(Not) Rail Service Alerts

[jtrosario]

This thread is for conversations about Rail Service Alerts.

Please feel free to post non-relevant comments about current alerts, historical information about similiar events to current rail service alerts, historical comparison pictures to a current service alert, detailed explanations of historical events, snappy comebacks, requests to reply or not reply to one another, respectful arguments with each other, open non-relevant questions of others viewpoints, and/or 25+ replies about an alert event over a weeks period of time even after service was restored so that the "Rail Service Alerts" Thread can actually be used for Minor Delays, Significant Delays and Service Disruptions as well as relevant comments about current Rail Service Alerts.

Please do not feel free to swear at each other, complain about each other, personally attack each other, nitpick, accuse, and/or insult each other for common decency's sake and as per ChicagoBus.org Transit Forums community guidelines:

"Act appropriately. Members should demonstrate a professional demeanor and respect others. Personal attacks are not acceptable."

Thank you for your consideration.

[sw4400]

This thread is for conversations about Rail Service Alerts.

Please feel free to post non-relevant comments about current alerts, historical information about similiar events to current rail service alerts, historical comparison pictures to a current service alert, detailed explanations of historical events, snappy comebacks, requests to reply or not reply to one another, respectful arguments with each other, open non-relevant questions of others viewpoints, and/or 25+ replies about an alert event over a weeks period of time even after service was restored so that the "Rail Service Alerts" Thread can actually be used for Minor Delays, Significant Delays and Service Disruptions as well as relevant comments about current Rail Service Alerts.

Please do not feel free to swear at each other, complain about each other, personally attack each other, nitpick, accuse, and/or insult each other for common decency's sake and as per ChicagoBus.org Transit Forums community guidelines:

"Act appropriately. Members should demonstrate a professional demeanor and respect others. Personal attacks are not acceptable."

Thank you for your consideration.

Well, as the creator of the "Rail Service Alerts" thread, thank you for making this thread. Unfortunately, I highlighted a few points that you're probably just wasting your time discussing about...

-snappy comebacks: This will, unfortunately always be the case with this forum as some members just start something that unfortunately starts the snappy comebacks.

-requests to reply or not reply to one another: There shouldn't be any requests from anyone to say "John, I need you to respond to this ASAP!!!", but again, some individuals just want to force an issue to start something with someone.

-respectful arguments: If there is such a thing as respectful arguements on here, I'll throw my hat into the Presidency!!! I've yet to see a respectful arguement. Maybe there are some examples, but they are rare...

-open non-relevant questions of others viewpoints: This is unfortunately a common happening on this forum... one individual who shall remain anonymous does this all too often. This leads to a lot of the stuff mentioned above, except the respectful arguements. I'll be the first to admit I've broken some of these points in posts in the past due to said anonymous member who starts open, non-relevant questions of others viewpoints. The said anonymous individual has also done this with other board members as well...

-complain about each other, personally attack each other, nitpick, accuse, and/or insult each other for common decency's sake and as per ChicagoBus.org Transit Forums community guidelines: This has been going on for a long time around here. I succumbed to it, mostly because of a certain anonymous individual who has attacked me for mentioning my opinion or thoughts about something that I saw in a thread topic or something I started when I noticed something online or in person going on with the CTA.

But I do appreciate this thread, and if you must post non-relevant topics about Rail Service Alerts that don't pertain to the particular alert... like example below...

6/25/12 1:25a

***Test Alert... Not An Actual Alert***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Red Line

Service Interruption Severity: Service Disruption

Description Of Interruption(s): Service halted due to zombies near Chicago and a medical emergency on a Red Line train near Grand.

Then post in this thread. In this example, any following posts in the Rail Service Alerts topic should be about the zombies near the Chicago Ave. station on the Red Line, not about a passenger puking because of a medical emergency(example of the anonymous poster who opens non-relevant posts regarding the alert mentioned).

[MetroShadow]

6/25/12 1:25a

***Test Alert... Not An Actual Alert***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Red Line

Service Interruption Severity: Service Disruption

Description Of Interruption(s): Service halted due to zombies near Chicago and a medical emergency on a Red Line train near Grand.

Then post in this thread. In this example, any following posts in the Rail Service Alerts topic should be about the zombies near the Chicago Ave. station on the Red Line, not about a passenger puking because of a medical emergency(example of the anonymous poster who opens non-relevant posts regarding the alert mentioned).

...and I had a snappy comeback for this [but I forgot]...

[Busjack]

More interesting is a point someone made on the CTA Tattler that the one at Granville would not have happened if the track trip was working.

However, to get to your point, Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga better stay away from the subway. Especially after eating at Subway.

[Busjack]

Major Delays on the Brown, Green, Purple, Pink, and Orange Lines:

A train fell on the Geico Gecko at Lake and Wabash, causing a medical emergency and auto insurance rates to rise.

[Busjack]

10/10/12 1:07p

Upcoming Alert for 10/12 @ 10p, 10/13, 10/14 and early morning 10/15/12

***Loop-Renewal Rail Alerts***

Rail Line(s) Affected: Brown, Orange, Pink, Green

Service Interruption Severity: Planned Reroute for Loop-Renewal Project...

Actually, due to the completion of the Monroe and Franklin subway projects in 1979, these alerts are unnecessary and have been rescinded.

[chicagopcclcar]

Talking about basic thought, as the above quote from my post indicated, I was going back to 59th. You didn't answer that.

But as far as Granville, based on the Tribune article, you explain to us:

• Was the operator sent on the correct routing when the southbound train crossed onto the northbound track? The indication from the article is that the operator at some point realized that she shouldn't have taken the crossover.
• If 15 out of 16 trucks got over, and according to CTA Spokesgoddess Tammy Chase, there wasn't a derailment because the wheels never lost contact with the rails, why did the 16th not clear the crossover? Since it was characterized as a " a 'split switch issue,'' what split the switch after 7/8ths of the train cleared it?
• What does that imply? That the switch was moved after the train partially cleared it.

In any event, you made it clear that it is irrelevant what it implies to me. What you should be explaining for both incidents is how they could have happened, given the cab and wayside signals, and supposedly fail safe trips on the approaches to the switches.

Or it it just that CTA train operators don't exercise basic thought, and periodically run through open and split switches, despite the above? Claiming to have been one, you should know one way or the other.

But please, read and comprehend the post before hitting Reply.

From what I understand I should move my response here.

The CTA is having a number of events where one truck goes one way and another truck goes another way. The usual cause is worn switch parts or a set of wheels out of gauge. And lets not argue whether its gage or gauge. If the movable point rails are worn, the flange of the wheel can force its way over the point rail. This happens usually back in the train consist although it can happen with the very first truck. This Granville incident, and a bunch of others: one at Clark Tower, the charter at 14th middle track all look like this. The two bigger 59th St. incidents didn't include this.

When we went through the Granville interlocking last weekend, the entire operation was manual, flagmen were posted at both ends. There was about 200 feet of single tracking where both NB and SB trains were using the #3 NB track. The signals were not displaying and the track trips were tied down. In other words, operation through this single-tracking was entirely manual. One of the personnel was probably designated the coordinator or pilot, except they didn't ride trains through the single track portion because it was so short. I have listened as trackside personnel coordinated by radio with the Red line controller. A current rulebook would be needed to make proper determination of responsibilities. None of this had anything to do with the truck that went wrong.

I don't know where the Tribune gets its information from so I cannot respond to their article. There seems to be no evidence of any wrong route taken. DH

[sw4400]

Actually, due to the completion of the Monroe and Franklin subway projects in 1979, these alerts are unnecessary and have been rescinded.

[sw4400]

From what I understand I should move my response here.

The CTA is having a number of events where one truck goes one way and another truck goes another way. The usual cause is worn switch parts or a set of wheels out of gauge. And lets not argue whether its gage or gauge. If the movable point rails are worn, the flange of the wheel can force its way over the point rail. This happens usually back in the train consist although it can happen with the very first truck. This Granville incident, and a bunch of others: one at Clark Tower, the charter at 14th middle track all look like this. The two bigger 59th St. incidents didn't include this.

When we went through the Granville interlocking last weekend, the entire operation was manual, flagmen were posted at both ends. There was about 200 feet of single tracking where both NB and SB trains were using the #3 NB track. The signals were not displaying and the track trips were tied down. In other words, operation through this single-tracking was entirely manual. One of the personnel was probably designated the coordinator or pilot, except they didn't ride trains through the single track portion because it was so short. I have listened as trackside personnel coordinated by radio with the Red line controller. A current rulebook would be needed to make proper determination of responsibilities. None of this had anything to do with the truck that went wrong.

I don't know where the Tribune gets its information from so I cannot respond to their article. There seems to be no evidence of any wrong route taken. DH

chicagopcclcar, thank you for being the bigger poster here... disagreements come and go, but you took the high road here with those simple words in your post. Thank you for that, and thank you for moving the discussion here!!! :)

[Railwaymodeler]

From what I understand I should move my response here.

The CTA is having a number of events where one truck goes one way and another truck goes another way. The usual cause is worn switch parts or a set of wheels out of gauge. And lets not argue whether its gage or gauge. If the movable point rails are worn, the flange of the wheel can force its way over the point rail. This happens usually back in the train consist although it can happen with the very first truck. This Granville incident, and a bunch of others: one at Clark Tower, the charter at 14th middle track all look like this. The two bigger 59th St. incidents didn't include this.

When we went through the Granville interlocking last weekend, the entire operation was manual, flagmen were posted at both ends. There was about 200 feet of single tracking where both NB and SB trains were using the #3 NB track. The signals were not displaying and the track trips were tied down. In other words, operation through this single-tracking was entirely manual. One of the personnel was probably designated the coordinator or pilot, except they didn't ride trains through the single track portion because it was so short. I have listened as trackside personnel coordinated by radio with the Red line controller. A current rulebook would be needed to make proper determination of responsibilities. None of this had anything to do with the truck that went wrong.

I don't know where the Tribune gets its information from so I cannot respond to their article. There seems to be no evidence of any wrong route taken. DH

The CTA's point picking problem sounds like something out of model railroading. Wonder if the NMRA will make a 1:1 scale track gauge?:lol:

[Busjack]

From what I understand I should move my response here. ...

I don't know where the Tribune gets its information from so I cannot respond to their article. There seems to be no evidence of any wrong route taken. DH

I guess you didn't read my later post saying that I already had an answer. And as far as evidence about the wrong route, why all the reports that the operator tried to back up? It appears that Greenovered has the answer to that.

When we went through the Granville interlocking last weekend, the entire operation was manual, flagmen were posted at both ends. There was about 200 feet of single tracking where both NB and SB trains were using the #3 NB track. The signals were not displaying and the track trips were tied down. In other words, operation through this single-tracking was entirely manual. One of the personnel was probably designated the coordinator or pilot, except they didn't ride trains through the single track portion because it was so short. I have listened as trackside personnel coordinated by radio with the Red line controller. A current rulebook would be needed to make proper determination of responsibilities. None of this had anything to do with the truck that went wrong.

This certainly contradicts your prior post that the railfan trip went through the switch and it "had nothing to do with signals zero, O, ought, nothing." Unless there is evidence that the operator also ignored a flagman, the above certainly indicates that after whatever happened, CTA does not trust the signals there.

[chicagopcclcar]

I guess you didn't read my later post saying that I already had an answer. And as far as evidence about the wrong route, why all the reports that the operator tried to back up? It appears that Greenovered has the answer to that.

For the record, I appreciate your showing interest and following up, so that is why I try my best to answer you. I don't know why people talk about "wrong route." I guess that is their inexperience. There was no "wrong route" anywhere. There was a "Planned reroute" whereby SB trains would operate over the NB track. Maybe that's what confused the ill-informed.

Firts of all trains "do not back up." That is prohibited by every rulebook in existance. Trains make reverse moves....that is with an operator at the headend of the move. Your "red over red or is it green over red" poster said that. You didn't learn from him???? We're writing this stuff for you to pick up. A reverse move is the common way to properly get the consist back on the same track in incidents where one truck went one way and another truck went a different way. I hope the operator didn't institute such a move on his own without getting control's approval and onsite supervision. I even saw a piece of the reverse move during one of the news media helicopter overhead views so hopefully some time ensued before the move allowing supervisors on the scene.

This certainly contradicts your prior post that the railfan trip went through the switch and it "had nothing to do with signals zero, O, ought, nothing." Unless there is evidence that the operator also ignored a flagman, the above certainly indicates that after whatever happened, CTA does not trust the signals there.

How do you reach that conclusion...there is no contradiction. The signals were turned off, the trips were tied down. Like I said...no influence on the incident. The CTA chose to run the reroute MANUALLY. Plus the signals and track trips affect the head car, not the last car.

As far as trust, where do you dream up these situations. The CTA could have operated the interlocking manually, like they did, or could have used a towerman. Even if they used a towerman, they still would have to use the manual crew members, so no savings in manpower or costs. The CTA chose how they wanted to run the single tracking and switching. They had two choices, either works. Neither would have prevented the last truck from going the wrong way. I can't make this any simpler.

Finally, about the "blab, blab." I was watching the TV commercial about Universe TV. Its nothing against your "green over red" poster...he gave a lot of good, correct information, but most of it had nothing to do with what happened at Granville. All the above typed in Cleveland in a parking lot in respect to your interest. Now I'm going into the trade show. I hope you appreciate the detail.

DH

[Busjack]

How do you reach that conclusion...there is no contradiction. The signals were turned off, the trips were tied down. Like I said...no influence on the incident. The CTA chose to run the reroute MANUALLY. Plus the signals and track trips affect the head car, not the last car.

How do you get the inference that the switch being operated manually several days later means that it was operating manually at the time of the incident??*

Like I said above, unless you have proof that the operator also disregarded a flagman at the time of the incident, you are making up scenarios.

________________

*Especially since it was reported at the time, and you can go up the original thread on this, that the YELLOW LINE was shut down because of the incident. Explain that.

I think you are still bluffing.

[See Tea Eh]

Okay, Busjack, since you're the expert and you apparently know what happened (since you obviously know so much about railroading), why don't you tell us what happened?

Send a copy of your report to the CTA, while you're at it, so they can save any time and money that might be associated with investigating the incident.

[Busjack]

Okay, Busjack, since you're the expert and you apparently know what happened (since you obviously know so much about railroading), why don't you tell us what happened?

Send a copy of your report to the CTA, while you're at it, so they can save any time and money that might be associated with investigating the incident.

So, I see that you and David are in the same boat.

I claim only to have:

• read the Tribune article
• heard the radio reports
• conversed with someone at the CTA Tattler, who made a post that makes sense.

Since David claims to know what happened, but engaged in "what does this imply," "BLAH BLAH BLAH" and "there was nothing wrong with the switch," WHY DOESN'T HE DO WHAT YOU ASK? Why didn't you ask HIM to do it? Yet he replies with stuff like "I don't know where the Tribune got its information." The Tribune said where it did.

Other than that, the others are right that you two ex-CTA employees are only engaged in a violation of the Community Guidelines.

[chicagopcclcar]

So, I see that you and David are in the same boat.

I claim only to have:

• read the Tribune article
• heard the radio reports
• conversed with someone at the CTA Tattler, who made a post that makes sense.

Since David claims to know what happened, but engaged in "what does this imply," "BLAH BLAH BLAH" and "there was nothing wrong with the switch," WHY DOESN'T HE DO WHAT YOU ASK? Why didn't you ask HIM to do it? Yet he replies with stuff like "I don't know where the Tribune got its information." The Tribune said where it did.

Other than that, the others are right that you two ex-CTA employees are only engaged in a violation of the Community Guidelines.

Well one thing I know...I know more than you do about the CTA rail operations, despite your 7,000 plus posts on this forum and if you continue to be guided by " Tribune article's and hearing the radio reports " you will know LESS as time goes on for both are unrealiable sources. The " someone at the CTA Tattler," does have a lot of correct information.

Please summarize just what are you trying to assert that happened or what are you trying to prove.

DH

[Busjack]

Please summarize just what are you trying to assert that happened or what are you trying to prove.

As I suggested, above, no, YOU DO IT. Don't rely on the types of assertions you made, or "what things imply," and, btw, apologize to jajuan

I told you that I was satisfied with greenovered's response, and that should be the end of "what I believe."

[See Tea Eh]

Greenovered's response had a lot of "ifs" in it. Does that mean that you believe every hypothetical he presented was what actually occurred?

In fact, he mentioned several things that "could have" contributed to the incident. Which of those (if any) do you believe actually did?

[chicagopcclcar]

I told you that I was satisfied with greenovered's response, and that should be the end of "what I believe."

Good, have a nice day.

DH

[Busjack]

Greenovered's response had a lot of "ifs" in it. Does that mean that you believe every hypothetical he presented was what actually occurred?

In fact, he mentioned several things that "could have" contributed to the incident. Which of those (if any) do you believe actually did?

Maybe you should accept David's response.

So, unless YOU are going to tell us what happened, and I am sure you won't, that's the end of it.

Capiche?

[See Tea Eh]

Got it. The non-answer is your answer, and as you admitted in the CTA Tattler thread, you really don't understand.

[Busjack]

Got it. The non-answer is your answer, and as you admitted in the CTA Tattler thread, you really don't understand.

More than you do.

But I said earlier with regard to the 59th St. one, "I'll let the NTSB work out the details."

What makes you think I am the NTSB?

Am I going to get an answer to that one?

[See Tea Eh]

I don't think you're the NTSB (there's your answer). I think you're a fool that doesn't understand a damn thing about how railroading works, yet insist on telling others who have lots of experience in the industry that they're wrong.

And I'd gladly pit my understanding of railroad operations against yours, any day of the week.

[Busjack]

I don't think you're the NTSB (there's your answer). I think you're a fool that doesn't understand a damn thing about how railroading works, yet insist on telling others who have lots of experience in the industry that they're wrong.

And I'd gladly pit my understanding of railroad operations against yours, any day of the week.

So, why did you ask the question?

Only to violate the terms of service.

Since I won't, that's it with you. Say hi to the track inspectors in the NTSB report on the Blue Line subway derailment.

[jtrosario]

...  Trains make reverse moves....that is with an operator at the headend of the move. ...

I was appreciating the lesson on terminology yesterday, and then while riding the Yellow line yesterday around 9:40pm, our train got stuck on the Main Street crossing going towards Dempster-Skokie sometime after leaving Oakton-Skokie.

First, I was glad that we hadn't hit anyone/anything, because the operator came back to our car(2nd of 2) rather quickly, explained while walking that we would be moving in reverse briefly, and then moved the train forward from the 2nd car(reverse from our previous direction on that track). Afterward, he walked back to the first car when we should have moved forward.

And again he came back quickly to the second car, with a certain look on his face, then quickly back to the first car with what I thought was a (rather large) key in his left hand. Upon his going back to the first car the second time, my wife and I burst out laughing, wondering if he had forgotten the key to get back into the operator's compartment up front the first time.