Big Winter Test For CTA Forthcoming

[jajuan]

Nobody published any alerts when buses were stranded in the street in the 1967, 1979, and 2011 snow storms.

In addition, nobody brings up Krambles's book's stories about in the 1979 storm, the Lake-Dan Ryan had most of its equipment out of service, due to the undercar equipment being damaged by the high snow and salt, and the Skokie Swift was completely impassible for a couple of weeks. Not a couple of hours.

It sure is cold out there, but again not like in 1979, when it was reported that 2 feet of snow stayed encrusted on the tracks.

It appears that being fixated on having to copy "service is being restored" alerts, someone has lost all perspective. Maybe he should start posting floodwatch warnings for the weekend.

In the meantime, Kevin O'Neil points out that there are CTA Tweets for those who need them. They seem adequately archived there.

Of course you could always post your own alerts if you feel something is missing. Haven't you beat that particular dead horse enough already?

[Busjack]

Of course you could always post your own alerts if you feel something is missing. Haven't you beat that particular dead horse enough already?

I think you missed the whole point, which is that there is a complete lack of perspective here,

What should I do, start posting alerts that from Jan 15,1979 to Feb. 2, 1979, the Skokie Swift is going to be out of service, and the Evanston Shuttle is going to be down to one track? BTW, Krambles says that the temperature then was -19. The world did not end yesterday.

If nothing else, one could post that CTA did a comparatively good job this time around, as the CTA Tattler did post (at least compared to Metra).

[jajuan]

I think you missed the whole point, which is that there is a complete lack of perspective here,

What should I do, start posting alerts that from Jan 15,1979 to Feb. 2, 1979, the Skokie Swift is going to be out of service, and the Evanston Shuttle is going to be down to one track? BTW, Krambles says that the temperature then was -19. The world did not end yesterday.

If nothing else, one could post that CTA did a comparatively good job this time around, as the CTA Tattler did post (at least compared to Metra).

No one said the world came to an end sir. But how can you expect any perspective for the other storms you mentioned when the those you posing that to either were not born or barely a toddler when the other storms you brought up occurred? So again if you felt anything was missing you could post what things were like as far as what got shutdown and what not if you feel the comparison was missing.

[Busjack]

No one said the world came to an end sir. But how can you expect any perspective for the other storms you mentioned when the those you posing that to either were not born or barely a toddler when the other storms you brought up occurred? So again if you felt anything was missing you could post what things were like as far as what got shutdown and what not if you feel the comparison was missing.

The last I read, sw was around for the 2011 Groundhog Day storm, and appears to believe (from other posts in this thread) that all others will come out the same way.

While there were reports here that artics weren't running out of NP, I don't recall any stories this week about buses being abandoned on LSD. Meanwhile Metra is still reported to be fouled up.

[jajuan]

The last I read, sw was around for the 2011 Groundhog Day storm, and appears to believe (from other posts in this thread) that all others will come out the same way.

While there were reports here that artics weren't running out of NP, I don't recall any stories this week about buses being abandoned on LSD. Meanwhile Metra is still reported to be fouled up.

Yeah but you also brought up the 1967 and 1979 winter storms sir and last I checked he wasn't yet born when either of those occurred. So nice try on trying to deflect the focus down to 2011 storm when you know full well which storms I speaking of when I said the relevant party wasn't born yet at the time. As I said before you can't expect a whole lot a perspective on storms from 35 and 47 years ago approximately from a person who's only 31 years old, based on his birthday given in his profile info.

[Busjack]

Yeah but you also brought up the 1967 and 1979 winter storms sir and last I checked he wasn't yet born when either of those occurred. So nice try on trying to deflect the focus down to 2011 storm when you know full well which storms I speaking of when I said the relevant party wasn't born yet at the time. As I said before you can't expect a whole lot a perspective on storms from 35 and 47 years ago approximately from a person who's only 31 years old, based on his birthday given in his profile info.

You'll also note that I cited other sources for them, not personal recollection. Maybe someone should read some history, or look back at the newspaper retrospectives (such as this one of 1979 published in the Tribune of January 5, 2014). I wasn't around for the American Revolution, either, but I don't claim ignorance of it. But you seem to think that because someone took on the self-imposed task of copying CTA alerts a year or so ago, he has perspective on the weather and service outages, his statement being "This has been thus far the biggest period of Rail Service Alerts in a two day spread due to extreme cold and snow that I've ever seen." I was only pointing out that "Rail Service Alerts that [he had ever] seen" is not the standard, and it was much worse in the past, citing references.

Also, I had noted that most of the alerts were that "service is being restored." Not the kind of disruptions that happened in prior storms.

[jajuan]

You'll also note that I cited other sources for them, not personal recollection. Maybe someone should read some history, or look back at the newspaper retrospectives (such as this one of 1979 published in the Tribune of January 5, 2014). I wasn't around for the American Revolution, either, but I don't claim ignorance of it. But you seem to think that because someone took on the self-imposed task of copying CTA alerts a year or so ago, he has perspective on the weather and service outages, his statement being "This has been thus far the biggest period of Rail Service Alerts in a two day spread due to extreme cold and snow that I've ever seen." I was only pointing out that "Rail Service Alerts that [he had ever] seen" is not the standard, and it was much worse in the past, citing references.

Also, I had noted that most of the alerts were that "service is being restored." Not the kind of disruptions that happened in prior storms.

This has nothing to do with anyone claiming ignorance of events that persons weren't yet born to see. And I think you know that whether you wish to admit it or not. Nor did I ever say that the guy had a full perspective on the weather and service outages. So nice try yet again but not good enough. The guy was making a statement of his own personal perspective on how weather has had an impact on service based on alerts in relation to recent occurrences. Where was he trying to make a point that it was the standard? You quote his statement yet somehow you conveniently ignore the words. He's basically saying that so far for him, this is the biggest winter weather event that's had an impact on service that he himself has ever seen not that it was the biggest one ever to have a transit impact. Or did you miss the words in his statement "that I've ever seen"? OK he made the thread where he puts up CTA's rail service alerts. Big freaking deal. Where is it said that because he did so he has to now give a whole retrospective on every big snow storm that occurred over the last half century and how they impacted service whenever he makes an observation about the most recent big winter weather event up to that point? Regardless of you try to dress it up, the whole exercise was nothing more than you yet again finding ways to make extremely thinly veiled swipes at his having started and maintained that thread. Hence my question that still stands, haven't you beat that particular dead horse enough already?

[Busjack]

....Hence my question that still stands, haven't you beat that particular dead horse enough already?

Well, haven't you? You seem to have beaten the dead horse that I shouldn't post my opinion.

The person about whom this involves has moved on, and I am moving on too, Maybe you should also, as you are not convincing me.

[artthouwill]

Going back to the 2011 Blizzard posts in the Rail Alerts thread, there were reports of suspended service on the Pink Line between 54th/Cermak and Pulaski, Yellow Line service suspension, and the famous switching problems at Howard affecting Red and Purple Lines. Kevin also noted that the 2600s weren't falling apart like the 1999 Blizzard.

This time around only the Yellow Line saw service suspension. Yet there seemed to be a lot of problems related to the doors on trains. The 2600s seemed to suffer the most, however, Monday morning the 5000 series train I was on experienced some door issues. Even though no door had to be cut out, some doors were slower to close than others. While my train wasn't significantly delayed, apparently others were, and coupled with some switching problems at Howard, Harlem (Green Line), Midway, it was a significant period. Note that the Bizzards of 1999 and 2011 were NOT accompanied by near record subzero temps which wrecked havoc not only on CTA but Metra this time as well. Any significant snowfall will affect South Shore trains.

While big snowstorms will have an affect on service, the sheer age of our equipment and infrastructure will leave us vulnerable to equipment problems among other things. IIRC, the 1999 Blizz saw Blue Line service suspended between Jefferson Park and O'Hare with service being replaced by bus shuttles. I believe work had to be done to the undercarriages of the 2600s before service was restored. This time around CTA was able to keep tracks clear, but the equipment is now 15 years older. Can you imagine how bad it would've been if the 2200s were still in revenue service?

The Blzzard of 1979 made weather a political issue as some poor decisions by Michael Bilandic (who shouldn't have been mayor but that is another story) assured his defeat by Jane Byrne that year. Thus it is now imperative that any mayor of Chicago makes sure that streets are plowed and CTA service is running as close to normal as possible, budgets notwithstanding.

AS for me, I'm fine with sw posting delays and alerts here. I'd rather come to this forum and look rather than bothering with CTA's website. As for his observation about the worst that he has seen, that's fine too. No matter who we are, we can always find someone who has seen worse, and eventually there will be those behind him who won't see what he has seen. Those that don't like that thread can easily ignore it, or if they choose to voice their opinions (which is within their rights) to do so with civility and respect. Most of us have been around long enough to know each others temperaments in regards to our transit enthusiasm. Lets not spoil the fun.

[Busjack]

...the 5000 series train I was on experienced some door issues. Even though no door had to be cut out, some doors were slower to close than others. While my train wasn't significantly delayed, apparently others were, and coupled with some switching problems at Howard, Harlem (Green Line), Midway, it was a significant period.

...the sheer age of our equipment and infrastructure will leave us vulnerable to equipment problems among other things. IIRC, the 1999 Blizz saw Blue Line service suspended between Jefferson Park and O'Hare with service being replaced by bus shuttles. I believe work had to be done to the undercarriages of the 2600s before service was restored. This time around CTA was able to keep tracks clear, but the equipment is now 15 years older. Can you imagine how bad it would've been if the 2200s were still in revenue service?

....

The issue essentially is that CTA says it needs new equipment to prevent breakdowns, but if the 5000s were suffering some issues, that isn't entirely working. Also, the 2600s were extensively rebuilt by Alstom starting in 2000, so the 15 years older doesn't explain everything, either.

[artthouwill]

The issue essentially is that CTA says it needs new equipment to prevent breakdowns, but if the 5000s were suffering some issues, that isn't entirely working. Also, the 2600s were extensively rebuilt by Alstom starting in 2000, so the 15 years older doesn't explain everything, either.

The 2600s rebuilding consisted of a lot of things, but new doors weren't among them. A new operator cab wall, new lighting, some hopper windows, new padding for seats, and maybe some undercarriage work, but basically everything else (doors, windows in the middle part of the car, flooring,) was left intact.

Failed to mention that my train departed Harlem at 4:32 a.m. This was that train's first trip so some initial door problems that seemed to disappear by the time we got downtown.

[Busjack]

The 2600s rebuilding consisted of a lot of things, but new doors weren't among them. A new operator cab wall, new lighting, some hopper windows, new padding for seats, and maybe some undercarriage work, but basically everything else (doors, windows in the middle part of the car, flooring,) was left intact.

Failed to mention that my train departed Harlem at 4:32 a.m. This was that train's first trip so some initial door problems that seemed to disappear by the time we got downtown.

We don't know if the "door engines" (the electrical mechanisms that open the doors) were updated, and obviously undercar work would have dealt with "I believe work had to be done to the undercarriages of the 2600s before service was restored."

Obviously, something pretty extensive was done for the need to take them off site, as opposed to the 2400s that apparently got some midlife work done in house.

[4CottageGrove95th]

This time around CTA was able to keep tracks clear, but the equipment is now 15 years older. Can you imagine how bad it would've been if the 2200s were still in revenue service?

I remember first hand the equipment failures experienced by both the 2200 and 2000 series during the Blizzard of 1979. The snow and salt took a heavy toll on the traction motors of those two series because at that time they primarily ran on expressway median lines like the Dan Ryan, Eisenhower and Kennedy expressways. Because the motors were self-ventilating as opposed to forced-ventilation (like on the then-new 2400s and the 6000s), they would suck in the snow and corrosive road salt and burn out. BTW, I was told by a motorman that this was the reason why many of the 2400s that were assigned to the North-South were re-assigned to the Dan Ryan line; the 2000s were in turn re-assigned to North-South, and later to the Evanston Express. In due time, it appears that the 2200s that were on the Dan Ryan line were shifted to the West-Northwest, which also had a number of 2400s that they could train with, as well as a good number of 6000s.

[jajuan]

Well, haven't you? You seem to have beaten the dead horse that I shouldn't post my opinion.

The person about whom this involves has moved on, and I am moving on too, Maybe you should also, as you are not convincing me.

My point is we already know your opinion by now. So let if go. Now moving along......

[Busjack]

My point is we already know your opinion by now. So let if go. Now moving along......

As I said

In the meantime, I thank 4CottageGrove95th, whose recollection seems even more detailed than what the usual history is. I'm still mulling over how WNW would be better, except that the median in the Eisenhower was wider and the expressway part of the Kennedy was shorter.

[BusHunter]

Going back to the 1999 blizzard alot of the #2600's were not yet rehabbed by Alstom. As a result of the rehab, the electrical components that used to be under the car are now placed inside the car as well as the undercarriage is better protected from the weather with vital parts covered up with a plastic shield. If you watch my youtube video on the '99 blizzard you'll see many of the cars were taken out of service for unprotected undercarriages and electrical components being essentially stuck in the elements. Right now CTA is in a better position with no #2200's and #2400's that are either spares or on the lightest service line, so basically it's just #2600's and newer cars in heavy service.

[Busjack]

Going back to the 1999 blizzard alot of the #2600's were not yet rehabbed by Alstom. ...

I thought all were later than that, but chicago-l.org said it started in 1998. Nonetheless, that blizzard was on Jan 1-3, 1999 (CBS2 retrospective; I don't have independent recollection) and Graham says that the first rehabs went into service in March, 1999.

He does agree with you with regard to the undercar equipment, and says that half were out of service.

[sw4400]

From Chicago-l.org 2600 page:

Mid-Life Overhaul

The shortcomings of this series became evident when about 300 went out of service during the Blizzard of '99. Most notably, the undercarriage of the car was such that light snow could be sucked into the ventilation and electrical systems -- obviously a potentially-harmful situation -- making the cars susceptible to breakdown in poor weather.

The CTA launched a mid-life overhaul of the 2600-series cars in 1998 to ensure a service life of up to 30 years for each rail car. Over four years, Alstom Transportation, Inc. of Hornell, New York has continuously rehabbed the cars, delivering them at a rate of 10 to 14 per month, with up to 42 cars off CTA property at any given time. The first rehabbed cars began appearing in service on the Red, Blue and Purple Lines in March 1999.

Car 3018, a typical rehabbed 2600-series unit, brings up the rear on an O'Hare-bound Blue Line train at California on September 3, 2001. For a larger view, click here. (Photo by Mike Farrell)

Under the terms of the initial $169 million contract, 284 of the 598 2600-series cars were sent in for mid-life rehabilitation. An option in the contract allowed for the rehab of the remaining 314 cars and was eventually exercised. The project was originally projected to be completed in Fall 2003, but thanks to efficiency and expediency, the overhaul was finished in October 2002, nearly a year ahead of schedule.

The overhaul included rebuilding the traction motors, installing new armatures, replacing the original air-cooled motor alternator systems with state-of-the-art inverters (which operate without rotating parts and are enclosed in sealed boxes), and new stainless steel control boxes for the heating, lighting and air conditioning controls. These changes will correct the problem of wind-blown snow and contaminants getting into the electrical system, which was the cause of the 2600s' failure during the Blizzard of '99. During the winter of 2001-02, the rehabbed railcars already returned to the system performed exceptionally well, experiencing a more than 300 percent improvement in performance.

Additional changes included upgraded door systems,...

The Blizzard of 1999 occurred on January 2nd, so none of the rehabbed 2600's were on CTA property then. I remember up a few posts some talk about door motors not being updated. I believe they were, judging by this line about the 2600-Series rehab.

The door problems the 2600's experienced during the Polar Vortex last week were probably due to tiring motors. The rehabs occurred 15 years ago, and the general ages of this car series range from 27-33 years old.

[jajuan]

Well today's snowstorm definitely took a big hit on traffic today to the point of having service on the 136 ending late. Bus 1921 on that route went into service at Franklin/Jackson at approximately 7:15 PM according to BusTracker and is just now making it to Lawrence as I write this post. A couple of artics were cued to start service on the route behind 1921 while it was still downtown on LaSalle. However they never appeared on the tracker. I didn't get a chance to see if any of the other rush only Lake Shore express services were as badly hit.

UPDATE: Looks like it was bad enough for 103rd to hold some artics in on the J14 and send out a lot of 1000s instead on that route.