Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[BusHunter]

That sounds like a gift card

How would that work with a ventra card? Ventra cards are either reloadable or have to be registered the first time you buy it. Unless Jewel let's you put what you want on the card and then you can register it. But if so that's a one time deal.

[sw4400]

So you are saying a machine that accepts debit card transactions. So far I've seen no machines of any type at Jewel. (How does it add value if it's doesn't have the capability of the big standup machines, sounds like a ventra card machine to me, at least a little more on the primitive side of the "L" station ones)

sw would have to answer it himself. However, there is usually a sign at the top of the gift card rack that gift cards don't have value unless activated, so I suppose the cashier must have a means of doing so. It shouldn't take much more than a touch terminal.

This is how the machine works... we take the Ventra Card after the customer tells us how much to put on it(there might be an option for passes, but we're still getting our feet wet regarding the Ventra machine). We input that through options in the machine and slide the card through. Two receipts print... one for the customer, one for us. We sign on at the register and enter a special PLU and input the Ventra amount added and the customer gives us the cash or swipes a Debit/Credit Card at the register to pay for the loaded value and we give them that transaction receipt as well.

[jajuan]

And to answer Bushunter's unspoken question as to what the machines look like since he mentioned he didn't see them, they are small grey machines sitting on the side of each relevant Jewel service desk cash register the size of small adding machines with multicolored keys to input the information that sw referred to. And PLU for those not privy to Jewel/Chicago grocery story internal lingo is Price Look Up number. CTA had the units installed the middle part of August if I'm not mistaken. sw can verify that for sure, but I do think that's when I first noticed them and one of the girls working the service desk at the Jewel I shop in verified that's what the unit was. Now to clear up whether the waiving of the $5 fee is double talk as Busjack suspects, sw can also verify whether the fee is charged as a separate item in the cash register and in that case if he and coworkers are instructed not to charge it or in the case that the register includes it in the price whether they've been programmed not to charge it during the grace period. If it's not double talk then it sounds like folks are getting a free $5 dollar transit value added to their cards upon registration during the supposed free period.

[Busjack]

... Now to clear up whether the waiving of the $5 fee is double talk as Busjack suspects, sw can also verify whether the fee is charged as a separate item in the cash register and in that case if he and coworkers are instructed not to charge it or in the case that the register includes it in the price whether they've been programmed not to charge it during the grace period. If it's not double talk then it sounds like folks are getting a free $5 dollar transit value added to their cards upon registration during the supposed free period.

The possibility also exists that someone gave Customer Service $10, and the receipt says $10, but the card, when presented at a fare reader says $5. Thus, one has to check if the receipt is itemized to that extent.

Other than that, it sounds like a PowerBall machine at a cash register, as opposed to the big lottery ticket vending machine at the exit door with all the scratch and sniff lottery tickets, as well as quick picks.

[jajuan]

The possibility also exists that someone gave Customer Service $10, and the receipt says $10, but the card, when presented at a fare reader says $5. Thus, one has to check if the receipt is itemized to that extent.

Yes true. I forgot about that part of it. I almost over-thought the fee issue and was going to say maybe it would probably be easier to account for new customers by entering the fee separately. However, I caught myself in midthought since a new customer of course would not have a Ventra card to begin with.

[sw4400]

And to answer Bushunter's unspoken question as to what the machines look like since he mentioned he didn't see them, they are small grey machines sitting on the side of each relevant Jewel service desk cash register the size of small adding machines with multicolored keys to input the information that sw referred to. And PLU for those not privy to Jewel/Chicago grocery story internal lingo is Price Look Up number. CTA had the units installed the middle part of August if I'm not mistaken. sw can verify that for sure, but I do think that's when I first noticed them and one of the girls working the service desk at the Jewel I shop in verified that's what the unit was. Now to clear up whether the waiving of the $5 fee is double talk as Busjack suspects, sw can also verify whether the fee is charged as a separate item in the cash register and in that case if he and coworkers are instructed not to charge it or in the case that the register includes it in the price whether they've been programmed not to charge it during the grace period. If it's not double talk then it sounds like folks are getting a free $5 dollar transit value added to their cards upon registration during the supposed free period.

Our unit was installed week ending 8/17, so about mid-August. We have two PLU's... one to input the dollar amount and one for the Ventra $5 fee. I have yet to have a chance to read up on the Ventra program fully since I am doing just about everything in the Front End, but seeing how we have a PLU for the fee, we put in the PLU for the amount first, then the PLU for the fee. The customer pays that total(value added + fee) at the register and gets the receipt. He/She registers their card through CTA/Ventra and the fee is put on that card as transit credit.

With regard to the multi-day passes, I'd have to look into that and see how that is done. I imagine a similar PLU is used on the register. With the Ventra machine, there is probably a menu for transit passes that I didn't see, but again, I didn't have the time to explore the menus on the machine when logged in.

[Busjack]

... We have two PLU's... one to input the dollar amount and one for the Ventra $5 fee. I have yet to have a chance to read up on the Ventra program fully since I am doing just about everything in the Front End, but seeing how we have a PLU for the fee, we put in the PLU for the amount first, then the PLU for the fee. The customer pays that total(value added + fee) at the register and gets the receipt. He/She registers their card through CTA/Ventra and the fee is put on that card as transit credit.

....

Answers the question, but what happens if someone forgets the fee PLU?*

__________

*Sort of like the nectarines all having a PLU sticker, but the cashier asks what it is and puts in the wrong thing.

[jajuan]

Our unit was installed week ending 8/17, so about mid-August. We have two PLU's... one to input the dollar amount and one for the Ventra $5 fee. I have yet to have a chance to read up on the Ventra program fully since I am doing just about everything in the Front End, but seeing how we have a PLU for the fee, we put in the PLU for the amount first, then the PLU for the fee. The customer pays that total(value added + fee) at the register and gets the receipt. He/She registers their card through CTA/Ventra and the fee is put on that card as transit credit.

With regard to the multi-day passes, I'd have to look into that and see how that is done. I imagine a similar PLU is used on the register. With the Ventra machine, there is probably a menu for transit passes that I didn't see, but again, I didn't have the time to explore the menus on the machine when logged in.

So you guys haven't been instructed not to enter the fee PLU to honor CTA saying that the fee is waived until 2014? If that's the case then it would seem Busjack is correct that there is some double talk on CTA's part as not everyone is going to order a Ventra card online where the fee is definitely waived.

[Busjack]

So you guys haven't been instructed not to enter the fee PLU to honor CTA saying that the fee is waived until 2014? If that's the case then it would seem Busjack is correct that there is some double talk on CTA's part as not everyone is going to order a Ventra card online where the fee is definitely waived.

As the cited press release states:

The CTA and Pace are waiving the $5 one-time card purchase fee through the end of the year either online at ventrachicago.com, by calling (877) NOW VENTRA (1.877.669.8368) or in person at the Ventra Customer Service Center at 165 N. Jefferson St., Chicago, next to CTA headquarters. Customers who obtain a new Ventra card from Ventra vending machines at CTA rail stations or at hundreds of Ventra retail locations can easily have the one-time $5 fee immediately refunded as stored transit value on their card by taking a few minutes to register it online or by phone [emphasis added].

I assume that Jewel is one of the hundreds of retail locations.

Hence, if the person behind the service desk is doing his or her job, they are not authorized to ignore the deposit PLU, unless the nectarine problem I mentioned earlier arises. But, probably, the Ventra terminal doesn't recognize the transaction without the deposit or the card being recognized as previously registered.

Maybe sw wants to risk his job and try, but probably not.

[jajuan]

As the cited press release states:

I assume that Jewel is one of the hundreds of retail locations.

Hence, if the person behind the service desk is doing his or her job, they are not authorized to ignore the deposit PLU, unless the nectarine problem I mentioned earlier arises. But, probably, the Ventra terminal doesn't recognize the transaction without the deposit or the card being recognized as previously registered.

Maybe sw wants to risk his job and try, but probably not.

I don't believe I was asking anyone to risk their job. Just looking for a clear answer of the circumstances of the fee being waived beyond somewhat misleading news headlines. Thanks for the response though even if there was a tinge of cynicism added.

[sw4400]

Answers the question, but what happens if someone forgets the fee PLU?*

__________

*Sort of like the nectarines all having a PLU sticker, but the cashier asks what it is and puts in the wrong thing.

Then the customer gets the Ventra card without a fee, I guess. Hopefully, the associate who rings up the card doesn't forget, as that's basically like charging someone for an item, but not taking the money for it.

I can't tell you how many times the wrong PLU is entered for fruits and vegetables, or even more interesting, the dreaded "add a few more numbers to quantity" mistake. I've refunded both... wrong PLU entry and someone charging for 300 ears of corn when they only bought 3.

[Kevin]

Today's award for clueless reporting goes to FOX 32's Joanie Lum. She informs us that with Ventra "you don't have to use a token" and that you just "tap it, apparently." Yes, apparently.

This is followed by looping years-old file footage of people paying at turnstiles with magnetic cards, long before Ventra machines were installed.

You stay classy, FOX Chicago.

[Busjack]

Today's award for clueless reporting goes to FOX 32's Joanie Lum. She informs us that with Ventra "you don't have to use a token" and that you just "tap it, apparently." Yes, apparently.

This is followed by looping years-old file footage of people paying at turnstiles with magnetic cards, long before Ventra machines were installed.

You stay classy, FOX Chicago.

For that matter, Hilkevitch said today:

"In fact, owners of contactless credit and debit cards, which like a Ventra card contain radio frequency identification technology, can permanently forgo obtaining a Ventra card and simply tap their contactless credit or debit card on the Ventra reader on buses and at CTA rail stations and pay the same fare." (emphasis added).

Not according to trigger and the way this thread went.

[Amtrak41]

http://www.suntimes.com/22454562-761/ventra-attracts-little-attention-from-cta-riders-during-first-morning-rush.html

"Balances from as many as five old cards can be transferred at one time but must add up to a minimum of $5. Passes for one, three, seven or 30 days cannot be transferred, so these should be spent down. From January through March 2014, balances of any amount can be transferred by mailing in old cards to the Ventra Customer Service Center, at 165 N. Jefferson."

Being back on the east coast since middle of last week with $2.25 left on my Chicagocard NotPlus, and not returning until next summer, I guess I am screwed.

[Busjack]

http://www.suntimes.com/22454562-761/ventra-attracts-little-attention-from-cta-riders-during-first-morning-rush.html

"Balances from as many as five old cards can be transferred at one time but must add up to a minimum of $5. Passes for one, three, seven or 30 days cannot be transferred, so these should be spent down. From January through March 2014, balances of any amount can be transferred by mailing in old cards to the Ventra Customer Service Center, at 165 N. Jefferson."

Being back on the east coast since middle of last week with $2.25 left on my Chicagocard NotPlus, and not returning until next summer, I guess I am screwed.

Is this the same $2.25 as before the trip, or, after careful budgeting, you still have a balance?

[geneking7320]

Have you folks paid attention to the tones played when you tap the Ventra card?

They remind me of the automated door closing announcement on Metra.

[Amtrak41]

Coincidence for the $2.25. I carefully budgeted exactly $12, and added same, but I screwed up on an assumption I should have checkout beforehand. Long story:

1) I had bought a 3-day pass Groupon for $9 last winter. It said "use by Sep 1". I assumed the 72 hours had to end by midnight Sep 1, so planned and calculated a bunch of CTA and PACE rides thru Wednesday. I left Chicago on Amtrak's #30 Wednesday night.

2) I had $12 all ready to insert at CTA vending machine in the Metra lobby in Union Station, but just like last year and the year before, it was not taking bills and no credit cards accepted. I wanted to take the 36 bus to 3000 North Broadway. So I shlepped up to Wells/Washington "L" station to add $12 there, then went to Dearborn St to catch my bus. I boarded precisely at 9:30am Aug 31, used my 3-day pass, which now said good thru 930am Sep 3. So which takes precedence: the Sep 1 or the Sep 3 ? I was to find out Labor Day Sep 2 morning.

3) On Labor Day, I walked from my hotel to the Diversey "L" station merely to try out the 3 day pass on a turnstile before risking screwing up on a bus to see if it would work. It did. So the cash fares I loaded on my Chicago Card for the trips I planned Sep 2 and early Sep 3 were not to be used.

4) Tuesday night Sep 3, with my surplus, was staying in Morton Grove, so I splurged and took PACE 210 for $2 round trip to take video of Metra at Glenview. (Empire Builder was 4 hours late, so couldn't wait around for that).

They also did issue me a new farecard for the expired fare card for $2.25 at CTQ HQ.

CTA's, and Ventra's advice on Chicago Card was to "give it to a friend in Chicago" since I won't be back until next summer. Well I really have none, so I am stuck with an extra $2.25. I am surprised they encourage transferability when they can be registered to an individual.

[Busjack]

Coincidence for the $2.25. ..

They also did issue me a new farecard for the expired fare card for $2.25 at CTQ HQ.

CTA's, and Ventra's advice on Chicago Card was to "give it to a friend in Chicago" since I won't be back until next summer. Well I really have none, so I am stuck with an extra $2.25. I am surprised they encourage transferability when they can be registered to an individual.

Apparently you lucked out on getting the new fare card, but we discussed that before.

The registration is essentially if it is lost or stolen. Unlike, say, Metra with monthlies (which indicate male and female), CTA doesn't care who spends loaded cash fares. The mag stripe cards said that you could stick them in the same machine 7 times for 7 persons' fares on one trip.

However, your initial post indicates why CTA said to spend existing media down, and probably indicates that there will be a lot of forfeitures from old cards, probably way more from when they enforced that value on expired cards was forfeited.

[BusHunter]

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

[Amtrak41]

I doubt they will do anything with a mailed in CC if value is less than $5.

If there is a lot of complaints next March, perhaps they will extend trade-in period to go into the summer. I don't see the big rush to forfeit people's value on old media.

[Busjack]

...

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. ...

Any card on the gift card rack says it has to be activated before it is valid.

In this case, the only potential loss would be if someone tried to register a stolen card and get the $5 deposit back, but I'm sure that at that point the card would be reported as stolen, or there wouldn't be a proper trail of the type sw said was necessary, with the PLUs and a customer receipt being generated at the terminal. Obviously, a card stolen off the rack would have no stored value, as it has to be added on purchase [update: and not even the $5 to move to the transit account].

I suppose that the reason one has to go to the customer service desk is that the transaction is complicated, sort of like buying an IPass at Jewel.

[sw4400]

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

Ventra Cards are sold only at the Service Desk at Jewel. I know from doing one transaction of adding a dollar amount($10) to a Ventra Card, we login to the Ventra Machine, select the add value option and select $10. I swipe the Ventra Card through the machine and it then prints two receipts(one customer, one merchant). Then we sign on to the register and use the designated PLU for Ventra for adding value. Then we tell the customer the total(in this case $10). They pay with whatever tender they choose through the register, when the receipt prints completing the tender, they get that and we print a copy of the transaction receipt and staple it to the merchant copy of the Ventra receipt.

This doesn't answer yet about the passes, but I'm going to guess it's very similar... say Kevin comes to my store and wants a 7-Day CTA pass on his Ventra card. I login to the Ventra Machine and there should be an add pass option. I find and select CTA 7-Day Pass and swipe his card. Two receipts will print from the machine(customer, merchant). I sign on to the register and use whatever designated PLU is for the CTA 7-Day Pass(maybe it's the old one or maybe a new one since it's done on a Ventra Card now). Whatever the case I put that in, tell him his total and he pays in whatever tender he chooses through the register. He gets his sale receipt from the register along with his customer receipt from the Ventra Machine. I make a copy of his receipt from the register and staple it to the merchant copy from the Ventra Machine and store it in the register. Sale complete.

[jajuan]

Today's award for clueless reporting goes to FOX 32's Joanie Lum. She informs us that with Ventra "you don't have to use a token" and that you just "tap it, apparently." Yes, apparently.

This is followed by looping years-old file footage of people paying at turnstiles with magnetic cards, long before Ventra machines were installed.

You stay classy, FOX Chicago.

Wow.

But wasn't it mentioned above that you could send your chicago card to cta hq and they will transfer the balance?

As far as Jewel is concerned, I'm assuming the cards are only kept at the service desk. This way, someone can't walk out with a free card. I like the idea of getting a receipt for your tranactions. I've already seen riders whose cards have no balance yet they put money on the card. So how does a pass sale work at Jewel? You have to tell the service desk you want the money on a pass. I'd hate to see what happens if they screw up and put money on the ventra card not as a pass, but as a rider balance, but then maybe that could be fixed on the ventra website.

And yes the cards are stored only at the service desk inside the Jewel stores. They are NOT stored on any of the gift card racks. Thus yes the transaction for a Ventra card purchase is done only at the service desks just like with the magnetic stripe cards which they will be replacing. One of the girls that I know who works at a Jewel service desk was telling me this morning that a CTA rep was out yesterday to make sure the mini Ventra machine at the service desk was working properly for today's rollout.

[jajuan]

Ventra Cards are sold only at the Service Desk at Jewel. I know from doing one transaction of adding a dollar amount($10) to a Ventra Card, we login to the Ventra Machine, select the add value option and select $10. I swipe the Ventra Card through the machine and it then prints two receipts(one customer, one merchant). Then we sign on to the register and use the designated PLU for Ventra for adding value. Then we tell the customer the total(in this case $10). They pay with whatever tender they choose through the register, when the receipt prints completing the tender, they get that and we print a copy of the transaction receipt and staple it to the merchant copy of the Ventra receipt.

This doesn't answer yet about the passes, but I'm going to guess it's very similar... say Kevin comes to my store and wants a 7-Day CTA pass on his Ventra card. I login to the Ventra Machine and there should be an add pass option. I find and select CTA 7-Day Pass and swipe his card. Two receipts will print from the machine(customer, merchant). I sign on to the register and use whatever designated PLU is for the CTA 7-Day Pass(maybe it's the old one or maybe a new one since it's done on a Ventra Card now). Whatever the case I put that in, tell him his total and he pays in whatever tender he chooses through the register. He gets his sale receipt from the register along with his customer receipt from the Ventra Machine. I make a copy of his receipt from the register and staple it to the merchant copy from the Ventra Machine and store it in the register. Sale complete.

The girl I mentioned in my post before I realized you were answering the same question mentioned to me that when a service desk person signs onto the machine it shows options for the passes that can be loaded at Jewel and the add value option that you mentioned.

[Busjack]

The WGN Noon News had a report where the reporter said that she was hanging out at the Logan Square station and the only glitch was someone with a student card had a negative balance, and loaded more money at the vending machine, but it didn't show up at the turnstile. They told him to wait 5 minutes, and he waited 10, but it still didn't work, so he told them he had to get to school and they let them through.

This sounded independent from the student card problem reported a week ago, but there sure seems to be a problem if money deposited into a vending machine isn't immediately credited.