sw4400 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I couldn't create this poll in the current "big winter test" topic, so I needed to start a new one, unfortunately. But use this topic for critiquing the CTA Bus and Rail Service during the storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I couldn't create this poll in the current "big winter test" topic, so I needed to start a new one, unfortunately. But use this topic for critiquing the CTA Bus and Rail Service during the storm. I dont think anyone should criticize CTA's performance during this storm. Buses and trains are pretty much at the mercy of these snowstorms when they hit. These blizzards you just never know what can or what will happen. No doubt public transportation would be affected. Nothing can be done to prevent buses and trains from being stuck. Its incredible how snow can create so much chaos. The best thing anyone could have done was to stay home as was advised by city department heads. I dont think its fair to criticize the CTA or any other agency after a storm of this magnitude. I just got off the most hectic and most challenging 24 hours I ever spent at the fire station this morning and streets all over the west side were almost impassible. I saw many CTA buses stuck all over the area. What can you do in a situation like this?? Not many answers. People even had the nerve to criticize fire dept. response, this alone just infuriates me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I dont think anyone should criticize CTA's performance during this storm. Buses and trains are pretty much at the mercy of these snowstorms when they hit. These blizzards you just never know what can or what will happen. No doubt public transportation would be affected. Nothing can be done to prevent buses and trains from being stuck. Its incredible how snow can create so much chaos. The best thing anyone could have done was to stay home as was advised by city department heads. I dont think its fair to criticize the CTA or any other agency after a storm of this magnitude. I just got off the most hectic and most challenging 24 hours I ever spent at the fire station this morning and streets all over the west side were almost impassible. I saw many CTA buses stuck all over the area. What can you do in a situation like this?? Not many answers. People even had the nerve to criticize fire dept. response, this alone just infuriates me! I seen the videos, CTA5750. Truck 124 was stuck on Drake and ??? during the snowstorm. Personally, I think the CTA did as good a job as can be expected. Buses can only do what the roads allow. The rails could've been done a little better. Switching issues happen, the grade-level and subway-level areas of the rail lines will have problems, I know. I am grateful for what the CFD and CPD can do during such an intense situation. But I am sure there are ways to prevent freezing of the switches, as I'm sure that's why the Red and Purple Lines were having problems at Howard on 2/1/11. Because if the CTA can't keep moving, then people will try foolishly to drive in the storm and end up abandoing their cars all over main and side streets, thus inhibiting the plows, and you people at the CFD and CPD from doing your jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I just got off the most hectic and most challenging 24 hours I ever spent at the fire station this morning.. Did you get any snowmobile duty? BTW, there is a news conference going on right now, and I see, like I did two days ago, Rodriguez standing behind da Mare wearing a red CTA baseball cap. Is that going to become as ubiquitous as Kruesi's yellow slicker? BTW, besides looking like a toady, he looks like a bus washer in that outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Did you get any snowmobile duty? BTW, there is a news conference going on right now, and I see, like I did two days ago, Rodriguez standing behind da Mare wearing a red CTA baseball cap. Is that going to become as ubiquitous as Kruesi's yellow slicker? BTW, besides looking like a toady, he looks like a bus washer in that outfit. We do have a snowmobile assigned to our station and we worked it almost to death yesterday! It was utilized to reach areas where ambulances or fire vehicles could not pass through because of the heavy snow. We attached whats called a "stokes basket" to the snowmobile in order to carry out a person and take them to a waiting ambulance for transport to the hospital. In many areas along the west side it was extremely challenging because of the high snow depths. The snowmobiles will remain assigned at their assigned firehouses for a couple more days at least until the snow begins to clear. At times our firetruck operator, unfortunately not me! did an awesome job! At times he had to use the truck as a kind of battering ram, busting through large snowbanks in order to open a street for the ambulances to pass through and also in the event we would have to return to that street later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 At times he had to use the truck as a kind of battering ram, busting through large snowbanks in order to open a street for the ambulances to pass through and also in the event we would have to return to that street later. I don't think Truck #124 is assigned to your garage, but do you think that's why it ended up stuck on Drake? I'm just lost as to why the Truck would've went down a snow-packed side street instead of sending the snowmobile down, unless the Firehouse for the Engine was on Drake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 We do have a snowmobile assigned to our station and we worked it almost to death yesterday! It was utilized to reach areas where ambulances or fire vehicles could not pass through because of the heavy snow. We attached whats called a "stokes basket" to the snowmobile in order to carry out a person and take them to a waiting ambulance for transport to the hospital. Fox Chicago News showed such last night, calling it a gurney behind the snow mobile. Of course, how the news camera is with an ambulance call is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 The only thing you can really question about the storm as far as CTA operations would have to do with LSD. With 18 foot waves forecasted to occur with a high NE wind, why that road was kept open so long was most likely a mistake. Being that it occured in the rush hour, you wouldn't be able to plow that efficiently and lose your road quicker. Also the closing time of 7-8 PM makes no sense when cars were stuck as of 5-5:30 PM. They were lucky that they didn't get the 18 foot waves or they may have had an emergercy on there hands with more casulties. As far as CTA is concerned with reports of artics slipping and jackknifing I would've took those artics off the drive and put them locally on the inner drive more as a safety issue because the drive that night in my opinion would be dangerous on a somewhat curvy LSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 The only thing you can really question about the storm as far as CTA operations would have to do with LSD. With 18 foot waves forecasted to occur with a high NE wind, why that road was kept open so long was most likely a mistake. Although I didn't see my question of a couple of days ago answered, I guess Orozco gave the official response. I was listening to WLS-AM, where Christina Filiaggi said "I want to bless my bus driver. He said he was not going on Lake Shore Drive, and took local streets, and at least I got home." So, I guess some bus drivers exhibited some initiative in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Now they have a entry on Wikipedia about the "Groundhog Storm 2011" we had. They have pictures on there including a stuck #4009, and a stuck salt truck. (can't seem to get the link to work but I put salt truck in the search engine on there and it popped up.) It talks about all the problems incurred throughout the many states involved. An interesting read. BTW, I was wondering about the '67 storm. Back in the old days (before the modern salt truck we have now) the work buses were equipped with plows. Andre states in one of the bus magazines that 196 salt spreaders were put on to work buses between 1949 and 1970 but there length in service was short. So was the whole snow removal situation not that efficent? I have looked at alot of winter pictures and they always show the main streets with inches of snow on it. I would think plowing or salting side streets would be impossible back then with big buses. Anyone know about or remember anything on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't think Truck #124 is assigned to your garage, but do you think that's why it ended up stuck on Drake? I'm just lost as to why the Truck would've went down a snow-packed side street instead of sending the snowmobile down, unless the Firehouse for the Engine was on Drake. It was Engine co. #124. Maybe the snow was a bit too much for that rig, Im not sure but most Chicago ladder trucks are dual axle and have the power to push through, as for our truck, it was tough but it managed to make it ok. Engine rigs are only single axle so maybe that couldve made the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Although I didn't see my question of a couple of days ago answered, I guess Orozco gave the official response. I was listening to WLS-AM, where Christina Filiaggi said "I want to bless my bus driver. He said he was not going on Lake Shore Drive, and took local streets, and at least I got home." So, I guess some bus drivers exhibited some initiative in that regard. Now that bus driver was a thinker! He thought of the possibility of being stuck and made a back up plan for himself and his passengers! Thats a good bus driver!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DevalDragon Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a traffic accident involving a CTA bus and a car that caused the whole Lake Shore Drive incident? If the bus driver would have moved the bus out of the travel lanes, LSD would have kept moving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a traffic accident involving a CTA bus and a car that caused the whole Lake Shore Drive incident? At least that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 In hindsight, keeping Lake Shore Drive open for so long probably a mistake. But having worked with providing services to people I can honestly say that one was a Catch-22 situation if you really think about it. Had they actually given the directive to close the Drive before 8pm, you would have had people throwing in complaints about why was the Drive closed instead of the current situation of posing the question of should it have been closed sooner than it was. I think the city pretty much did a good job overall taking into consideration what was dealt to it by Mother Nature. We went from one of the worst storms in city history to having things moving again on a somewhat normal basis on the main arterials two days later. The question is still a valid question though because that's the type of question city government should ask itself on how it can improve and do better during the next big snowstorm that may come in the future. As for complaining and getting mad, I think this quote from a woman shown on ABC7 News yesterday after she recovered her own car at a city lot yesterday after being one of those stuck on Lake Shore Drive and towed says a lot. She pretty much said: "I can't really complain or get mad at anyone. Why should I? If I am mad at anyone, it would be myself. I've lived in this city for years and I know how rough Chicago winters can be. I saw the warnings and advisories from the days before, yet I was the one who made the decision to be on the road when the city advised everyone not to. I didn't leave work and downtown as early as I could have, and I made the decision to use Lake Shore Drive when everyone was told conditions would be bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 We went from one of the worst storms in city history to having things moving again on a somewhat normal basis on the main arterials two days later. Aside from the open LSD question, this shows that the state of mind that started the other thread wasn't justified, even if the snowfall was 2" more than the higher prediction a week ago. Now, if it turns out like 1979, where Krambles said (page 92) that there had already been a 7" snow that hadn't thawed, then the 20.3" blizzard, then -19 degrees, then another 12", and everything turned to ice, a whole mess of the traction motors burned out, and then more than half of the cars needed to provide service disabled, and no stops within 5 miles of the Loop, that fear will be justified. But, at this moment, other than the 20" of snow, none the rest has happened, and things seem to be pretty well cleaned up. That is notwithstanding that like the 1967 pictures of buses stuck in the snow, we will have a surplus of phonecam pictures this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 One other possibiity that OEMC could have done that may have prevented the mishap on LSD was to shut down both SB/NB traffic on LSD and reopen the SB lanes to operate as NB "Emergency Lanes" which wouldve kept NB motorists leaving downtown, further away from the lake and have CPD or TMA people to man the SB exits to assist and avoid any confusion. That I think could have been a useful tool in assisting commuters heading home that eve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a traffic accident involving a CTA bus and a car that caused the whole Lake Shore Drive incident? If the bus driver would have moved the bus out of the travel lanes, LSD would have kept moving? Thats is where the fingers are pointing to but no one seems to shed any more light on it except OEMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Here's a video of buses entering Kedzie Garage and one Articulated getting a little stuck while coming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Here's a video of buses entering Kedzie Garage and one Articulated getting a little stuck while coming in. After watching this, Im shaking my head in disbelief. Its painfully obvious the fact that the New Flyer artics are rear wheel drive as opposed to the center drive wheels as on the MAN artics which handled way better. I drove the MAN artics in the snow and they operated much better in this weather. But unfortunately with the rear wheel drive New Flyers, this is what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 After watching this, Im shaking my head in disbelief. Its painfully obvious the fact that the New Flyer artics are rear wheel drive as opposed to the center drive wheels as on the MAN artics which handled way better. I drove the MAN artics in the snow and they operated much better in this weather. But unfortunately with the rear wheel drive New Flyers, this is what happens! All low floor buses have to be rear wheel drive, there is no raised floor to hide the drive line under from a rear engine, or anywhere underneath to put an engine and drive further forward. The MANs had the engines under the front section of the bus with the section after the accordion essentially a trailer (a puller design compared to a pusher design of the New Flyer artics) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Here's a video of buses entering Kedzie Garage and one Articulated getting a little stuck while coming in. It looks to me like he got the bus into the garage. If I am supposed to be impressed by that, I meant what I said earlier. Sorry you took offense. All low floor buses have to be rear wheel drive, there is no raised floor to hide the drive line under from a rear engine, or anywhere underneath to put an engine and drive further forward. The MANs had the engines under the front section of the bus with the section after the accordion essentially a trailer (a puller design compared to a pusher design of the New Flyer artics) Even though all low floor artics are pusher buses, I never understood how they got sufficient traction in snow. According to news, then, there was about 5" on the ground when the LSD mess occurred. People have explained how the turntables have hydraulics to keep the buses from jackknifing, but I still remember the news footage from about 2006 of a NABI getting stuck in the snow, but somehow another one was able to push it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 All low floor buses have to be rear wheel drive, there is no raised floor to hide the drive line under from a rear engine, or anywhere underneath to put an engine and drive further forward. The MANs had the engines under the front section of the bus with the section after the accordion essentially a trailer (a puller design compared to a pusher design of the New Flyer artics) When I drove the MAN artics, they had very good traction. Obviously with the engine and drive wheels in the center of the bus made the trailer so that its not pushing the entire bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCTA Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I dont think anyone should criticize CTA's performance during this storm. Buses and trains are pretty much at the mercy of these snowstorms when they hit. These blizzards you just never know what can or what will happen. No doubt public transportation would be affected. Nothing can be done to prevent buses and trains from being stuck. Its incredible how snow can create so much chaos. The best thing anyone could have done was to stay home as was advised by city department heads. I dont think its fair to criticize the CTA or any other agency after a storm of this magnitude. I just got off the most hectic and most challenging 24 hours I ever spent at the fire station this morning and streets all over the west side were almost impassible. I saw many CTA buses stuck all over the area. What can you do in a situation like this?? Not many answers. People even had the nerve to criticize fire dept. response, this alone just infuriates me! That 2011 blizzard really messed things up for the CTA, didn't it? Buses couldn't even move! And I was just over at WGN-TV's website! It was the same way in 1967! What a mess that was! Buses piled behind one another! Can you believe that? 1967's blizzard was a real monster! Wonder how it was in 1979 and 1999? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 That 2011 blizzard really messed things up for the CTA, didn't it? Buses couldn't even move! And I was just over at WGN-TV's website! It was the same way in 1967! What a mess that was! Buses piled behind one another! Can you believe that? 1967's blizzard was a real monster! Wonder how it was in 1979 and 1999? Just got done watching another Tom Skilling special on the Blizzard 2011 tonight. Once again they pull out the awesome archive videos of stranded CTA buses in both the 67 and 79 storms. My favorite clip is from the 79 blizzard showing two snow covered CTA GMC5307s, one a 7400, slowly passing by the camera, such a cool shot! It was a good special! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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