Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[ctrabs74]

That's not a penalty, since he never bought an annual ticket.

The only analogy here is the Illinois Tollway, which says on its Pay a Toll Violation page that an I-Pass or EZ-Pass violator can avoid a violation by paying "only the cash rate for toll." under certain circumstances. The cash rate is twice the I-Pass rate for passenger cars. If you don't do what they say, you also have to pay the penalty in the notice.

To the extent Metra is analogous, if you don't have a ticket when you board the train, you pay the cash fare for the applicable zone plus a $3 service charge, unless an agent was not at the boarding station. Conductors do not charge 1/44 of a monthly ticket.

Which is standard at most "traditional" railroads (ie. Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit, MBTA, etc.), though the service charge would also apply if there's a functioning ticket vending machine at a station.

[Busjack]

Which is standard at most "traditional" railroads (ie. Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit, MBTA, etc.), though the service charge would also apply if there's a functioning ticket vending machine at a station.

I think that the latter applies on the Metra Electric, which sill has the vending machines, but not the fare barriers.

[busfan2847]

That's not a penalty, since he never bought an annual ticket.

He did before 2008 and 5 days after being caught. By being caught it has cost him £20,000 more than if he had bought the ticket he had been doing previously. The train company has saved the time and cost of taking him to court to get anything more from him.

[jajuan]

Ventra website is now upgraded to show the time an unlimited pass on the card expires in addition to the date. I noticed it Thursday when I loaded a new pass on my card. I know BusHunter and I believe sw had raised the issue of them not showing the time passes expire. Also pass reload options are now given as "Add one-time pass" and "Add pass with autoload".

[ctrabs74]

I think that the latter applies on the Metra Electric, which sill has the vending machines, but not the fare barriers.

From Metra's web site:

An extra $3 is charged when a cash fare is paid on the train, except from a station at which no ticket agent or vending machine is available.

[jajuan]

New notices are now out at rail stations. Chicago Cards and CCP won't work starting June 1st nor can they be reloaded starting May 1st which is next Thursday. Transit cards and any other mag stripe cards won't be accepted after July 1st. New ones sold at rail stations will no longer be issued starting May 1st. Starting on that date up until June 1st, the only thing you can do is reload transit cards you already have in your possession. Reloads for mag stripe cards end June 1st.

[Amtrak41]

"Which is standard at most "traditional" railroads (ie. Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit, MBTA, etc.), though the service charge would also apply if there's a functioning ticket vending machine at a station."

SEPTA has very few TVM's and ticket agents. Nonetheless, the on-board surcharge applies regardless.

[Busjack]

"Which is standard at most "traditional" railroads (ie. Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit, MBTA, etc.), though the service charge would also apply if there's a functioning ticket vending machine at a station."

SEPTA has very few TVM's and ticket agents. Nonetheless, the on-board surcharge applies regardless.

Although regular commuters on Metra use monthlies,Metra assumes a certain number of casual riders, and usually keeps the outlying stations staffed in the morning. I assume (like the stink when the discount was eliminated on 10 ride tickets and passengers stopped buying them) that there would be a stink if the surcharge were applied even if the station agent was not available, the only alternative then being Ticket by Mail.

[Amtrak41]

NJT nails you a $3 fee for a pass by mail

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

A friendly reminder: Magnetic fare cards now cannot be bought, and Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus cannot be reloaded.

[Busjack]

The Tribune is having some fun with #AskVentra tweets.

The real question is which is more preferable:

• Nasty tweets on subject?
• Goofing with the hash tag by asking Ventra to answer personal and philosophic questions?*

At this point, I vote for #2.

I see in the 4:30 p.m. update Tammy Propogandist Chase is claiming that the hashtag is accomplishing something. I guess anything to occupy the "work" day.

*Probably, the best one, based on the goose chase on 80-94 yesterday at this time is:

Would you rather fight one giraffe-sized goose, or 100 goose-sized giraffes? #AskVentra

[Busjack]

Slightly related: this story via Yahoo! Finance that U.S. credit cards will be converted to Ventra type technology, because of the Target mess. Of course, even though the data would be on the server instead of the magnetic stripe, I wonder if hackers could still hack it. In any event, another reason not to tap your wallet.

[Kevin]

Slightly related: this story via Yahoo! Finance that U.S. credit cards will be converted to Ventra type technology, because of the Target mess. Of course, even though the data would be on the server instead of the magnetic stripe, I wonder if hackers could still hack it. In any event, another reason not to tap your wallet.

Not exactly. These are two different technologies.

Ventra uses contactless, RFID-based chips that are no more secure than a mag stripe.

The European-style EMV chip cards that will ultimately replace the magnetic stripe are contact chips. This is what they look like. The cards must be physically inserted into a reader while the user enters either a PIN or signature.

EMV cards can also include a contactless chip, but that's still separate from the contact EMV chip.

[Busjack]

Not exactly. These are two different technologies.

Ventra uses contactless, RFID-based chips that are no more secure than a mag stripe.

The European-style EMV chip cards that will ultimately replace the magnetic stripe are contact chips. This is what they look like. The cards must be physically inserted into a reader while the user enters either a PIN or signature.

EMV cards can also include a contactless chip, but that's still separate from the contact EMV chip.

The impression I got, from the article mentioning "For the record, there are already several cards with chip technology available to Americans, from American Express and JPMorgan Chase among other institutions" that by listing Chase, they were referring to the technology in that card, already accepted by Ventra, McDonald's, Produce World, and, surprisingly some Pepsi machines (those $3 tabs for Muscle Milk sure add up).

But since the article did mention Europe, that would appear to mean that not just 90% of merchants would have to change terminals, but 100% would, unless the terminals with the wave symbol can read both types of chips, but, since you say that the European ones have to be inserted into a slot, the various companies I mentioned apparently have already banked on obsolete technology.

Also, the impression I got from articles about the Target breach was not so much that the hackers hacked the cards, but that somehow they installed malware on the readers to "scrape" the data before it was encoded and sent to the server. I would assume that in the RFID case, the only thing sent to the server would be the ID of the chip.

From the illustration, is the card similar to the one they tell you to insert into the touch screen voting machine if you early vote? The two look about the same. Obviously, the chip in the voting card is reprogrammable.

[Kevin]

But since the article did mention Europe, that would appear to mean that not just 90% of merchants would have to change terminals, but 100% would, unless the terminals with the wave symbol can read both types of chips, but, since you say that the European ones have to be inserted into a slot, the various companies I mentioned apparently have already banked on obsolete technology.

Most terminals issued within the last few years are EMV-ready, but the slots are not necessarily enabled yet. If look closely at a newer card terminal, you may see a slot at the bottom that accepts EMV cards.

Also, the impression I got from articles about the Target breach was not so much that the hackers hacked the cards, but that somehow they installed malware on the readers to "scrape" the data before it was encoded and sent to the server. I would assume that in the RFID case, the only thing sent to the server would be the ID of the chip.

A contactless chip transmits the full credit card number in the same way as a magnetic stripe. I've heard various arguments on whether or not EMV would have actually prevented the Target hack. Had everyone been on EMV, it would have at least made it very difficult to create phony credit cards with the stolen numbers.

From the illustration, is the card similar to the one they tell you to insert into the touch screen voting machine if you early vote? The two look about the same. Obviously, the chip in the voting card is reprogrammable.

Similar function, in the sense that the card must remain in the unit until the transaction is complete.

[Busjack]

....

Similar function, in the sense that the card must remain in the unit until the transaction is complete.

That's really going to delay transactions, as even ATMs now assume that you just swipe and take your card while the ATM otherwise does its business. The ATM card cloners won't have to install fake slots over the card slot, but just wait for you to insert, and then get out their guns (or in the case of N. Western Ave., an ax).

Can you imagine waiting for a gas pump to complete a transaction?

On the terminal picture, that's the kind I have seen in most independent food stores lately, so I'll have to take a closer look.

[Busjack]

...Man, did you see the lines on Monday and Tuesday at the Ventra machines at the "L" stations. Most were four to five deep and the CA was constantly answering questions. One even brought a chair over. ..

If one is to believe the CTA statements that 90% of card rides are on Ventra, that shouldn't have been the case. Undoubtedly there are procrastinators, but it shouldn't have been to that extent.

Hence, I tend not to believe the statements.

[jajuan]

Well tomorrow is the big day guys. This is the last day that mag stripe cards will be accepted on CTA. Come tomorrow, Ventra cards and RFID debit and credit cards will be the only cards accepted for fare payments. I noticed last week that CTA put up notices at the rail stations listing the closest Jewel, Walgreen's, currency exchange and other Ventra retailer close to that particular station for riders who've procrastinated in getting a Ventra card so they can possibly avoid any potentially long lines at the station Ventra vending machines.

[TripleTransit1]

This is it. Today's the day. RIP Magnetic stripe cards (1997-2014).

[Ratjeev]

I'll be travelling to Chicago again soon. My last visit a year or so ago using mag stripe cards. My question is will a 7 day ventra card cost $28 or $33 ($28 + $5) when bought at the vending machine. If I order a card beforehand on ventra's website, will the 7 days start on the 1st tap? Sorry if these questions sound dumb as I can't find the exact answer on CTA or Ventra's websites. Thanks in advance.

[Busjack]

I'll be travelling to Chicago again soon. My last visit a year or so ago using mag stripe cards. My question is will a 7 day ventra card cost $28 or $33 ($28 + $5) when bought at the vending machine. If I order a card beforehand on ventra's website, will the 7 days start on the 1st tap? Sorry if these questions sound dumb as I can't find the exact answer on CTA or Ventra's websites. Thanks in advance.

The answer seems to be put $28 on it, register it, and after it is registered, use the $28 to buy a pass. Otherwise, pay the $33, and get $5 of transit value back when you register it.

Either way, it is a cumbersome, multistep process.

Also, the first tap should start the 7 days.

__________

An aside, your question seems to assume that there is a specific card called a Ventra 7 day pass. There is only one Ventra card, but it can have various types of transit accounts associated with it, including passes and pay per ride.

[Kevin]

I'll be travelling to Chicago again soon. My last visit a year or so ago using mag stripe cards. My question is will a 7 day ventra card cost $28 or $33 ($28 + $5) when bought at the vending machine. If I order a card beforehand on ventra's website, will the 7 days start on the 1st tap? Sorry if these questions sound dumb as I can't find the exact answer on CTA or Ventra's websites. Thanks in advance.

There's no $5 card fee if purchased from Ventra's web site. I recommend that out of town visitors order Ventra cards from the web site in advance to avoid the fee, unless they plan on using their own contactless bank card. (Although I recently discovered that Canadians are out of luck, as Ventra only ships to US addresses.)

[Busjack]

There's no $5 card fee if purchased from Ventra's web site. I recommend that out of town visitors order Ventra cards from the web site in advance to avoid the fee, unless they plan on using their own contactless bank card. (Although I recently discovered that Canadians are out of luck, as Ventra only ships to US addresses.)

That's because ordering it on the website registers it, while just buying it from a machine or a merchant does not.

Of course, using the website depends on whether they will ship the card to Ratjeev in time to use it.

[MarioM]

I'll be travelling to Chicago again soon. My last visit a year or so ago using mag stripe cards. My question is will a 7 day ventra card cost $28 or $33 ($28 + $5) when bought at the vending machine. If I order a card beforehand on ventra's website, will the 7 days start on the 1st tap? Sorry if these questions sound dumb as I can't find the exact answer on CTA or Ventra's websites. Thanks in advance.

The $5 fee is waived for Ventra card purchases by phone, over the web, and at Ventra retailers through 7/7/14. It is not waived at Ventra vending machines.

The 7-day period starts running when you first use the pass, not when you buy it.

[MarioM]

There's no $5 card fee if purchased from Ventra's web site. I recommend that out of town visitors order Ventra cards from the web site in advance to avoid the fee, unless they plan on using their own contactless bank card. (Although I recently discovered that Canadians are out of luck, as Ventra only ships to US addresses.)

Only until 7/7. Unless they extend it, after that point they will make you pay the $5 fee in addition to whatever pass or transit value you order, but immediately credit your account for $5 since you have to register it.

The issue of foreign credit cards is interesting. Some foreign cards no longer have magnetic stripes, which means that the Ventra vending machines can't read them and so foreign visitors can't use them to pay for a Ventra card or ticket. Plus if you pay with a credit card, the machines demand that you enter a zip code, which people outside of the United States won't have. I've received reports from someone from Canada that entering a random number works for them and from someone from the UK that it doesn't. It might depend more on the issuer of the card than the country.

I haven't been able to determine whether foreign contactless bank cards will work at Ventra card readers. It is my understanding that while the EMV (Chip & PIN) cards can be equipped with Paywave or a similar contactless feature, the data transmission standard it uses is different than the US cards.