Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[jajuan]

What am I looking at here with the transactions marked "CTA Back Office"... one for $5.00 and one for $0.00??? I was at work when those went through. I still have my $5.00 credit, but that mystifies me. Was this something to do with when I first registered, because I got the $5.00 credit same day.

Your beginning transit value balance and then Ventra crediting the $5.00 fee back to your card as a transit value after you completed the registration. As I was explaining with my card above, the additional $5.00 credit on your card makes it the equivalent of you having a $5.00 transit card and 7-Day pass but now that you have Ventra, all on one card. You can use the $5.00 after your 7-Day pass is used down or it could be something to have in reserve for a friend or relative in addition to your pass that's loaded.

[jajuan]

If you go to the CTA Tattler, it appears that the bigger stink is getting the card in the mail and figuring out what your access code is, without which you don't get further. Also, apparently a user needs a web enabled device to get an access code before one can call the 800 number to activate the card, or gets put on interminable hold, according to Kevin O'Neil.

As I said a couple of days ago, what is going to be the next confusing mess to blame on the customers?

The access code I just made up when I registered the card. It had to be four digits long.

[Busjack]

Your beginning transit value balance and then Ventra crediting the $5.00 fee back to your card as a transit value after you completed the registration. As I was explaining with my card above, the additional $5.00 credit on your card makes it the equivalent of you having a $5.00 transit card and 7-Day pass but now that you have Ventra, all on one card. You can use the $5.00 after your 7-Day pass is used down or it could be something to have in reserve for a friend or relative in addition to your pass that's loaded.

I don't think that answers sw's question.

He seemed satisfied that he got the credit. What he was questioning were all the bogus $0.00 transactions, not that they were costing him anything.

However, your answer also seems to imply that the $5.00 can't be applied to next week's or month's pass, in which it is something that either has to be spent or gets forfeited in 18 months through the dormancy charge. I suppose that there is a third possible result.

[jajuan]

I don't think that answers sw's question.

He seemed satisfied that he got the credit. What he was questioning were all the bogus $0.00 transactions, not that they were costing him anything.

However, your answer also seems to imply that the $5.00 can't be applied to next week's or month's pass, in which it is something that either has to be spent or gets forfeited in 18 months through the dormancy charge. I suppose that there is a third possible result.

Actually I think it can be applied to another pass if he so chooses. The Ventra site gives the option to use any stored transit value, your bank account or a credit card to pay for unlimited ride pass loads. He can look at the Back office line item of $0.00 the way I suggested above or just look at it as a dummy item to show how the Ventra computers were communicating to process his $5.00 credit. However he looks at it, that's all it is their computer system processing the refund of the fee to his card as a transit value.

[jajuan]

This is the dumbest of the dumb Ventra issues. The letter that came with my card issued the same exact edict about logging in to the website first to set my access code before calling to activate the card. I'm sorry that so many seem to have issues following basic instructions...

Yeah I figured out that they were asking me to set the access code, much the same way they were asking me to choose a password when I did the registration online. Though the access code thing they could have left as optional since a large number of folks won't be using these cards as debit cards. At least I know I won't be.

[sw4400]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

[MarioM]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

As I understand it, the pass that is in queue will activate the first time either of the following happens:

1) You ride a Pace bus.

2) You ride CTA or Pace after the other 7-day pass expires.

That does mean that if you ride a Pace bus between now and the 19th, you

will have two passes running at the same time. Since the system can't

charge the CTA-only pass for a Pace fare, it's going to look for a

Pace-eligible payment form. It looks for passes before transit value,

so that will cause the second pass to activate.

Otherwise, if you ride only CTA between now and the 19th, the second pass will

activate the next time you ride anything after the first pass expires

on the 19th. Passes are only supposed to activate the first time you use them, not when your other pass expires.

And I have never personally tried this and can't guarantee it will work the

way it is advertised. Please let us know how it works out for you.

[jajuan]

Got another question that hopefully can be answered by members on the forum here...

-I purchased a CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass on my Ventra Card today as I am going out of town to a area that has PACE service for half of the weekend, and also since my 7-Day CTA Pass expires on the 19th and this multi-system pass allows use on both PACE and CTA, I can use it for either. Anyhow, upon checking my account, it mentions the CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass as "In Queue". What does that mean? Does that mean that come the 19th my CTA 7-Day Pass will expire and this CTA/PACE 7-Day Pass will begin on the 19th and run until the 25th?

It's pretty much what MarioM just said. Your CTA/Pace 7-Day pass won't activate until you either tap it on a bus or train after the CTA only pass expires or if you tap it on whichever Pace bus you're going to ride if the CTA pass hasn't expired yet. In queue means it's available and ready for use for whichever scenario mentioned comes. Hopefully you don't have to go out of town on your trip until after the CTA pass expires on Thursday or else you will have two passes active simultaneously since the CTA/Pace combination 7-day will activate if you tap it on a Pace bus while the CTA one is still active yet invalid on Pace, and Ventra readers are indeed programmed to look for a valid fare medium stored on your card to pay your fare. But as long as your trip is after the expiration date and time of the CTA 7-Day pass, you should be fine and good to go. Your CTA pass will just expire on Thursday and the other pass will just activate at the moment you first tap on a bus or train after that first pass expires.

[Busjack]

If one wants to go into what Ventra actually means for fares, look at the August Pace Minutes, indicating such things as the need to invent a 30 day Premium (BOS) Pass, or a transfer policy that allows free transfers between small city routes, and whether they want to sign onto Ventra tickets with the 50 cent surcharge.

Note also that that they said that bank cards are for full fare, but not that they wouldn't come with transfers.

In any event, the thought of a universal fare system* is even less furthered by Ventra.

______

*In the sense suggested by BusHunter when he questioned having both a 7 Day CTA and 7 Day CTA/Pace pass.

[BusHunter]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

[Busjack]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

On the first, the question is whether one chooses an automatic Ventra option. One would have to compare that to how Chicago Cards and Chicago Card Pluses are reloaded, except I suppose one could say that there is transit value on a Ventra card that could be converted to a pass. I doubt, though, without explicitly buying a pass, but sw could tell us about his experience.

On the latter, cash fares are still to be accepted on buses (note my prior comment that I might as well drop 9 quarters than let it read my bank card), but since they are not now accepted on the L, you would need a Ventra Card or the $3 Ventra Ticket to get through the turnstile.

There were the reports about negative balances on student Ventra cards, but if the card is not linked to your checking account, I don't see how Ventra gets a chargeback, other than saying you have no value after you put in $2 the next time you reload at a vending machine or Jewel terminal.

[jajuan]

If one wants to go into what Ventra actually means for fares, look at the August Pace Minutes, indicating such things as the need to invent a 30 day Premium (BOS) Pass, or a transfer policy that allows free transfers between small city routes, and whether they want to sign onto Ventra tickets with the 50 cent surcharge.

Note also that that they said that bank cards are for full fare, but not that they wouldn't come with transfers.

In any event, the thought of a universal fare system* is even less furthered by Ventra.

______

*In the sense suggested by BusHunter when he questioned having both a 7 Day CTA and 7 Day CTA/Pace pass.

As I understood the minutes, the new pass category they were considering were for 755, 855 and the other Pace routes "that go to other popular attractions" which I read to be Wrigley Field expresses, Soldier Field expresses, etc. The 755 and 855 are premium fares and the sports field, Great America, etc express routes are also otherwise more than regular standard fares, so it sounds like they're trying to come up with an answer for those routes to accommodate transitioning over to Ventra. The other issue it sounded like they were trying to answer were how to accommodate the current fare structure of on some routes there is what Pace calls a local fare with free transfers between routes in adjacent cities in the local fare zone.

On the first, the question is whether one chooses an automatic Ventra option. One would have to compare that to how Chicago Cards and Chicago Card Pluses are reloaded, except I suppose one could say that there is transit value on a Ventra card that could be converted to a pass. I doubt, though, without explicitly buying a pass, but sw could tell us about his experience.

On the latter, cash fares are still to be accepted on buses (note my prior comment that I might as well drop 9 quarters than let it read my bank card), but since they are not now accepted on the L, you would need a Ventra Card or the $3 Ventra Ticket to get through the turnstile.

There were the reports about negative balances on student Ventra cards, but if the card is not linked to your checking account, I don't see how Ventra gets a chargeback, other than saying you have no value after you put in $2 the next time you reload at a vending machine or Jewel terminal.

Ventra doesn't allow negative balances, so if you are one of those who's brave enough to have Ventra linked to your checking account and your transit value drops to a value less than the applicable fare or to zero, then your checking account is going to get charged with a PAYG fare since that's the next step in the hierarchy of what to look for to register a valid fare.

[Busjack]

...

Ventra doesn't allow negative balances, so if you are one of those who's brave enough to have Ventra linked to your checking account and your transit value drops to a value less than the applicable fare or to zero, then your checking account is going to get charged with a PAYG fare since that's the next step in the hierarchy of what to look for to register a valid fare.

Do you have a source for that one, as up to now PAYG referred to using a bank card directly, which I assume also means a sap who has no transit balance, but a Ventra prepaid debit card?

As far as I know, it didn't refer to have a connection to reload the transit account when short or to pay for a monthly pass each month.

[jajuan]

Probably the best policy if using passes is to not keep extra money on the card this way Ventra can't surcharge you. I've seen passes expire prematurely, so what does that say Ventra will charge you for another pass a day early.

I wonder since we are still collecting cash fares under this system can someone still pay both ways, media and cash. Or will ventra just charge you for defaulting on your cash balance if you go into negative territory.

That will get you the red 'Stop' signal on the Ventra reader if a pass expires and you don't have extra money stored on the card. Since Busjack brought up sw as an example of a pass holder under Ventra, he's supposed to have 168 hours after his first tap of his Ventra card using the 7-day pass. Ventra does show you a listing of the bus and rail routes you've ridden with the card and what fare media your fare was charged against under your card's transaction history. In the case of passes, once you tap your card to activate a pass, your Pass column shows you the dates valid for the pass. I'll use myself as an example since I also loaded my Ventra card with a 7 day pass. I activated my own pass at 11:14 PM last Sunday. So if the current pass doesn't stay active up the full time and was kicked off before 11:14 PM this coming Sunday night then I should in theory be able see there is a problem. If I loaded another pass, that pass should stay 'In Queue' until at least that time. And trust me I've been watching my transit account with the same diligence with which I'm watching my accounts with my bank since this is new and they've had reported bugs to work through. So far though everything has been running smoothly with my card I'm glad to say.

[jajuan]

Do you have a source for that one, as up to now PAYG referred to using a bank card directly, which I assume also means a sap who has no transit balance, but a Ventra prepaid debit card?

As far as I know, it didn't refer to have a connection to reload the transit account when short or to pay for a monthly pass each month.

The source is the Ventra site under the terms and conditions. They explicitly say no negative balances are allowed on a transit account so being charged as a PAYG is what's theoretically supposed to happen if they linked their transit account to their checking account which can only be done as far as I know by registering your own debit card (which currently still isn't available) and the transit value dropped to either to zero or less than a Pace or CTA standard fare, I suppose it would happen also if they linked it with the prepaid debit account (which I'm not activating).

[Busjack]

The source is the Ventra site under the terms and conditions. They explicitly say no negative balances are allowed on a transit account so being charged as a PAYG is what's theoretically supposed to happen if they linked their transit account to their checking account which can only be done as far as I know by registering your own debit card (which currently still isn't available) and the transit value dropped to either to zero or less than a Pace or CTA standard fare, I suppose it would happen also if they linked it with the prepaid debit account (which I'm not activating).

I was referring to whether there is something analogous to the online fare reloading which was the distinguishing feature of the outgoing Chicago Card Plus. Maybe I erred in that that is linked to a credit card number.

[jajuan]

I was referring to whether there is something analogous to the online fare reloading which was the distinguishing feature of the outgoing Chicago Card Plus. Maybe I erred in that that is linked to a credit card number.

Okay, I might have misread your original question. Sorry. They do. You input which credit card you wish to use, and under both the transit value and the loaded pass columns you can choose to directly reload either feature yourself or turn on the automatic reload feature for either one. For the transit value if you set automatic reloads, you designate what set value you wish to automatically reload between a minimum of $20 up to a max of $100 (they have a sliding scale you move between those two amounts to the amount you wish to select). If your transit value falls below a $10 threshold like on CCP, your credit card is charged the amount you selected for the automatic reload and your transit value gets loaded for that amount. On the pass side, if you choose automatic reloads your credit card is hit for the price of the pass you set for automatic reload three business days before the pass is set to expire with the reloaded pass becoming active upon tapping after the previous one expires. Seeing that Chicago Card Plus had monthly passes reloaded on the 27th day of a current pass, yes the reload features on Ventra are quite similar. I got that info from the terms and conditions under the "Autoloading a Transit Account" section.

Edited September 18, 2013 by jajuan

[owine]

Chicago Card allowed negative balances for me if I used a pass back fare while I had my 30 day pass loaded. Since I was on auto-reload, the additional fare (regular, not cash) was taken with my next reload. I presume Ventra operates the same way since the CTA's website boasts a more robust pass back feature.

[jajuan]

Chicago Card allowed negative balances for me if I used a pass back fare while I had my 30 day pass loaded. Since I was on auto-reload, the additional fare (regular, not cash) was taken with my next reload. I presume Ventra operates the same way since the CTA's website boasts a more robust pass back feature.

From what they say in the terms and conditions, nope. In terms of the actual Ventra card, you either have to have enough transit value or a pass loaded. No negative balances are allowed on a transit account. Direct quote from the Ventra site under those terms and conditions of what they say happens if a Ventra transit account lacks sufficient fare:

If a Ventra Account balance is insufficient to pay for transit, one of the following will happen:

1. If the account is linked to a Ventra Card, travel will be denied
2. If the account is linked to a contactless credit or debit bank card or mobile phone, you will be charged the PAYG fare, which will be charged to that bank card/mobile phone's account.

Again here is the order they have the Ventra accounts programmed look for a valid fare on either CTA or Pace:

1. Joint CTA-Pace passes that are valid on both transit agencies
2. Agency-specific passes that are valid on just one participating transit agency
3. Shorter duration passes
4. Longer duration passes
5. Transit Benefit Value
6. Transit Value

If you have it linked to a contactless credit or debit card or to a mobile smart phone then the account is programmed to register your fare as a PAYG fare if you don't have sufficient fare under the above six options.

[brownliner]

 

Chicago Card allowed negative balances for me if I used a pass back fare while I had my 30 day pass loaded. Since I was on auto-reload, the additional fare (regular, not cash) was taken with my next reload. I presume Ventra operates the same way since the CTA's website boasts a more robust pass back feature.

 

Chicago card plus allowed negative balance even for for pay as you ride. Mine is set to charge $10 each time (I don't ride enough to make monthly passes worth while these days). Because their is a substantial lag in processing fares and payments, I've run it to as low as -$25. (I took a bunch of out of towners to a ball game and back on a saturday, plus a couple additional trips on sunday. Monday they charged enough to bring the account above $10. It'll be interesting to see how ventra deals with that sort of situation.

[Vinny]

I'm going to try one of these fare card conversion events today. Of course, the Ventra cards that will replace my CC Plus cards haven't arrived yet. But I have some transcards and a regular Chicago Card as well. I don't want to dump the entire CC balance on a single Ventra card though, I wonder if they'll be set up to split up a CC among multiple Ventra cards or alternately convert just a particular amount from CC to Ventra. My guess is that it will be an all-or-nothing deal (especially since I've seen somewhere (Hilkevitch?) that the conversions are limited to a single Ventra card per customer at these events).

Also, I had a problem entering one of the high barrier gates at the Irving Park Blue Line auxiliary entrance the other day - the transfer registered on my Chicago Card but then the gate locked when I tried to go through. The customer rep asked if someone using a Ventra card had gone through immediately before me (yes). He said it was happening all the time.

[Busjack]

The foul up du jour, as reported by the CTA Tattler, is if you pay the $5 deposit but don't put transit value on the card, you can't register it, even though it was represented that you could immediately register the card and get the $5 as transit value.

That, of course, reminded me about sw's discourse about the two PLUs, and apparently shows what happens if both are not recorded. Also, no indication yet that telephone support is adequate to fix all these problems.

[Amtrak41]

That seems to go hand-in-hand with nailing you every 18 months for inactivity. They don't want:

1) low-use customers cluttering their database

2) tourists to get one at all,

3) would rather tourist pay for a $3 ticket, just as they stiffed us for a 74% increase for the 1-day pass.

which makes this tourist all the more resolute to defy authority figures and get one, which I will (one of these days) since I have a registered CC.

[BusHunter]

The foul up du jour, as reported by the CTA Tattler, is if you pay the $5 deposit but don't put transit value on the card, you can't register it, even though it was represented that you could immediately register the card and get the $5 as transit value.

That, of course, reminded me about sw's discourse about the two PLUs, and apparently shows what happens if both are not recorded. Also, no indication yet that telephone support is adequate to fix all these problems.

That's interesting, I thought some of us were doing just that. So if someone puts $5 on a card and does not register it, waits a few months and starts using it they should still not have lost the $5, because as I understand it the dormancy fee is in the neighborhood of 18 months.

Back to the negative balance discussion, I'm surprised Ventra doesn't allow a negative account as long as it doesn't exceed say $5. They have your name and know you will come back to using that same card so they can hit you up for more fees. It doesn't really matter if the account is linked to a bank account or not. They could restrict the number of active accounts to a participant, this way you just can't go out and get more cards.

I'm starting to see multiple Ventra machines in certain locations, one that comes to mind is at Washington/Blue line Washington street mezzanine where they have 2 ventra machines now versus one transit card machine. Usage seems to be climbing to among riders, I would say they are up from 10 percent usage to maybe 30-50 percent now.

[Busjack]

That's interesting, I thought some of us were doing just that. So if someone puts $5 on a card and does not register it, waits a few months and starts using it they should still not have lost the $5, because as I understand it the dormancy fee is in the neighborhood of 18 months.

...

As I understand what was in the CTA Tattler, that wasn't the issue.

The issue was that if you only paid $5, you couldn't register it, and you can't use the $5 as transit value until you register it, which you can't, unless you put more money on it.

That's why I mentioned PLUs. Apparently you have to give your friendly Jewel clerk enough money to have punched on the receipt the transactions for both the deposit and some transit value, or what you bought is worthless, at least in the near term.