligent replys here. If you want a job with CTA so bad .... apply for one ! Please leave the rude comments out of this conversation.

Thank You

I guess this is a ruomr also.

http://www.wgntv.com...-tax-hike-nov16,0,6204012.story

Like I said ..... read towards the bottom. Its about union busting.

CTA has been trying to get out of contributing their share to the pension plan for years. we have no "Lucrative Pension Plan". 26 years of service for the old timers gets you about $2100 a month after taxes and health care costs for a single person. $16-1700 a month for the family plan.

However, you play both sides of the story.

The Bloomberg you cited said that bonds were sold to cover the pension. So, your claim that "CTA has been trying to get out of contributing their share to the pension plan for years" does not have current relevance. Likewise, you said that no nonunion members got termination notices, but this article says "the CTA plans to lay off more than 1,000 union employees and about 100 non-union administrative staffers as part of closing a projected $300 million budget deficit in 2010."

However, like having a history of posting rumors, you have a history of not facing the contradictions in the positions you have taken or in the materials you endorse. As to disproving your posts, I said that I would not get into an internal debate over the CTA, since both here and the CTA Tattler prove that any time this type of story is posted, someone on the inside contradicts it. All I can establish is that you consistently contradict yourself, but apparently don't realize it.

I suppose that you can take the comparison to the airlines as union busting, but since the union isn't giving back anything, the only alternative seems layoffs.

BTW: Were you at the 10:00 am rally today? Did it save any jobs? Did Robert Kelly convince anyone outside the CTA to demand that their gas taxes be raised?

[busfan]

However, you play both sides of the story.

The Bloomberg you cited said that bonds were sold to cover the pension. So, your claim that "CTA has been trying to get out of contributing their share to the pension plan for years" does not have current relevance. Likewise, you said that no nonunion members got termination notices, but this article says "the CTA plans to lay off more than 1,000 union employees and about 100 non-union administrative staffers as part of closing a projected $300 million budget deficit in 2010."

However, like having a history of posting rumors, you have a history of not facing the contradictions in the positions you have taken or in the materials you endorse. As to disproving your posts, I said that I would not get into an internal debate over the CTA, since both here and the CTA Tattler prove that any time this type of story is posted, someone on the inside contradicts it. All I can establish is that you consistently contradict yourself, but apparently don't realize it.

I suppose that you can take the comparison to the airlines as union busting, but since the union isn't giving back anything, the only alternative seems layoffs.

BTW: Were you at the 10:00 am rally today? Did it save any jobs? Did Robert Kelly convince anyone outside the CTA to demand that their gas taxes be raised?

I could not attend since I worked at that time. CTA dont make it a policy of alowing their employees to leave the property so they can go protest against them. Did you realize that the Union requested that "employees who were off at that time come to the rally". No union should have to give up anything when the company is out thowing money out the window, and is out to bust the union. If you knew anything you would realize back in March Carole Brown went down to springfield several times trying to get out of that Pension Obligation. If they can get the Illinois Pension Code for CTA employees changed they would. I do not recall saying "no non-union members" got a layoff notice. I recall several times saying "I know of no mangagers that got layoff notices". The managers that got $20,000 bonuses and big raises and make a minimun of $78,000 a year now. If you claim to not want to get into any internal debate why do you constantly do it anyway? I think the employees here such as myself with 25 years of service would know a little more than someone who has 4000+ posts on a message board. Like Jefferson says ... CTA wants you to only know what CTA wants to tell you. Its very silly to say that "since both here and the CTA Tattler prove that any time this type of story is posted, someone on the inside contradicts it". Wouldnt that tell you that just maybe people that actually work for CTA would know a little more than Joe Public ?

[busfan]

And the comment about the Gas Tax ....... 2 years ago people in Springfield fought to get it but Blogo said NO WAY. Is it fair that RTA determins what CTA will get even though CTA moves thousands more people a day and is the bigger entity? CTA has been trying to change that in Springfield with no luck also. When CTA asked to raise the gas tax everyone though it was a good idea since it would solve their problems forever. Now CTA dont want a Gas Tax Increase, they want to layoff union workers. (90% would be union workers). Look at it this way ... when the price of gas goes up $.10 to $1.50 everyone just chalks it up as "oh well theres nothing you can you do". But now that 3% would go to CTA to save the transportaion in Chicago possibly forever ... Everyone thinks Kelly has a dumb idea. But when the increase in gas prices result in the oil companys making the profit, its ok. But the point is .... CTA is looking to eliminate Union Jobs permanently so they can do more sub-contracting. They could save millions internally with other cuts in subcontracting, parts suppliers, etc. So the money is a non issue here. The Unions are just throwing ideas out there knowing CTA dont want more money, just an excuse to cut jobs. Huberman was to soft at Union Busting, so Daley appointed someone else to do it.

[Busjack]

If they can get the Illinois Pension Code for CTA employees changed they would.

And the comment about the Gas Tax ....... 2 years ago people in Springfield fought to get it but Blogo said NO WAY. Is it fair that RTA determins[sic ] what CTA will get even though CTA moves thousands more people a day and is the bigger entity? CTA has been trying to change that in Springfield with no luck also. When CTA asked to raise the gas tax everyone though it was a good idea since it would solve their problems forever. Now CTA dont[sic ] want a Gas Tax Increase, they want to layoff union workers. (90% would be union workers). Look at it this way ... when the price of gas goes up $.10 to $1.50 everyone just chalks it up as "oh well theres nothing you can you do". But now that 3% would go to CTA to save the transportaion in Chicago possibly forever ... Everyone thinks Kelly has a dumb idea. But when the increase in gas prices result in the oil companys[sic ] making the profit, its ok. ...

Since the above deals with external matters, I can tell you again that you don't know what you are talking about.

As far as "Blago saying no way"...he said "no way" to any tax. But he did sign the 2008 Bill with contained Sales Tax and Real Estate Transfer Tax hikes, on the condition of Free Rides For Seniors. So, there was a "way" with him.

How could a gas tax solve the problems forever? You tell me. With gas prices going up from $3.00 to $5.00 a gallon in 2008, and the highway people saying that gallonage went way down so they had to bleed the trust fund, what makes you think that the RTA's share would have permanently kept up? And then the reason gas prices went down was that the market collapsed. I take it that you don't remember that gasoline prices plunged in October, 2008 to about $1.69 a gallon. 3% of $1.69 is sure a lot less than 3% of $4.69. Nonetheless, are the people who tell you this the same brains that locked CTA's diesel prices at $4.50 a gallon, when the going price is about $2.00? (You can look at the monthly Financial Reports on transitchicago.com.) And it would "solve their problems forever" if more hybrid and electric cars are sold? Please.

Is it fair that the RTA determines? By law, the RTA is to collect the taxes (except the RETT) and approve the budgets. It does it for CTA, Pace, and Metra. Combined it is bigger than all three. You make it sound like Pace is is setting the CTA budget. CTA does not have any tax authority, even though its incompetent management has always said that suburban taxpayers owe it something. Rant: If CTA wants to be an arm of Mayor Daley (and Daley says it is an agency under his control), confine its taxing to Chicago. Tell your union leaders that those of us in Cook County do not want to pay the 1.25% RTA tax (or to limit it to the .75% paid in the collar counties) and we want our money going only to Pace and Metra, and tighten your belts more.

As far as the Pension Code, do you really believe that Carole could get overturned Article 9 Section 5 of the Illinois Constitution?

So, on external matters, either you are horribly confused, or the union is grossly misleading you. And, if you want to be more persuasive, get a browser with a spell checker.

[greenstreet]

I do not recall saying "no non-union members" got a layoff notice. I recall several times saying "I know of no mangagers that got layoff notices".

You might not recall it, but you did say it. On Nov 17, you said "As of this date, no managers got layoff notices." That was incorrect. Faced with proof, you may now accept it's not true, but you can't deny saying it.

Like Jefferson says ... CTA wants you to only know what CTA wants to tell you.

And Jefferson only wants you to know what Jefferson wants to tell you.

Its very silly to say that "since both here and the CTA Tattler prove that any time this type of story is posted, someone on the inside contradicts it". Wouldnt that tell you that just maybe people that actually work for CTA would know a little more than Joe Public ?

I think you fail to realize that busjack was pointing out that there are people (at CTA and outside CTA) who post rebuttals that contradict what you claim to know. I guess the question is - who has better information? Someone who gets his info from garage floor rumors and union chatter, or someone who has access to real facts?

[Busjack]

I think you fail to realize that busjack was pointing out that there are people (at CTA and outside CTA) who post rebuttals that contradict what you claim to know. I guess the question is - who has better information? Someone who gets his info from garage floor rumors and union chatter, or someone who has access to real facts?

My reference was that someone who seems to have enough facts to indicate that he or she is within CTA rebuts the person who says he is from CTA. Of course, the Internet being the Internet, we don't know who any of you are. But, when I say that I'm not getting into internal matters, it seems like Greenstreet is adequately rebutting you with regard to them.

[busfan]

Well Greenstreet since your putting it that way and jumping in after I said I might have made a mistake,

Lets see your proof. You contradict me and say thats proof? I asked 3 managers today if any Bus Maintenance Managers got layoff notices and they all replied "not yet, but they are expecting them. And your "real facts"? Think about what you said ... your telling me not to listen to the postings at the garages that CTA puts out, dont listen to what managers tell me since they work there and know and attend meetings, but instead to listen to something I read on the internet from people who dont work for CTA. Could you be a little more specific other than "I know 2 managers that got layoff notices" ? That does not constitute proof to me.

And Busjerk, (sorry there goes my spelling again)

If you actually think CTA cannot pursuade them to change the Il. Pension Code to get out of the pension your wrong. They have been working on it very hard. But I guess you wouldnt know sine they didnt post it on CTAtattler. Hell, 2 years ago when they got the money to stop the doomsday, we got a new contract. And the whole Pension Code was changed for CTA Employees. Our Pension, multiplier, and Pension Health Care are no longer an issue for contract negotiations. It is now part of the Illinois Pension Code.

http://ilga.gov/legislation/95/HB/09500HB0656ren.htm

You can really tell from posts here the people that dont work for CTA, and the people who do work for CTA that have been there for 3 or so years.

[Busjack]

And Busjerk, (sorry there goes my spelling again)

If you actually think CTA cannot pursuade them to change the Il. Pension Code to get out of the pension your wrong. They are working on it very hard. Hell, 2 years ago when they got the money to stop the doomsday, we got a new contract. And the whole Pension Code was changed for CTA Employees. Our Pension is no longer an issue for contract negotiations.

http://ilga.gov/legi...00HB0656ren.htm

Sure. That was to authorize the bond issue. It WAS TO PROTECT YOU FROM A DEFAULT, not to cut your pension.

All you did was to cite a version of the 2008 RTA Act.

Since you talk about your 25 years experience in the bus barn, I have a law degree. As I mentioned to someone else, be careful who you ask to interpret legislation or regulations.

You can really tell from posts here the people that dont [sic] work for CTA, and the people who do work for CTA that have been there for 3 or so years.

One doesn't have to work for CTA to know what you say about the gas tax being a permanent solution is baloney.

[busfan]

As far as the Pension Code, do you really believe that Carole could get overturned Article 9 Section 5 of the Illinois Constitution?

SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS

Membership in any pension or retirement system of the

State, any unit of local government or school district, or

any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an

enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which

shall not be diminished or impaired.

(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

She cant get that overturned, but there is nothing in there that says she cant get out of paying their 12%. The BENEFITS CANT BE DIMINISHED, it dont say CTA's contributions cant be diminished, and someone would have to make it up. US. Like I said, in the mid 90's or so CTA was not contributing their 6% for a few years. That was most of the reason the Pension Plan funding went so low. Thats about the time we stopped getting yearly Pension Statements. Heck of a coincidence.

I will admit I said CTA has the best layers in the country and Im probably wrong, but they are very very good and finding "loopholes" in everything.

You are interpreting the way you want. Not the way it reads. Law degree or no law degree.

[Busjack]

SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS

Membership in any pension or retirement system of the

State, any unit of local government or school district, orI

any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an

enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which

shall not be diminished or impaired.

(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

She cant get that overturned, but there is nothing in there that says she cant get out of paying their 12%. The BENEFITS CANT BE DIMINISHED, it dont say CTA's contributions cant be diminished, . US. Like I said, in the mid 90's or so CTA was not contributing their 6% for a few years. That was most of the reason the Pension Plan funding went so low. Thats about the time we stopped getting yearly Pension Statements. Heck of a coincidence.

I will admit I said CTA has the best layers in the country and Im probably wrong, but they are very very good and finding "loopholes" in everything.

You are interpreting the way you want. Not the way it reads. Law degree or no law degree.

busfan, you are running on busfumes and layer cake now.

What do you think the transaction cited in the Bloomberg article was about? They borrowed money to replenish the pension fund. That might have been a stupid deal, as Bloomberg said, but the fund is now funded at least better than it was.

"and someone would have to make it up." That's right,but besides your contributions, it is the TAXPAYERS WHO ARE ON THE HOOK. So, if the CTA doesn't kick in the 12%, who do you think will have to? You have a defined benefit plan, don't you? Do you know what one is?

In fact, CTA is more on the hook. Kruesi's boys didn't pay their contributions, but now there is no way CTA can avoid paying the bondholders. That's part of the deficit story.

Maybe you shouldn't be playing lawyer. Your statement about CTA "layers" indicates that you are out of your league. Since you don't respect that I have a law degree (and also wrote an encyclopedia article on the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act*), why should I care if you claim to have 25 years in the barn?

___________

*Not Wikipedia, but a real encyclopedia. If you go to the 29th Floor of the Daley Center, there is a way to verify that.

[busfan]

Either you cant read or you just dont understand what you are reading. Because you claim to be a lawyer dont mean anything to me. You tend to twist things around they way you want to and then claim Im the one starting "rumors". You just have no clue as to what your even saying. You are constanly contradicting you own posts.

[Busjack]

Either you cant [sic] read or you just dont [sic] understand what you are reading. Because you claim to be a lawyer dont [sic] mean anything to me. You tend to twist things around they way you want to and then claim Im the one starting "rumors". You just have no clue as to what your even saying. You are constanly contradicting you [sic] own posts.

Look who is talking. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. Have you heard about the psychological term "projection?"

Apparently an apostrophe doesn't mean a thing to you either.

However, since you have just reduced yourself to a punching bag, I'm giving up on this. Good day.

Update: I forgot to make my usual offer that if you delete the message I quoted, I'll delete this.

[busfan]

As far as the Pension Code, do you really believe that Carole could get overturned Article 9 Section 5 of the Illinois Constitution?

Your a real trip!

You post something, I make you look stupid, then you change it and refer to the Bloomberg article ? Your problem is you think becaue you have a so called "Law Degree" you know everything. Are you an actual practicing lawyer ? Or a lawyer that corrects peoples spelling mistakes? Then you even said Krusei didnt contribute to the plan all them years. I thought you said the Illinois Constitution would have to be changed to do that? I will repeat myself since you seem to be a little dumber than I thought.

BACK IN MAY CAROLE BROWN WENT DOWN TO SPRINGFIELD TO TRY AND GET THE STATE TO APPROVE CTA NOT CONTRIBUTING THE 12% FOR THE NEXT YEAR SO CTA CAN USE THE 78MIL. FOR THEIR OPERATING BUDGET.

Im telling you what I know. Why dont you call Carole Brown and tell her that she cant do it? Dont tell me Im stupid. Grow up dude ! Your making yourself look really dumb. You should have never told anyone your a Lawyer.

Im not reduced to a punching bag by you, your making yourself look really dumb here. Since you seem to know everything and your have a law degree, tell me this....

How many innocent people are in jails and prisons because the lawyers they had didnt know what they were doing or talking about when they represented them by "interpreting the law" in front of a judge?

If they interpret the law like you do, this country is in big trouble. I would be leary of any lawyer that has over 4500 posts on a messagebaord. Obviously you dont have many cases and dont spend time in court since your whole life is on the computer insulting people because you think you know everything. Find something else to do other than poke your nose in peoples buisness who come on here to try and gather information and learn something. Like you said "you have no knowledge of the internal working of CTA". Then leave that to the people who actually do.

[busfan]

Update: I forgot to make my usual offer that if you delete the message I quoted, I'll delete this.

How can I delete a message you quoted ? I can delete a post I wrote that quoted you. If you quoted my message in a reply I cannot delete your post. Look in the right hand corner of the posts. There are numbers. On this thread they go in order from 1 to 60'something now. All in order. None missing. I think you should stay away from your computer when your drinking. You have some real issues that maybe you need to talk to a psychiatrist about.

If your refering to me deleting a post that corrected your mistake so you can take back your post, forget it. You started all this and instead of trying to discuss it you started insulting me here.

Quit while your ahead, your making yourself look really bad here.

[Busjack]

How can I delete a message you quoted ? I can delete a post I wrote that quoted you

You could do that, then I would delete my message.

But since you want to use this forum to make yourself look foolish (see how many negative votes you have), if you don't delete your own messages that insult me, mine about projection, which quotes your prior one, will not be deleted be me.

Remember, there are Community Guidelines, and you are coming mighty close to violating them.

[busfan]

Since you say others have rumor, have you interviewed every one of them and confirmed that none of them did? Considering your history of posting your own rumors on this board, I doubt it.

But, as I said before,I'll let others have their internal dispute.

This is exactly where you started it......

If you worked for CTA you would know that 99% of the rumors that go on do happen. Might be a week, might be 6 months, but they do happen.

[busfan]

Blago only "gave" the CTA about $50 million in funny money is 2007, as a stop gap until a bill could be passed, to stave off Doomsday when twice threatened during that year. If you are talking about the 2008 RTA bill, to which he added free rides, Blago gave nothing--taxes were increased, in that your pension is now funded by bonds that are funded by the Real Estate Transfer Tax. Have you purchased or sold a house in Chicago lately? Neither has anyone else. That's why it didn't work.

Another correction for you ..... You said CTA never got the 300 mil. when I mentioned it. You said Blogo gave CTA that $50 mil. in Sept. to carry them over till the bill was passed at the end of the year. When that bill was passed they got 300 mil.I said the CTA was supposed to be bailed out and you turned to the bonds being a failure due to real estate transfer tax not going the way they planned. You even said the bonds were used for the pension. The bonds came from the Property Tax Sales Increase. That had nothing to do with the 300 mil. they got. Read what you wrote! They did get the $300 mil. that was supposed to carry them over for a long time. Thats why we got a 5 years contract for the 1st time. It was supposed to have solved their problems.

Im done, I could spend all day posting things I have corrected you on, so stop your insults.......

[busfan]

Im done,

Your to childish for me to deal with. You post something, I reply, then you go back and edit your post. Real childish to do such a thing.

Later

[Buslover88]

Can you guys at least take this to the PM board? :)

[Railwaymodeler]

On the topic of the CTA union, I understand the Pace North union, ATU Local 900, is looking to maybe merge with a CTA union. Anyone know anything? A friend of mine is the president of ATU 900, he bought the Union's laptop from me, and wants me to build ATU 900's website if they don't merge.

I suppose that is why I am so interested - I built a basic framework prototype of the site (Minus much content, just a conceptual prototype), and am not particularly keen on all that work for nothing.

Otherwise, anyone have any thoughts of Pace North's union joining a CTA union? Or is that a topic for another thread?

[greenstreet]

On the topic of the CTA union, I understand the Pace North union, ATU Local 900, is looking to maybe merge with a CTA union. Anyone know anything? A friend of mine is the president of ATU 900, he bought the Union's laptop from me, and wants me to build ATU 900's website if they don't merge.

I suppose that is why I am so interested - I built a basic framework prototype of the site (Minus much content, just a conceptual prototype), and am not particularly keen on all that work for nothing.

Otherwise, anyone have any thoughts of Pace North's union joining a CTA union? Or is that a topic for another thread?

In the September or October #241 newsletter, it referred to four Pace ATU locals having expressed interest in merging with 241. It did not mention which locals, but the accompanying graphic showed at least 4 different PACE locals. I remember it showed graphics for locals 900 and 1759, and I think it also showed a graphic for 1028. However, the text of the letter/article never mentioned specifically which Pace locals were interested. However, it did say that the next step of the process was for local 241 members to vote on a referendum to accept the other locals. This was to occur at the October meeting, and the leadership of 241 was supporting the merger. (I do not know the results of that referendum, or whether it even happened.) Then if 241 members approved it with a 50%-plus-one-vote, the members of the other locals would vote on whether to merge with 241.

Note: Of course, it's important to remember that this information was contained in 241's newsletter. I have frequent issues with the clarity and accuracy of the information provided by the leadership.

[artthouwill]

In the September or October #241 newsletter, it referred to four Pace ATU locals having expressed interest in merging with 241. It did not mention which locals, but the accompanying graphic showed at least 4 different PACE locals. I remember it showed graphics for locals 900 and 1759, and I think it also showed a graphic for 1028. However, the text of the letter/article never mentioned specifically which Pace locals were interested. However, it did say that the next step of the process was for local 241 members to vote on a referendum to accept the other locals. This was to occur at the October meeting, and the leadership of 241 was supporting the merger. (I do not know the results of that referendum, or whether it even happened.) Then if 241 members approved it with a 50%-plus-one-vote, the members of the other locals would vote on whether to merge with 241.

Note: Of course, it's important to remember that this information was contained in 241's newsletter. I have frequent issues with the clarity and accuracy of the information provided by the leadership.

It would be a terrible day if those 4 Pace unions merged with the CTA Union. Transit in the Chicagoland area could be brought to a screeching halt. At least now if the CTA union struck, Pace is still a viable option for many, but being with one union, Pace drivers would be made to strike also, therefore bringing transit to a near standstill. Of course I would expect the union to back this.

[trainman8119]

As a former Pace Union member, I can tell you that many of the locals have been looking for someone to merge with for 20 years. Each garage had its own union and had absolutely no leverage. Pace pretty much could hang someone,just or not. Personally, I would like to see them all get together and get in with someone who could represent them honestly and fairly. Unfortunately, too many of the unions here cave in too easily. Although members with CTA currently have a beef with the company attempting to take away things agreed on, I would hope that they would stand strong, no matter what the final outcome. Daley set a horrible precident with all of this furlough crap and the union giving in. Times are hard, yes...but labor is not the problem here and let the labor unite and have the pols understand that without the workers, the service is non-existent.

[Railwaymodeler]

Trainman, I can tell you that you are right. The president of the Union went into the General Manager's office once to argue about a driver and union member being wrongfully fired, and ended up being hauled out forcibly by police.

At the time I worked for the Waukegan Police, and the officers that responded, later told me they knew this was all BS, but they had to do what they had to do.

Truly, ATU 900 seems fairly weak, but I think, as pointed out, one big union around Chicagoland, would see the end of much of the drivers at Pace at least (Can't speak for CTA working conditions) being bullied.

I do think the unions merging would be a very good thing for the operating conditions.

[Busjack]

Here's a good one from the Sun-Times. Whatever one may think about Rodriguez, including providing a place for Volpe to be stashed, at the end we have Darrell Jefferson saying:

Asked what he thought about the decline in management personnel and salaries, Darrell Jefferson, head of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 241, which represents bus drivers, said the union is concerned with the lack of experience of some managers. "The most important thing to us is that you have people who know what they're doing," Jefferson said. "You cannot run a transit agency like you're running a grocery store."

Isn't this the same Darrell Jefferson that about 2 months ago was saying that the CTA was violating the MTA Act's limit of 3% exempt workers?

There seems to be a clear conflict of interest here, unless it is made clear what managers Jefferson is complaining about losing? I can guess.

Also, a grocery store can't go back to the taxpayers if it isn't making a profit. Of course, you know that is what Jefferson and those organizing the protest marches against the "criminal CTA cuts and layoffs" want to do.