Pace Roster

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

41 minutes ago, jtrussel said:

That looks repairable from the angle that pic was taken. I guess pace didn't want to put up the expense to fix

If you are able to zoom in, the fire damage has made a mark on the top of the rear end and appears to have destroyed the right side of the bus which appears to have been more severe than the angle of the bus seen in the picture. There’s also a burn scar next to the rear fleet number.

[jtrussel]

11 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

If you are able to zoom in, the fire damage has made a mark on the top of the rear end and appears to have destroyed the right side of the bus which appears to have been more severe than the angle of the bus seen in the picture. There’s also a burn scar next to the rear fleet number.

Yeah you are right. I just glanced and thought all it would take is a end cap replacement along with whatever was damaged. So total loss it is to pace

 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

48 minutes ago, jtrussel said:

Yeah you are right. I just glanced and thought all it would take is a end cap replacement along with whatever was damaged. So total loss it is to pace

 

Yep and unfortunately that bus didn’t make it to 6 years in service if it burnt in 2021. This was the first photo where I actually saw what the fire damage did to it.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6368 often don’t show up on the map and is a frequent ghost bus. This bus was running ahead of schedule and now I have to wait thirty minutes for the next bus. The bus tracker is an essential tool especially for when it gets super cold just like tonight when it’s below zero. It sure is a problem that needs to be addressed that pace does not want to spend their time doing. 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

On 2/12/2025 at 6:52 AM, rotjohns said:

So either 2611 was a loaner or if it is permanent, that makes 9 buses at MV Batavia.  Currently, only 711 and 715 run routes from there.  715 runs 3 buses/day while 711 runs anywhere from 1-3 buses depending on time of day.  Seems odd to ultimately have 3 spares there unless either there's a bus in worse shape than realized or something bigger is brewing that requires more buses.  

Looks like 2611 appears to be permanent for now, MV Batavia has only 6 active buses right now, and 3 more are OOS, so when they are not using one of the five regular buses they will use 2611 to make up for it.

[rotjohns]

16 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Looks like 2611 appears to be permanent for now, MV Batavia has only 6 active buses right now, and 3 more are OOS, so when they are not using one of the five regular buses they will use 2611 to make up for it.

Funny thing is, I physically saw 2812 the other day.  Hadn't seen that bus in months, at least not on 715.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

13 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Funny thing is, I physically saw 2812 the other day.  Hadn't seen that bus in months, at least not on 715.

2812 has been OOS since the middle of last year up until a couple weeks ago. I wonder if the 12401-12402 buses are still at MV.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6378 is now back in service .

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

On 11/22/2024 at 11:39 AM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

2659 is tracking as 2651 out of River.

As of now, 2659 does not show up on the map and 2651 is tracking as the correct number.

[Adam Hubbard]

When Will Pace will completely retire the ENTIRE ENC EZ-Rider II 2600-2829 fleet roster? 2030 or beyond?

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Adam Hubbard said:

When Will Pace will completely retire the ENTIRE ENC EZ-Rider II 2600-2829 fleet roster? 2030 or beyond?

 

No one has any means of knowing. The obvious issue is that while the R ones will be replaced by the 35' Gilligs probably in a year, and they probably aren't necessary at NW and SW, what does Pace intend to do about places like Niles, Highland Park, and Central Du Page (711 and 715; MV)? Not to mention the few leftovers at FV and H, and the Schaumburg trolleys, which, at the rate they are being used, should be good until 2050 🤭.

I'm sure this all got confounded by the messes in the electric bus manufacturing business, as well as the decline of the 30' bus business, not to mention the disappearance of 30' electric buses. Well, there's still ARBOC (but its website no longer mentions the Equess CHARGE).

[MetroShadow]

I didn't realize the OTR coaches are up high on the roster list.

6981 was on 855 yesterday.

[artthouwill]

On 5/28/2025 at 5:28 PM, MetroShadow said:

I didn't realize the OTR coaches are up high on the roster list.

6981 was on 855 yesterday.

It amazes me that Pace will stretch the 12 year useful life of it's transit buses up to nearly 20 years, but the OTRs which are built in last 20 years or more are only kept for 12 years.  

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It amazes me that Pace will stretch the 12 year useful life of it's transit buses up to nearly 20 years, but the OTRs which are built in last 20 years or more are only kept for 12 years.  

Both are rated at 12 years. From the pdf of the Altoona Report: "Motor Coach Industries Inc. submitted a model D4000 N, diesel-powered 50 seat (including the driver) 40-foot bus, for a 12 yr/500,000 mile STURAA test."

Similarly, while CTA has kept buses for 20 years, Pace usually has not. For instance the Orion VIs were 2001-2004, and the NABIs were 2003 and 2005. They were completely replaced by 2012/13 to 2018 ENC Axess.* You can't get much closer than that. The 2007 EZ Riders were on the way out with the 20300s. A lot of the contractor ones were scrapped without replacement. What's holding up replacements now is indecision about electrics and inability to get PhoenixEV to deliver them, but Pace got "off the pot" by ordering the Gilligs. But the original plan was to buy 95 CNGs, with only the 20 Pulse ones as fleet expansion, but that and the Wheeling Garage project were secretly "deep sixed."

In short, you're wrong on both fronts.

------

*Edit: A few stragglers by 20400s.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

Both are rated at 12 years. From the pdf of the Altoona Report: "Motor Coach Industries Inc. submitted a model D4000 N, diesel-powered 50 seat (including the driver) 40-foot bus, for a 12 yr/500,000 mile STURAA test."

Similarly, while CTA has kept buses for 20 years, Pace usually has not. For instance the Orion VIs were 2001-2004, and the NABIs were 2003 and 2005. They were completely replaced by 2012/13 to 2018 ENC Axess.* You can't get much closer than that. The 2007 EZ Riders were on the way out with the 20300s. A lot of the contractor ones were scrapped without replacement. What's holding up replacements now is indecision about electrics and inability to get PhoenixEV to deliver them, but Pace got "off the pot" by ordering the Gilligs. But the original plan was to buy 95 CNGs, with only the 20 Pulse ones as fleet expansion, but that and the Wheeling Garage project were secretly "deep sixed."

In short, you're wrong on both fronts.

------

*Edit: A few stragglers by 20400s.

More than a few stragglers.  When the 20400s first started to arrive, Pace West was nearly a 50/50 mix of NABIs ( mostly 2005 but some 2003s from South) and 6323s (6323 - 6374, 6559 - 6563, and 6783 - 6784).  The 65xx and 67xxs returned to their original garages once the NABIs dwindled.  

Pace South didn't lose their 2003 NAVIs until the 17500s arrived in 2017 with a number of them going to Pace West.  Some of them were among the last to be retired.   Therefore I wasn't wrong with my post and neither was I wrong about the OTRs being retired in 12 years.   I know what the FTA useful life is for coaches, but they can withstand  running much longer than transits.  Greyhound consistently runs their OTRs 20 years, especially the MCIs.  Pace only runs theirs Monday through Friday rush periods only with no weekends or holidays. 

[jtrussel]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

More than a few stragglers.  When the 20400s first started to arrive, Pace West was nearly a 50/50 mix of NABIs ( mostly 2005 but some 2003s from South) and 6323s (6323 - 6374, 6559 - 6563, and 6783 - 6784).  The 65xx and 67xxs returned to their original garages once the NABIs dwindled.  

Pace South didn't lose their 2003 NAVIs until the 17500s arrived in 2017 with a number of them going to Pace West.  Some of them were among the last to be retired.   Therefore I wasn't wrong with my post and neither was I wrong about the OTRs being retired in 12 years.   I know what the FTA useful life is for coaches, but they can withstand  running much longer than transits.  Greyhound consistently runs their OTRs 20 years, especially the MCIs.  Pace only runs theirs Monday through Friday rush periods only with no weekends or holidays. 

Do the motor coaches get sold at the end of their 12 yrs? I have seen pics of retired pace busses in the bone yard but never paces otr coaches. I would love to buy one

 

[artthouwill]

48 minutes ago, jtrussel said:

Do the motor coaches get sold at the end of their 12 yrs? I have seen pics of retired pace busses in the bone yard but never paces otr coaches. I would love to buy one

 

That's a good question.   It may depend on how they acquired the buses.  I think some buses in the past were leased.   Those would go back to the company that Pace leased from.  As for buses they purchased, unless another transit agency purchases them, I would think that they too would be sold for scrap.  No one really wants or needs used OTRS with bo lavatories.  

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 Therefore I wasn't wrong with my post

Yes, you were. The vast majority was within 12-14 years, and virtually none were 20 years. The 2025 Final Budget has:

NO 40' bus over 11 years About 80 of these buses to be replaced by Gilligs within about a year.

 

 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, jtrussel said:

Do the motor coaches get sold at the end of their 12 yrs? I have seen pics of retired pace busses in the bone yard but never paces otr coaches. I would love to buy one

 

Some of the 6900-6907s were in the boneyard. Pace has to advertise all buses for sale. That's like what @artthouwill indicated. Historically, someone (like Private Transportation in Brooklyn) bought a few Pace buses for use, but, as has been noted frequently in this forum, Adelman's was the only bidder for low mileage about 16 year old 2600s, meaning they were all scrap.

If you want to buy one, look for the contract opportunity, but be prepared to tow it away, as Pace won't let you drive it off its property.

[artthouwill]

19 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Yes, you were. The vast majority was within 12-14 years, and virtually none were 20 years. The 2025 Final Budget has:

NO 40' bus over 11 years About 80 of these buses to be replaced by Gilligs within about a year.

 

 

I live in Pace West territory and actually RODE these buses.  You can't tell me that some 2003 NABI  vuses weren't in service in 2020 prior to the delivery of the 20400s.   Though there were a lot of them that weren't used or running,  there were some still in service,  meaning the series isn't retired.  Kudos to Pace if they can get West's 6323s retired within the next year or two.    Pace is motivated to get to zero emissions  either with electrics or alternative fuels. To that end they are doing better than CTA.   

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

You can't tell me that some 2003 NABI  vuses weren't in service in 2020 prior to the delivery of the 20400s.

I might have underestimated the effect of the 20400s, but "some' 17 year old buses is not a policy or practice of keeping 20-year-old buses. The 2020 Budget says 16 2003s and 56 2005s, or 72 buses, but they were not 20 years old:

The ages of Pace buses are documented in each Pace budget, and I buy that over your suppositions. I suggest you click on them.

[Busjack]

I'll add to the above that 16 2003s out of original 184 (6162-6262 x13, 6600-6684 x13)  or 8.6% might be "some" 17 year olds, but I would characterize it as de minimis or stragglers. 56 out of 60 2005s lasting 15 years is more predictable, but if there were a policy of keeping them for 20 years, they would still be around.