METRO 40' CNG at S.Holland

[sw4400]

Here's an idea: maybe the CTA should purchase NABI 40LFW CNG to replace the Novas when it comes time for them to retire.

Good idea... maybe NABI actually makes a decent 40-Foot Bus... I wouldn't trust NABI to make anything on wheels until they make good on doing something with the 225 rolling buckets-of-bolts that are parked at 77th and 95th. Now if I were the CEO of NABI and wanted to get the CTA business back again, I'd replace the 2003 model 60-LFW's with a newer model 60-LFW(maybe 20-30 to show the CTA how we, NABI, have improved our product since our errors years ago, then if the CTA likes the test buses, we'll send the remaining 195-205 to the CTA at a big discount, something like 50-75% off the actual pricetag.

[rotjohns]

Good idea... maybe NABI actually makes a decent 40-Foot Bus... I wouldn't trust NABI to make anything on wheels until they make good on doing something with the 225 rolling buckets-of-bolts that are parked at 77th and 95th. Now if I were the CEO of NABI and wanted to get the CTA business back again, I'd replace the 2003 model 60-LFW's with a newer model 60-LFW(maybe 20-30 to show the CTA how we, NABI, have improved our product since our errors years ago, then if the CTA likes the test buses, we'll send the remaining 195-205 to the CTA at a big discount, something like 50-75% off the actual pricetag.

Given the fact there are thousands of 40 and 60-foot Nabis in the USA (especially in Los Angeles, the majority of their fleet are Nabis unless that's changed since the last time I was out there 3 years ago), I truly believe the batch CTA got was simply a bad batch; thankfully they pulled them before something more serious happened. Can't speak for CTA, but Pace has had great luck with their Nabis so I don't see why they wouldn't go back to them.

[Busjack]

Can't speak for CTA, but Pace has had great luck with their Nabis so I don't see why they wouldn't go back to them.

Not according to at least one driver who at least used to be here. However, this and the 2 BRTs that made a similar trip indicate that they aren't on Pace's {bleep} list, like CTA's.

I guess the real test is who gets the order for 9 but up to 416 diesels, but I think that this demonstration can be written off the same as Pace's interest in hybrids--they aren't paying extra.

[Guest]

Given the fact there are thousands of 40 and 60-foot Nabis in the USA (especially in Los Angeles, the majority of their fleet are Nabis unless that's changed since the last time I was out there 3 years ago), I truly believe the batch CTA got was simply a bad batch; thankfully they pulled them before something more serious happened. Can't speak for CTA, but Pace has had great luck with their Nabis so I don't see why they wouldn't go back to them.

Ive been driving the NABIs for four years now at Academy and I havent had anymore problems than Ive had with many other bus models Ive driven. IMO, the Pace Nabis seem to be holding their own. Why drivers dont like them is a mystery to me. But being an experienced bus operator of over 10 years, having driven many bus models, Ill take the Pace Nabis anyday of the week! In fact I used to like the Orions more but was soon won over that I enjoyed the NABIs more and I really dont miss the Orion Is we had. They were really falling apart!

[BusHunter]

There's a story in the Chicago Tribune about Pace's interest now in CNG technology. Apparently they were impressed by the NABI CNG bus that stopped by last month. While they were impressed, the CTA has no interest in it. I guess they'll be traveling the electric/hybrid route, as they claim they don't want to invest in the CNG facilities that would need to be installed at the garages.

[Busjack]

There's a story in the tribune about Pace's interest now in CNG technology. Apparently they were impressed by the NABI CNG bus that stopped by last month. ...

And, as I pointed out, that was pure page filler, given that Pace has an RFP for 416 diesel buses, and said in Moving Forward that the CNG Metro 45Cs would cost twice as much.

Heck, Pace still hasn't explained how in the budget, they said that Capital Bill buses had to be green, but they didn't advertise for any.

[BusHunter]

And, as I pointed out, that was pure page filler, given that Pace has an RFP for 416 diesel buses, and said in Moving Forward that the CNG Metro 45Cs would cost twice as much.

Heck, Pace still hasn't explained how in the budget, they said that Capital Bill buses had to be green, but they didn't advertise for any.

(I added a link to the story above.) Everyone is going to be looking at alternative fuels especially if these gas prices spike. Probably any new bus purchase now that is not hybrid or CNG or smaller in size like the eldos, would be folly. My best guess is perhaps, they are looking to buy eldos and maybe a small percentage CNG. That may be why we heard of them retiring '40 footers recently. In a sign of the times, I finally spotted an eldo on #290 on saturday. Eldo's and CNG's might be the wave of the future at Pace.

[Busjack]

The March Pace Minutes indicate that this was a presentation by Bill Coryell, long time sales official for NABI. Apparently he was peddling some unused LA options. At the time, LA had contracted for 260 firm with options for a total of 1000, but apparently petered out somewhere about 500. I guess one of you can report how many LA took from that contract.

[BusHunter]

The March Pace Minutes indicate that this was a presentation by Bill Coryell, long time sales official for NABI. Apparently he was peddling some unused LA options. At the time, LA had contracted for 260 firm with options for a total of 1000, but apparently petered out somewhere about 500. I guess one of you can report how many LA took from that contract.

From what i read, sounds like Mr. Coryell was peddling 100 buses not being ordered by LA due to the economy (canceled order) Whether or not he was offering the options after that was unclear to me. Seems to me the biggest obstacle at Pace is to build the CNG fueling stations at the garage. Maybe if they built a fueling station at one garage and kept those 100 there as somewhat of an experimental phase (to see if the long term effects were worth it) then this might be worth the investment.

[Busjack]

... Maybe if they built a fueling station at one garage and kept those 100 there as somewhat of an experimental phase (to see if the long term effects were worth it) then this might be worth the investment.

Whatever the scope of the offer, given the 100 buses you mentioned, the only garages that would be close to eligible would be South and West, and I really doubt that Pace would want to run an experiment in those divisions. (One could argue that NW might be eligible, except for the 26 Eldos there).

If one wants to really dissect what Coryell said, while the 45 foot bus may be capital cost competitive per passenger capacity, Pace doesn't have that kind of passenger load, except in South.

[BusHunter]

Whatever the scope of the offer, given the 100 buses you mentioned, the only garages that would be close to eligible would be South and West, and I really doubt that Pace would want to run an experiment in those divisions. (One could argue that NW might be eligible, except for the 26 Eldos there).

If one wants to really dissect what Coryell said, while the 45 foot bus may be capital cost competitive per passenger capacity, Pace doesn't have that kind of passenger load, except in South.

Then they also have a matter of putting all their eggs in one basket. If they have a massive failure or malfunction at the one garage that garage couldn't get any equipment out. Really the best solution is go with two different garages 50 a piece or just take them up on a real small order (under 20) until they work out all the kinks that may arise.

[artthouwill]

Then they also have a matter of putting all their eggs in one basket. If they have a massive failure or malfunction at the one garage that garage couldn't get any equipment out. Really the best solution is go with two different garages 50 a piece or just take them up on a real small order (under 20) until they work out all the kinks that may arise.

I don't know if Pace even has the money for the buses, let alone the money to build ONE CNG "gas" station. Would it even be worth the cost to build one for 20 buses?

Have these buses that NABI are trying to sell been built already?

[Busjack]

Have these buses that NABI are trying to sell been built already?

The CTA/140 New Flyer episode makes me cautious to venture again, but from:

They intended to buy another 100 buses but due to the economy they have cancelled that order. This leaves an empty spot in NABI's production line and a chance for another transit company to place an order.

it appears that NABI is selling production capacity, not actual buses, sort of similar to what New Flyer did with Ottawa after the CTA deal fell through.

Also, the Pace secretary seems pretty thorough.

[BusHunter]

I don't know if Pace even has the money for the buses, let alone the money to build ONE CNG "gas" station. Would it even be worth the cost to build one for 20 buses?

Have these buses that NABI are trying to sell been built already?

Is it worth it? It does require more infrastructure than just a plug in hybrid like CTA has. LA claims there is a cost savings, although it may not be alot right away, (costs savings seem to build over time) but if you look down the road at Pace's future, there going to have to address the 40 foot situation shortly with the #6000's getting older and a few years away from retirement and the few #2400's that are even sooner in scrapping. There's also the issue of gas prices that will most likely drive the industry into alternative fuels/hybrid vehicles. So if they don't jump at this, they'll most likely be looking in a similar direction whether it be hybrid or smaller buses that don't use as much fuel. Have the CNG buses been built already? Probably not, but there may be parts shipments somewhere in the pipeline. I think that's one of the reasons there trying to deal them off. With previous purchasers being only LA and Phoenix, they may be somewhat worried they will get stuck with what ever has been ordered so far. Whomever gets these buses may get a good deal on the price also, if you figure that LA locked in the price with the signing of there contract or if NABI feels it can't sell the inventory. So they could have that to think of as well.

[Busjack]

I'll believe it when Pace takes down this requisition and substitutes another

Of course, we have someone who knows how many parts are in the pipeline based on his daily commutes on the Tollway to Kapsosvar.

Also, there was that NABI guy who demonstrated the 42BRT and 62BRT to Pace a couple of years ago. I haven't seen any of these yet, either.

[Busjack]

From the NABI announcement that it has transferred all steel bus fabrication to Alabama, the Compobus or Metro 45C is again defunct.