Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[jajuan]

Which was my point with regard to not being willing to register my debit card, since the alternatives according to trigger were either putting a transit account on that card or paying $2.25 a swipe.

Now, since using a credit card at the old machines was not dependent on RFID technology, are you saying that the Ventra vending machines aren't taking the old fashioned mag stripe credit cards? Or does one just swipe one of those and pay the $5 deposit?

P.S. I'm agreeing with the FoxChicago report at 8:30 that Ventra certainly is not going over well with the riders.

On your last point, in part because the way CTA is muddling through the rollout is serving to, in some cases, unnecessarily exacerbate folks' fears of the potential negatives, and in doing so only providing ways for the negatives to overshadow the potential positives that can be found, especially if you learn to be savvy about it like customers of other products and service tend to learn to be when it comes to how much a hit to the wallet they're reasonably willing to take.

[Busjack]

On your last point, in part because the way CTA is muddling through the rollout is serving to, in some cases, unnecessarily exacerbate folks' fears of the potential negatives, and in doing so only providing ways for the negatives to overshadow the potential positives that can be found, especially if ..

Which is the point that the CTA always seems to do that, despite having a $650,000/year PR department. PR is, of course, only effective if it affects public perception.

They messed up the PR on the debit card portion too, although that may have been one of the PR "putting lipstick on a pig" problems. Note that unlike renegotiating with MetaBank, CTA isn't going out of its way to explain people who should have received mailings or cards but did not, negative balances after payments were made either by credit card or a Ventra machine, for instance, not to mention in our context, having to use trigger to explain anything.

I thought that an open fare system would have been a good thing, but with CTA mucking it up in its usual fashion....

[Juniorz]

Email from Ventra to registered CCP & CC Customers This Morning

This is an important follow-up email regarding Ventra and your Chicago Card contact information.

The CTA and Pace are in the process of transitioning to Ventra, the easy new way to pay for train and bus rides. With Ventra, customers will be able to use a single fare card for transit throughout the Chicago region. If you have not already done so, it is imperative that you take a moment to update your information on your Chicago Card account (http://www.chicago-card.com/cc/) by clicking/selecting Edit Registration Info. Please update your information by 9-20-13.

Once youve confirmed your contact information, we will start the process of creating your new Ventra Card. You will receive an email from Ventra 7-10 business days before your Card is shipped with instructions for activating your card.

We recommend that you spend down the remaining balance on your Chicago Card prior to activating your new Ventra Card. In-person balance transfers will be available in the future, so please look for updates on ventrachicago.com.

We look forward to getting you on board with Ventra!

The Chicago Card team

1-888-YOUR-CTA

[sw4400]

Ok, I got my Ventra Card today and added a 7-Day Pass, but how do I register it? The sticker on the card says

YOU CAN USE THIS CARD IMMEDIATELY to board trains and buses on CTA and PACE. Optional: Visit ventrachicago.com or call 1-877-NOW-VENTRA to activate your Prepaid Debit Account and use wherever Debit MasterCard® is accepted.

I absolutely do not want that optional Debit Card!!! I just want to register it so I can get a replacement if lost or stolen and a new one when expired.

This is the screen on ventrachicago.com

[Busjack]

I take that the 877 number is the general Ventra number and you can deal with them with regard to any Ventra issue you have. You might even get a human to answer the phone, and thus your question. Or trigger will be here in a while.

[owine]

There is a separate website run by MoneyNetwork for activating the prepaid debit feature.

[BusHunter]

I haven't been seeing too many Ventra users on the bus. I would say usage is at 10 percent. Most likely everyone is waiting until they have to use Ventra, so there will be a flood of cards in November going out. So this has got me wondering if there might be a shortage of cards when that happens. I have on one of my future youtube videos a story about the Chicago Cards being sold out due to the fact that everyone had to use them to avoid a fare increase. So if riders are being forced to use Ventra wouldn't the past have a possibility of repeating itself. Just a thought.

[Busjack]

I haven't been seeing too many Ventra users on the bus. I would say usage is at 10 percent. Most likely everyone is waiting until they have to use Ventra, so there will be a flood of cards in November going out. So this has got me wondering if there might be a shortage of cards when that happens. I have on one of my future youtube videos a story about the Chicago Cards being sold out due to the fact that everyone had to use them to avoid a fare increase. So if riders are being forced to use Ventra wouldn't the past have a possibility of repeating itself. Just a thought.

I think that the difference is that whoever runs this is going to have to have enough cards to convert everyone by December, while the Chicago Cards were only to avoid a fare increase, and the mag stripe cards still remained available.In short, inventory not sold in September should still be available for sale in December, unless someone totally miscalculated.

[BusHunter]

CTA ridership on a standard weekday is between 1.6 & 1.7 million riders, so if we estimate half of those are single rides they may be in the neighborhood of needing one million Ventra cards. Are they prepared for this? I should note not the same riders ride everyday so that figure could be higher. I wonder if Ventra or a Ventra like system is in place in one of the major public transportation cities like LA or N.Y. If not this may be a true experiment in the production limits of the card.

As far as your chicago card point, it was just the cash riders back then who needed a card the pass people were ok, this time by comparison though is the entire system. I think I'm going to recommend people at least buy a card because if they do have a shortage how will those people without a ventra card ride anything.

Btw, I forgot the pace riders so are we talking two million to three million cards?

[sw4400]

Ok, I got the card registered finally. On a first trial use today...

First thoughts: It was a quick, easy process to use... you hold it to the reader until you hear a *beep* and the screen says "GO", and you're good to go. I haven't tried it yet at a rail station yet, where a lot of the issues have been reported with turnstiles malfunctioning and not working partway in after you touch the card. If the kinks have been worked out now, then this could be a quick, easy process for all to use to board CTA Buses and Trains and PACE Buses too. I could even see this somehow used on Metra if they ever get on board with the idea. How they would utilize it, I don't know... Conductors with portable Ventra readers, Ventra readers at the car doors... however they choose to do it, it'll be easier then carrying cash for trips from say Ravenswood to Evanston Main or Ogilvie Station, which are priced differently depending on destination.

This might even replace the ADA 10-ride tickets for the PACE Paratransit Vans. They can just put a Ventra reader in the back and the customer simply taps their Ventra Card and the Paratransit cost is deducted from the card.

[jajuan]

CTA ridership on a standard weekday is between 1.6 & 1.7 million riders, so if we estimate half of those are single rides they may be in the neighborhood of needing one million Ventra cards. Are they prepared for this? I should note not the same riders ride everyday so that figure could be higher. I wonder if Ventra or a Ventra like system is in place in one of the major public transportation cities like LA or N.Y. If not this may be a true experiment in the production limits of the card.

As far as your chicago card point, it was just the cash riders back then who needed a card the pass people were ok, this time by comparison though is the entire system. I think I'm going to recommend people at least buy a card because if they do have a shortage how will those people without a ventra card ride anything.

Btw, I forgot the pace riders so are we talking two million to three million cards?

I think they might be prepared for this. I'm seeing an increasing number of riders on the 22 Clark, 9 Ashland along its northern section, and on the north side express routes using a Ventra card each day. And from what I've been seeing, most of them have little problems with using their cards. I think I may have seen four or five people total out of Ventra users I've seen since late August who had a problem with their cards being read by the Ventra reader and the bus operators have let them aboard with no argument.

[BusHunter]

I think they might be prepared for this. I'm seeing an increasing number of riders on the 22 Clark, 9 Ashland along its northern section, and on the north side express routes using a Ventra card each day. And from what I've been seeing, most of them have little problems with using their cards. I think I may have seen four or five people total out of Ventra users I've seen since late August who had a problem with their cards being read by the Ventra reader and the bus operators have let them aboard with no argument.

The bus operators are supposed to be able to check to see if your card is valid if say for instance someone boarded with a bogus card with nothing on it/expired pass. Whether they have time to conduct court has yet to be seen. I did see a bus tonight with the ventra card reader saying not in use. I have been told the vending machines at the CTA rail stations will give you a receipt but I have yet to dig deeper into that. Like i said before CTA should pass you by if your card doesn't work initially but probably in the future they might check the card out, but that might slow down operations. (at least that's my concern)

[Kevin]

I received and activated my Ventra card last night. The balance from my Chicago Card Plus was supposed to automatically get transferred to the Ventra card. It didn't and I got the big red "STOP" at the reader.

To add to the fun, Ventra's support form on their site has a 160 character limit. Might as well just use Twitter.

[Busjack]

CTA ridership on a standard weekday is between 1.6 & 1.7 million riders, so if we estimate half of those are single rides they may be in the neighborhood of needing one million Ventra cards. Are they prepared for this? I should note not the same riders ride everyday so that figure could be higher. I wonder if Ventra or a Ventra like system is in place in one of the major public transportation cities like LA or N.Y. If not this may be a true experiment in the production limits of the card.

..

Btw, I forgot the pace riders so are we talking two million to three million cards?

It still seems like your numbers are way off.

First, if the base fare is $2.25 and the average fare is $1.10, the number of actual passengers is far less than the number of rides, even if some passengers are using discount media.

Second, if you go somewhere, you usually have to get back, so cut half of them.

Third, there is the issue of cross platform transfers.

Fourth, Pace says 40% of its riders transfer to CTA.

I don't think that, for example, Citibank has any problem getting out millions of cards.

[See Tea Eh]

Given that CTA already knows how many Chicago Cards and little plastic transit cards are in use/sold each day, I don't see why it should be a big deal for them to know how many Ventra Cards they will need.

[Amtrak41]

"some say their debit card has been charged instead"

http://voices.suntimes.com/news/transportation-news/psa-dont-keep-your-ventra-card-in-your-wallet/

[Busjack]

"some say their debit card has been charged instead"

http://voices.suntimes.com/news/transportation-news/psa-dont-keep-your-ventra-card-in-your-wallet/

The key there was "after waiving their wallet," instead of "tapping their card."

But after having debated what would be charged if the reader encountered two, I guess we now have an answer. Of course, the most expensive one.

Anyway, see the DePaul tweets embedded in the article.

[jajuan]

The bus operators are supposed to be able to check to see if your card is valid if say for instance someone boarded with a bogus card with nothing on it/expired pass. Whether they have time to conduct court has yet to be seen. I did see a bus tonight with the ventra card reader saying not in use. I have been told the vending machines at the CTA rail stations will give you a receipt but I have yet to dig deeper into that. Like i said before CTA should pass you by if your card doesn't work initially but probably in the future they might check the card out, but that might slow down operations. (at least that's my concern)

Bought my Ventra Card loaded with a CTA 7-day pass from the Howard Red Line station's Ventra vending machine, and yes the vending machines do give you a receipt upon you pressing yes at the "Would you like a receipt?" prompt. I did the registration through my smart phone while sitting on a 22 Clark bus that was on layover. That was actually quick and painless, and the $5 fee I got charged at the vending machine did get credited to card as a transit value within two seconds of me logging into my transit account after registering my card. The 7-day pass was also shown in the pass queue ready for use upon my first successful tap. I was pleasantly surprised to find purchase process itself was quite seamless. It took me less than five minutes to complete the transaction. The registration took me maybe another five minutes. So far so good in my personal Ventra transition.

The key there was "after waiving their wallet," instead of "tapping their card."

But after having debated what would be charged if the reader encountered two, I guess we now have an answer. Of course, the most expensive one.

Anyway, see the DePaul tweets embedded in the article.

And the Ventra site does explicitly say that you have to take the card out of your wallet and swipe it alone against the Ventra reader or else tapping a wallet or purse like with Chicago Card or CCP will result in either your debit card or credit card registering a tap if they are equipped with the RFID chip.

[trigger]

Well, if you really believe the CTA will run out of Ventra Cards, the thing to do is to stock up on them now while they are readily available. Then in December as the shortage develops and the deadline looms you can stand outside a busy 'L' station in a long overcoat going "Psst! Buddy, ya wanna buy a Ventra Card cheap?"

Show some entrepreneurial initiative. Worst case, if there is no shortage and the black market doesn't develop, you can just use them to pay your own bus fares.

[Busjack]

Well, if you really believe the CTA will run out of Ventra Cards, the thing to do is to stock up on them now while they are readily available. Then in December as the shortage develops and the deadline looms you can stand outside a busy 'L' station in a long overcoat going "Psst! Buddy, ya wanna buy a Ventra Card cheap?"

Show some entrepreneurial initiative. Worst case, if there is no shortage and the black market doesn't develop, you can just use them to pay your own bus fares.

Are you assuring that all those $5 deposits are going to be refunded?

[owine]

I received and activated my Ventra card last night. The balance from my Chicago Card Plus was supposed to automatically get transferred to the Ventra card. It didn't and I got the big red "STOP" at the reader.

To add to the fun, Ventra's support form on their site has a 160 character limit. Might as well just use Twitter.

I also just received my Ventra Card. I am a CCP user with a 30-day pass. My balance and pass did not transfer yet.

[owine]

I just thought of this:

My employer does transit benefits via a third party vendor and it is fulfilled with its own prepaid Mastercard to use as the funding source for CCP/Ventra. The maximum amount is something like $245 per month. Theoretically, I could evade taxes by putting more than my monthly pass amount onto my Ventra card and spend it with the Ventra debit card. Am I missing something there?

[trigger]

Are you assuring that all those $5 deposits are going to be refunded?

Just choose a fake name and address and register them under that. It doesn't even have to be in Chicago. They don't ask for ID.

But if you can sell them for $20 a piece, $5 is a small investment.

[trigger]

I just thought of this:

My employer does transit benefits via a third party vendor and it is fulfilled with its own prepaid Mastercard to use as the funding source for CCP/Ventra. The maximum amount is something like $245 per month. Theoretically, I could evade taxes by putting more than my monthly pass amount onto my Ventra card and spend it with the Ventra debit card. Am I missing something there?

The Ventra Card has two separate subaccounts: A Transit Account and a Debit Account. Money in the Transit Account cannot be spent with the debit card and cannot be transferred to the Debit Account.

If your employer somehow allowed you to fund the Debit Account, then yes you could take advantage. But if your employer is not monitoring what you do with the prepaid Mastercard, why bother with the Ventra Card? Just take your employer's prepaid Mastercard to Jewel or Nordstrom or wherever and have yourself a shopping spree.

[brownliner]

< Supposedly some gas pumps have stickers that they take a set authorization first, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for Ventra to do so. >

My experience is that gas stations do a temp authorization for $1. No excuse for Ventra to be jack-asses.

Pricey hotel chains may also do a ridiculous amounts unrelated to your room charge.

< In any case, the $5 authorization is just temporary and the actual amount is charged. >

It may not make much difference, but your FICO at any given moment ingests the $5 temp authorization as counting toward your debt/credit ratio. If your score would otherwise be 751, and this takes it down to 749, and you happen to be asking for loan in that 2 day period, you are down 1 notch in FICO's gradebook.

While utilization (the ratio between your available credit on an account and the reported balance) is an important part of FICO credit scoring, it's based on the balance reported the credit bureaus. That is, almost universally, the balance on your monthly statement. (The exceptions are a handful of banks that report based on a fixed schedule.) In no case does it include transactions that have not fully posted. So the temp auths aren't an issue for that.

What is probably an issue for some people are debit card holds, which some banks do not promptly release, even when they've processed the actual capture of funds.

I can't think of a good reason for anyone to use a personal card to use ventra, except possibly tourists.