Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[Busjack]

Do ridership reports come from fare media? I always thought they used the passenger counters at the front/rear doors for that data.

If you read the report, it says "Boardings are recorded using the bus farebox and farecard reader."

However, in that the June one was counting R routes, obviously nobody was paying there. So, maybe it is now a mix, or as you think.

[jajuan]

If you read the report, it says "Boardings are recorded using the bus farebox and farecard reader."

However, in that the June one was counting R routes, obviously nobody was paying there. So, maybe it is now a mix, or as you think.

Given the R routes are free and they're somehow getting counted, it probably is a mix of the two as you hypothesize. There still should be a record of each bus's individual use on a give route considering BusTracker does know the difference between the interlines in play. Perhaps the counters owine mention are used in conjunction with BusTracker to account for free rides, times a farecard reader and/or farebox malfunctions, and to correct for interlining that CTA become increasingly more reliant upon in these recent years.

[Kevin]

So yesterday I used my Ventra card to board a rail station and was charged the proper $2.25 fare. Within an hour, I transferred to a bus where I was charged BOTH another full fare ($2.00) and a transfer ($0.25). I submitted a support request on Ventra's site, which immediately was assigned a status of "Closed Incident."

[Busjack]

So yesterday I used my Ventra card to board a rail station and was charged the proper $2.25 fare. Within an hour, I transferred to a bus where I was charged BOTH another full fare ($2.00) and a transfer ($0.25). I submitted a support request on Ventra's site, which immediately was assigned a status of "Closed Incident."

Since it was a Ventra card rather than a bank card, you were definitely screwed on this one, which is the "foul up du jour."

Maybe the incompetent machine thought you tapped twice to let your friend ride on your card.

So are they going to do anything about it?

[sw4400]

So yesterday I used my Ventra card to board a rail station and was charged the proper $2.25 fare. Within an hour, I transferred to a bus where I was charged BOTH another full fare ($2.00) and a transfer ($0.25). I submitted a support request on Ventra's site, which immediately was assigned a status of "Closed Incident."

Looking at the fare info for Ventra Cards on the CTA main page, weren't you charged right? I'm not sure about the .25 cent transfer fee, but bus and train appear to be not transferrable.

"L" fare is $2.25 and bus fare is $2.00 plus .25 cents for two more bus rides within two hours, so if you boarded, say, the #9 Ashland bus it should say "Transfer 9 Ashland Transit Value $0.00" provided you do before 12:14:44 PM.

Here's the * footnote:

* Applies at all train stations except O’Hare (where a premium fare applies).

[jajuan]

Looking at the fare info for Ventra Cards on the CTA main page, weren't you charged right? I'm not sure about the .25 cent transfer fee, but bus and train appear to be not transferrable.

"L" fare is $2.25 and bus fare is $2.00 plus .25 cents for two more bus rides within two hours, so if you boarded, say, the #9 Ashland bus it should say "Transfer 9 Ashland Transit Value $0.00" provided you do before 12:14:44 PM.

No, he was overcharged. Since he was using his Ventra card and not his bankcard and it was well within a two hour time frame (his bus ride coming just 40 minutes after he tapped for his train ride), he only should have been charged the $0.25 transfer cost when he boarded the 62. He got charged that and an additional $2 full fare for the bus ride.

[nflyer22]

If you read the report, it says "Boardings are recorded using the bus farebox and farecard reader."

Given the R routes are free and they're somehow getting counted, it probably is a mix of the two as you hypothesize. There still should be a record of each bus's individual use on a give route considering BusTracker does know the difference between the interlines in play. Perhaps the counters owine mention are used in conjunction with BusTracker to account for free rides, times a farecard reader and/or farebox malfunctions, and to correct for interlining that CTA become increasingly more reliant upon in these recent years.

I have noticed that whenever I boarded a bus that did not accept fare for whatever reason, the operator would press a button on the farebox for each passenger that boarded. The farebox 'beeps' very subtly every time the operator pressed the button. I have noticed this on the R routes whenever I rode, and way back in the day when the Chinatown/Pilsen shuttles were operating, which was also free of charge. My guess is that is how they are counting passengers.

[Busjack]

I have noticed that whenever I boarded a bus that did not accept fare for whatever reason, the operator would press a button for each passenger that boarded. The farebox has a very subtle 'beep' whenever the operator does this. I have noticed this on the R routes whenever I rode, and way back in the day when the Chinatown/Pilsen shuttles were operating. My guess is that is how they are counting passengers.

In that you saw the drivers take that extra step, that does answer the question.

[Amtrak41]

An intermodal transfer with boarding within 2 hours is the easiest thing they have to program, and they even screwed that up.

Maybe the clocks on the fare readers are not in sync ?

[Busjack]

An intermodal transfer with boarding within 2 hours is the easiest thing they have to program, and they even screwed that up.

Maybe the clocks on the fare readers are not in sync ?

There didn't seem to be any problem with the clock on the printout Kevin posted. Both the use and the transfer were the same time to the second, and, as pointed out, the L boarding was less than 2 hours before the 2 bus transactions.

[Amtrak41]

That could be the time on the central CPU, not on the field devices.

[jajuan]

That could be the time on the central CPU, not on the field devices.

No the times are in real time from the field devices. When I check my own transit accounts, the times given are indeed the times I actually boarded the buses in question and tapped my card. What would be the point of not using real time of the actual boardings if they hope for this system to work with ideally no glitches and process the correct fare for passengers?

[Amtrak41]

My point is while your account log has the actual time from the CPU, the time on the field device could be way off AND that field device's time setting determined whether or not you get banged for another fare.

[brownliner]

 

It also makes me wonder if Chicago Card and CCP had this issue with reading between CTA interlining.

 

the customer visible report just shows something like:

9/11/2013 10:49 PM CTA Bus -$2.25 $11.75

They must know what farebox that is, which would tell them the bus, which given a time stamp tells them which route, even if it's interlined. Whether they actually get that data to use for something useful, I do not know. Shouldn't be hard, though.

That's also not actually a bus boarding, but going through a portable turnstile at 35th after a sox game, which is why it's $2.25. But I picked this one because the portable fareboxes weren't yet setup to do ventra, the attendant was calling "Cash, Transit Card, Chicago Card, NO ventra". She waved someone with a ventra card through... Don't know if those have gotten ventra readers yet.

[Vinny]

In another brilliant move, I got a repeat of the earlier "Convenience is Coming" email telling me once again that my new Ventra card would be coming in 7-10 days (the previous message came 17 days ago). Rather than showing the "temporary" username and "temporary" password for the Ventra account, it showed my new username and password that I created, but still called them temporary. So usernames and passwords are being sent in unencrypted email, which makes me wonder if they're being stored in the clear.

[jajuan]

My point is while your account log has the actual time from the CPU, the time on the field device could be way off AND that field device's time setting determined whether or not you get banged for another fare.

That still does not negate the fact that Kevin's bus ride is shown to be 40 mins after his L ride, which therefore means he got overcharged when the reader dinged him for a $2 additional fare the same exact second he was charged correctly for a transfer to the bus.

[jajuan]

In another brilliant move, I got a repeat of the earlier "Convenience is Coming" email telling me once again that my new Ventra card would be coming in 7-10 days (the previous message came 17 days ago). Rather than showing the "temporary" username and "temporary" password for the Ventra account, it showed my new username and password that I created, but still called them temporary. So usernames and passwords are being sent in unencrypted email, which makes me wonder if they're being stored in the clear.

At best it shows CTA continues with employees, or in the case of the Ventra rollout partners, who are too darn lax with double checking their own work before moving to the next task.

[Busjack]

My point is while your account log has the actual time from the CPU, the time on the field device could be way off AND that field device's time setting determined whether or not you get banged for another fare.

• Kevin would know better, but I don't think there is any timer in the field device. The field device just reads the number on the chip, asks the server if it is valid and tells the server to charge the account.
• Kevin also noted his problem on the CTA Tattler, right under someone else who had reported the same sort of problem earlier.
• The field device wouldn't know that Kevin had previously gone through an L turnstile and thus charge the 25 cent transfer fare. That was proper, although $2.00 at the same time through the same device was not.

[Busjack]

On the timer issue, you might want to mull over chris's comment on the CTA Tattler, which is essentially that he has a 30 day pass, but after he used it once, but then left the paid area, no other reader would allow it.

[jajuan]

Well I'm just glad to be able to say so far for myself personally, after using Ventra a week and a half now, I haven't had a major issue using my Ventra card. All my rides to this point have been bus rides. I haven't used the L yet due to earlier reports of folks getting stuck in the turnstiles because they only turned halfway after tapping their cards. Maybe that issue was fixed given Kevin successfully got through with his card.

[Busjack]

Well I'm just glad to be able to say so far for myself personally, after using Ventra a week and a half now, I haven't had a major issue using my Ventra card. All my rides to this point have been bus rides. I haven't used the L yet due to earlier reports of folks getting stuck in the turnstiles because they only turned halfway after tapping their cards. Maybe that issue was fixed given Kevin successfully got through with his card.

As I understood it, the issue was with rotogates, not turnstiles. RedEye.

[owine]

Well I'm just glad to be able to say so far for myself personally, after using Ventra a week and a half now, I haven't had a major issue using my Ventra card. All my rides to this point have been bus rides. I haven't used the L yet due to earlier reports of folks getting stuck in the turnstiles because they only turned halfway after tapping their cards. Maybe that issue was fixed given Kevin successfully got through with his card.

I have also had no issues but my riding has been all L and no bus. I had one instance of the wrong card in my wallet being read, but now I just take the Ventra card out. I am going to experiment with some aluminium or duct tape in between cards to possible isolate the RFID signals and allow me to tap my wallet once again. I also had one instance where I got the STOP signal, but another scan yielded a GO.

[Busjack]

I have also had no issues but my riding has been all L and no bus. I had one instance of the wrong card in my wallet being read, but now I just take the Ventra card out. I am going to experiment with some aluminium or duct tape in between cards to possible isolate the RFID signals and allow me to tap my wallet once again. I also had one instance where I got the STOP signal, but another scan yielded a GO.

It seems like "tapping your wallet" is a bad idea in any event. Besides the "wrong card" issue, it shows people "asking for a donation" hanging around the L station that you have a wallet, probably with money in it, and also available to steal if they ever figure out that iPhones have gps in them, and hence are not such a good target.

[owine]

It seems like "tapping your wallet" is a bad idea in any event. Besides the "wrong card" issue, it shows people "asking for a donation" hanging around the L station that you have a wallet, probably with money in it, and also available to steal if they ever figure out that iPhones have gps in them, and hence are not such a good target.

The good news is that my wallet is similar to this:

No cash involved!

[owine]

Just wanted to share that a passback fare using Ventra and a 30 day pass works as it did with the Chicago Card Plus. I now have a $-2.25 balance on my Ventra account for the passback L ride.