Bus Accidents

[rotjohns]

It hasn't been a good month for buses. First an object is thrown into a bus while going down Lake Shore Drive; then a bus runs into a school, then there's last week incident where a bus accident injures 9 people. Now today, a 53 Pulaski bus gets into an accident and 14 people get injured. Any ideas as to which buses are getting involved in these accidents and why?

[Guest]

It hasn't been a good month for buses. First an object is thrown into a bus while going down Lake Shore Drive; then a bus runs into a school, then there's last week incident where a bus accident injures 9 people. Now today, a 53 Pulaski bus gets into an accident and 14 people get injured. Any ideas as to which buses are getting involved in these accidents and why?

Very simple, Carelessness!! Some accidents may not always be the operators fault, but many of them are preventable.

[chitowndude84]

LOL wake up !!!! It's summer time in the city . EVERYTHING gets crazy !!!

that's what my CPD cop buddy said to me last summer, LMAO !!

[Busjack]

It hasn't been a good month for buses. First an object is thrown into a bus while going down Lake Shore Drive; then a bus runs into a school, then there's last week incident where a bus accident injures 9 people. Now today, a 53 Pulaski bus gets into an accident and 14 people get injured. Any ideas as to which buses are getting involved in these accidents and why?

I'll probably get a -1 here, but it is plain negligence. I used to be on the drivers' case on this, but if one clicks on the FoxChicago link on the front page, it indicates that someone else hit the bus, and the bus driver tried to avoid the accident. If I remember correctly, several of the other recent ones involved similar facts.

Hence if (presumably uninsured, or certainly not insured enough to cover the claims of all the people on the bus) drivers think they can drive like cowboys in the city, it will continue.The bus is just a big target.

[Chicago49xxx]

I was just having this same discussion with some more operators earlier today. There are many factors that come into play. As for careless operators while that are some careless operators out there. Driver fatigue is part of the reason. CTA is overworking there remaining employees to compensate for the layoffs. You have some operators, including myself who are working 3 and even 4 streets in a single run. Operators should never work more than 2 streets on a run in my opinion. We are not machines we get tired and frustrated like everyone else does. This is not the job that you need to let your guard down even for a second. The motoring public needs to also slow down and be patient. I cannot count the times that i have almost hit other vehicles because they don't wanna get stuck behind the bus. They will literally risk there own life to beat a bus. Someone should be out here enforcing the rules keeping cars and other vehicles out of the bus stop and writing tickets for those who disobey. I am surprised that no one has gotten killed from these accidents. With that said im not saying that all operators are tired or that all motorist dont know how to drive. This problem will get worse unless both operators and the motoring public respect the bus.

[cta_44499_FG]

I was just having this same discussion with some more operators earlier today. There are many factors that come into play. As for careless operators while that are some careless operators out there. Driver fatigue is part of the reason. CTA is overworking there remaining employees to compensate for the layoffs. You have some operators, including myself who are working 3 and even 4 streets in a single run. Operators should never work more than 2 streets on a run in my opinion. We are not machines we get tired and frustrated like everyone else does. This is not the job that you need to let your guard down even for a second. The motoring public needs to also slow down and be patient. I cannot count the times that i have almost hit other vehicles because they don't wanna get stuck behind the bus. They will literally risk there own life to beat a bus. Someone should be out here enforcing the rules keeping cars and other vehicles out of the bus stop and writing tickets for those who disobey. I am surprised that no one has gotten killed from these accidents. With that said im not saying that all operators are tired or that all motorist dont know how to drive. This problem will get worse unless both operators and the motoring public respect the bus.

It's a two-way street with this. The public doesn't respect the bus, and they feel we don't respect them. Even the most experienced and courteous bus operator will tell you this. The public simply is undereducated. Additionally, there are some bus operators whom will drive down the street as if they are some supreme deity over the motorists.

[Guest]

Today in downtown at Canal near Ogilvie, I saw a #130 Grant Pk. bus operator get into a verbal altercation with a cab driver, imagine that! The bus driver was yelling out loud at the cabbie, they both turned down Canal, the bus driver pulled up alongside the cab at the next light, he then jerked his bus to the right to block the cab, I hear the bus parking brake, then see the bus driver exiting the bus in the middle of the street and starts screaming at the cabbie. The cabbie tries to pull away, the bus driver then fists the cabbies window.

[rotjohns]

Today in downtown at Canal near Ogilvie, I saw a #130 Grant Pk. bus operator get into a verbal altercation with a cab driver, imagine that! The bus driver was yelling out loud at the cabbie, they both turned down Canal, the bus driver pulled up alongside the cab at the next light, he then jerked his bus to the right to block the cab, I hear the bus parking brake, then see the bus driver exiting the bus in the middle of the street and starts screaming at the cabbie. The cabbie tries to pull away, the bus driver then fists the cabbies window.

See that's the kind of stuff that'll get you fired if caught. Now whether CTA catches it is another story. But my goodness, let it go! I mean you got almost 1000 former CTA employees who would kill to be back working and then you got those whose jobs were saved and now think they are Mr T and can do whatever they want.

[Guest]

See that's the kind of stuff that'll get you fired if caught. Now whether CTA catches it is another story. But my goodness, let it go! I mean you got almost 1000 former CTA employees who would kill to be back working and then you got those whose jobs were saved and now think they are Mr T and can do whatever they want.

The #56 Milwaukee bus I boarded, I guess the driver was running late, he was flying down Washington, swerving past cars, almost blowing the ped crossing in front of City Hall, he was flagged by a #20 Madison bus that was up ahead of him that had stopped. The Milwaukee operator had to jam on his brakes. Had he accelerated through, he very likely wouldve ended up in a collision with a pedestrian possibly taking multiple pedestrians. As we passed Daley Ctr. we saw the Stanley Cup on display.

[rotjohns]

The #56 Milwaukee bus I boarded, I guess the driver was running late, he was flying down Washington, swerving past cars, almost blowing the ped crossing in front of City Hall, he was flagged by a #20 Madison bus that was up ahead of him that had stopped. The Milwaukee operator had to jam on his brakes. Had he accelerated through, he very likely wouldve ended up in a collision with a pedestrian possibly taking multiple pedestrians. As we passed Daley Ctr. we saw the Stanley Cup on display.

Well, that tells me that most of the accidents that occur is what Busjack said: negligence. I wonder how many lawsuits the CTA gets from people injured from these accidents, especially if it was the driver's fault. When I was on the #11 Lincoln the other day, he was going kinda fast too. If you're late, you're late. I know that could mean trouble for the driver and it may not even be his/her fault, but that's no excuse to fly down the street like a maniac.

[Guest]

Well, that tells me that most of the accidents that occur is what Busjack said: negligence. I wonder how many lawsuits the CTA gets from people injured from these accidents, especially if it was the driver's fault. When I was on the #11 Lincoln the other day, he was going kinda fast too. If you're late, you're late. I know that could mean trouble for the driver and it may not even be his/her fault, but that's no excuse to fly down the street like a maniac.

The disturbing part is that you see this all too often. I dont like to call out my fellow CTA drivers but it is what it is. There are bus operators who get too over confident with their driving skill thinking that everyone will just get out of their way, it dosent work that way! It only takes one inattentive driver to cause a serious accident. Driving a bus aggressively is not only unsafe, its just plain stupid! For me at Pace, if Im late, Im Late! The only aggressive driving I do is with the firetruck, even there I still have to maintain full control and concentration of the truck while responding to calls.

[mikeymc77]

Simple solution: Take the bike racks off the buses and replace them with bull bars. You'd only need them at Chicago and Kedzie cuz that seems to be the most affected area. Then the lawless thugs will think twice before they cut off a bus

[cta_44499_FG]

See that's the kind of stuff that'll get you fired if caught. Now whether CTA catches it is another story. But my goodness, let it go! I mean you got almost 1000 former CTA employees who would kill to be back working and then you got those whose jobs were saved and now think they are Mr T and can do whatever they want.

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Me included! I've come into very few "complex" situations in the four years at CTA...but I never went that far! I'd love to come back and replace jerks like this!

[cta_44499_FG]

Well, that tells me that most of the accidents that occur is what Busjack said: negligence. I wonder how many lawsuits the CTA gets from people injured from these accidents, especially if it was the driver's fault. When I was on the #11 Lincoln the other day, he was going kinda fast too. If you're late, you're late. I know that could mean trouble for the driver and it may not even be his/her fault, but that's no excuse to fly down the street like a maniac.

Agreed, but some of our dear customers seem to think that there's no excuse for a bus to be late and that if you're late it's because you are messing around. My attitude is the same though, safety takes priority over the schedule. SORRY!

[Busjack]

Well, that tells me that most of the accidents that occur is what Busjack said: negligence. I wonder how many lawsuits the CTA gets from people injured from these accidents, especially if it was the driver's fault.

If the CTA employee is at fault, they get sued, since a common carrier is held to a high standard of care. The legislature did away with the notice of claim requirement, which was the usual way that CTA got out. CTA has become more aggressive in fighting the suits, but, if the driver was negligent, doesn't really have much of a chance of winning.

On the other hand, I noted that the last couple of cases involved negligence on the part of the driver of the other vehicle. Since I assumed that the real defendant was either uninsured or underinsured compared to the amount of injury caused, I'm not sure what happens in that case, if, in fact, CTA establishes that its employee was not negligent.

[rotjohns]

If the CTA employee is at fault, they get sued, since a common carrier is held to a high standard of care. The legislature did away with the notice of claim requirement, which was the usual way that CTA got out. CTA has become more aggressive in fighting the suits, but, if the driver was negligent, doesn't really have much of a chance of winning.

On the other hand, I noted that the last couple of cases involved negligence on the part of the driver of the other vehicle. Since I assumed that the real defendant was either uninsured or underinsured compared to the amount of injury caused, I'm not sure what happens in that case, if, in fact, CTA establishes that its employee was not negligent.

Maybe this question can be answered from CTA employees or others. If a driver gets into an accident whether its their fault or not, is there a process as far as if they are suspended and/or reduced hours or limited duty? Or does it simply depend on the situation?

[Guest]

Agreed, but some of our dear customers seem to think that there's no excuse for a bus to be late and that if you're late it's because you are messing around. My attitude is the same though, safety takes priority over the schedule. SORRY!

Well said!, I hope they give you your position back. To hell with the schedule if your running late. I am not going to jeopardize anyones safety just to make my schedule. Whether they like you or not, those passengers are counting on you to get them to their destination safely. I dont concern myself with what passengers down the street waiting, are going to say to me if Im late, I will not compromise safety. Even working the #606, it can get a bit tense at times. If I feel myself getting a little tense when operating the bus, I try to calm myself down before I end up doing something stupid. Within reason of course, I do my best not to let passengers attitudes get to me, I just stay focused on getting the job done, then once I reach my destination that trip is over. Give yourself time to relax, recover, getting yourself ready for the return trip. It always helps me when things get tense on the bus. Actually just for humor I just say to myself, "this is my hobby!" Just like the world's most famous bus driver Ralph Kramden once said, "Pins and needles, needles and pins, its a happy man that grins!" lol!!! :lol:

[sw4400]

Just like the world's most famous bus driver Ralph Kramden once said, "Pins and needles, needles and pins, its a happy man that grins!" lol!!!

OT:

"Now what was I mad about?"

"They raised the rent 15%."

"PINS AND NEEDLES, NEEDLES AND PINS, IT'S A HAPPY MAN THAT GRINS!!!" :lol:

[Guest]

OT:

"Now what was I mad about?"

"They raised the rent 15%."

"PINS AND NEEDLES, NEEDLES AND PINS, IT'S A HAPPY MAN THAT GRINS!!!"

Not veer off the subject, but when I see Ralph in action, thats how my dad was!

He even wore his CTA hat just like Ralph did, up and back!

[jajuan]

Simple solution: Take the bike racks off the buses and replace them with bull bars. You'd only need them at Chicago and Kedzie cuz that seems to be the most affected area. Then the lawless thugs will think twice before they cut off a bus

There are people who'll cut off a bus anywhere in this city, not just the west side where Kedzie and Chicago are operating. So those 'lawless thugs' as you put can be found anywhere. And living within the heart of Kedzie's service area I find that statement a bit offensive since a good number of people from that side of town are hard-working and law abiding citizens of this city.

[mikeymc77]

Where have many of these incidents taken place ? The WEST SIDE of Chicago. There is no point in arguing with you. The last time I posted something regarding the obvious high crime rate of the West Side it was called racist. So rather than say anymore about it, I am smart enough to realize once again "You can't fix STUPID"

[jajuan]

That you know of. Who's to say every fender bender involving a CTA bus makes it to the news? They don't always do. And no one said anything about anything being racist, but making broad generalizations or responding with childishness like above get you no where.

[mikeymc77]

Here is what I"m talking about :

Buslover88

Posted 07 October 2007 - 04:52 PM

Busjack, on Oct 7 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

Am I off in saying that it seems like the new equipment is usually what is wrecked?

No, you're correct.

mikeymc77, on Oct 7 2007, 03:54 PM, said:

Justifies my comment on keeping new buses out of the "ghetto"

That sounded a bit racist. Anyway, how are you supposed to do that if all the old buses are being retired? If you do that, then there'll be no buses running, then what happens? And the last time I checked, Roosevelt and Kolmar wasn't a ghetto (to me, ghetto means the projects) area.

Going into my second year of high school ... can't wait :-).

~ Timmy

[jajuan]

Here is what I"m talking about :

Buslover88

Member

Group:Members

Posts:1,107

Joined:24-May 05

Gender:Male

Location:Avondale, Chicago, IL

Favorite Bus:Flxible 5300s, New Flyer 1000s, Optima 500s

Posted 07 October 2007 - 04:52 PM

Busjack, on Oct 7 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

Am I off in saying that it seems like the new equipment is usually what is wrecked?

No, you're correct.

mikeymc77, on Oct 7 2007, 03:54 PM, said:

Justifies my comment on keeping new buses out of the "ghetto"

That sounded a bit racist. Anyway, how are you supposed to do that if all the old buses are being retired? If you do that, then there'll be no buses running, then what happens? And the last time I checked, Roosevelt and Kolmar wasn't a ghetto (to me, ghetto means the projects) area.

Going into my second year of high school ... can't wait :-).

~ Timmy

Just because someone else called a previous comment you made racist does not justify you projecting the same to me. I said your most recent comment was offensive. I made no mention of race. And looking at the young man's overall rebuttal, ignoring his calling that comment racist, he had a valid point and showed that previous comment to which he responded wasn't thoroughly thought through. Now bringing this back on topic, thinking back on a lot of these previous accidents through the recent years they were spread out amongst the garages and didn't always involve a new bus. The incident of the bus, a 6000 whose fleet number I don't recall, smashing into the house involved a bus from 103rd. 6293 had its fatal (to the bus not people) crash while operating as a 9 Ashland if I remember correctly. There's the case of 6832 which we know resulted not only in the bus being totalled but the operator sadly being killed. Now just because a few of the most recent accidents involved buses from Chicago or Kedzie does not translate to most of the concern of any accident laying solely with those garages. As I stated before, that should be a concern for any bus that's on the road from any garage. As the other posts in this thread show a negligent operator can found in any garage, and we all can give instances from anywhere in the city of car drivers acting as if they're invincible when driving near and around buses.

[Busjack]

As far as that goes, IIRC the one on Ashland involved someone else rear ending the bus. Usually the bus has the weight advantage over a car in such a confrontation. I remember differently, in my youth, when a bus hit a fire truck. That shattered the windshield of a New Look, but evidence from bus historians indicate that that bus was fixed and soldiered on at several other bus companies for about another 20 years.

I also couldn't figure out why mikey quoted someone's profile, but there isn't any need for that.

As far as my previous comment that new equipment tends to get hit, in this case it was a 6400, which is currently the CTA's oldest equipment, unless the 6000s miraculously come back (and I'm not betting on that).

Hence, I go back to my point that there are cowboy car drivers all over the city, and the bus is just a large target.