2200 Trainroom At 61st Tagged by Paint Vanadals

[sw4400]

These rail cars still might be needed if there are more issues with the 5000's

The 2200's are already 45% gone with 68 units scrapped. These cars are only so expendable as far as usefulness which is quickly running out. That's one of the reasons the Blue Line holds them in so often and only uses them on occasion. If anything, they might be able to buy some loaners from another transit agency like they did with the M.A.N Articulateds from Seattle Metro before the NABI junks rolled in here(maybe some units manufactured in the late 1970's or in the 1980's, maybe even the 1990's). But the only way the 5000's will be removed from service is if a serious defect comes up(e.g: a component that could cause derailment, brake issue, etc...). CTA might have this idea being mulled around if something serious comes up requiring an immediate removal of all 5000's from service for a safety-related issue like the trucks before this. This is an annoying issue as now the CTA will have to rotate basically all of their current stock of Bombardier railcars out of service in groups for this in-house repair, as 240 of 250, or 96% of our current Bombardier fleet, need to be repaired. Not putting up any brownie points with the CTA here...

[Busjack]

.... If anything, they might be able to buy some loaners from another transit agency like they did with the M.A.N Articulateds from Seattle....

Problem is a bus is a bus, but most RT cars are custom. Somehow SEPTA was able to use some CTA cars, but in most cases the clearances don't match, since CTA cars are smaller than usual, and a larger car can't be used given such things as the curves in the Loop.

[mkohut]

Problem is a bus is a bus, but most RT cars are custom. Somehow SEPTA was able to use some CTA cars, but in most cases the clearances don't match, since CTA cars are smaller than usual, and a larger car can't be used given such things as the curves in the Loop.

The only route that i can see close to use other transit equipment would be the Red Line if they straighten out the curve at the Sheridan station.

[jajuan]

The only route that i can see close to use other transit equipment would be the Red Line if they straighten out the curve at the Sheridan station.

If CTA railcars are smaller than usual compared to those of other systems, that still wouldn't address the clearance issue that Busjack brought up.

[trainman8119]

Be that as it may, my point still stands that it's doubtful CTA is going to let the graffiti stay despite those cars' age. Some of us can be flippant but the smart employer still at least gives the appearance of caring about employee morale.

...in a dream world

[chicagopcclcar]

The 61st St switchmen park a "quad" next to the 2200s, making viewing impossible. Just letting you know I'm checking.

[sw4400]

The 61st St switchmen park a "quad" next to the 2200s, making viewing impossible. Just letting you know I'm checking.

You're going to have to be specific on what this is. Commonly, a quad is a slang for an ATV 4-Wheeler nowadays. I highly doubt you mean this, because it should be easy to see a 2200-Series railcar past a ATV.

[chicagopcclcar]

You're going to have to be specific on what this is. Commonly, a quad is a slang for an ATV 4-Wheeler nowadays. I highly doubt you mean this, because it should be easy to see a 2200-Series railcar past a ATV.

If it's parked next to a pair of 'L' cars by a switchman, it's obviously a what......Well, what does a switchman do.....

And the cars we are talking about are in a train yard on an elevated structure, how does an ATV get into the discussion? Obviously you missed that this was a teaching situation....an opportunity to teach transit-interested folk about some of the jargon of the business.

Well guess what....I'm not going to spoil the ending. No, I am not going to give an explanation. I think I've provided enough clues and based upon the most basic information you should already know about the 'L' cars we've talked about, the solution should now be easy. A quad is.........

[sw4400]

Doing a search under "quad railroad terminology", this is what comes up via Ask.com:

other term for a speeder, a motorized vehicle used for maintenance of ways on railroads

So this is my guess based on terminology I found online. I guess I'll have to go with this definition for Quad.

[BusHunter]

They'll probably graffiti the quad next.

[chicagopcclcar]

They'll probably graffiti the quad next.

Clever...LOL. Teacher notes student answered using a response that doesn't evidence he knows what a quad is. But student is gramatically correct. Give him a C plus.

Guys, I hope you're having fun with this.

[BusHunter]

Clever...LOL. Teacher notes student answered using a response that doesn't evidence he knows what a quad is. But student is gramatically correct. Give him a C plus.

Guys, I hope you're having fun with this.

It means a four car train. You don't think I know that.

[chicagopcclcar]

Doing a search under "quad railroad terminology", this is what comes up via Ask.com:

other term for a speeder, a motorized vehicle used for maintenance of ways on railroads

So this is my guess based on terminology I found online. I guess I'll have to go with this definition for Quad.

Teacher notes that student evidently has internet database access....wow, why did he do so much research when all the clues were at hand. Well, I can't send him to detention....I'll sign his permission field trip slip for the effort.

[chicagopcclcar]

If it's parked next to a pair of 'L' cars by a switchman, it's obviously a what......Well, what does a switchman do.....

And the cars we are talking about are in a train yard on an elevated structure, how does an ATV get into the discussion? Obviously you missed that this was a teaching situation....an opportunity to teach transit-interested folk about some of the jargon of the business.

Well guess what....I'm not going to spoil the ending. No, I am not going to give an explanation. I think I've provided enough clues and based upon the most basic information you should already know about the 'L' cars we've talked about, the solution should now be easy. A quad is.........

Switchmen generally work in yards. Even when its rush hour and max number of trains and cars are out on the road, there are still cars in the yard. Why?

Some may be bad ordered. Others are spares. Runs are coming into the terminal with doors cut out, blue lights, red suspension, BO roll signs, poor AC, flat wheels, no PA, brakes cut out, what's a switchman to do?

Only two cars of the eight car train are bad. Switchman breaks the springs, uncouples the bad car, lays it up. Gets another from the spares, reassembles the eight car train and puts it back into service. One car was bad, how many were laid up? That's right, two, because all CTA cars are married pairs. Articulated equipment would take out more. NYC has four car and five car married sets. We don't. The two cars are called a "deuce."

The 2200 deuce at 61st can be hidden behind the spares on the next track. Two deuces would make a "double" or a "quad," So easy. You guys do too much overthinking.......KISS!!!

Hope you had fun, though.

[chicagopcclcar]

It means a four car train. You don't think I know that.

OK, student evidently wanted to keep the mystery going and not reveal the answer. Your grade will be changed. Congrats.

[jajuan]

...in a dream world

I know a lot of people have a CTA does everything wrong mentality, but whatever other legitimate faults any of us may have pointed out in large part due to the overly political setup of the transit boards on this one I can't help feed that do everything wrong sentiment. My point stands. 74th, 77th, Chicago and Kedzie garages are all located in areas with high gang activity and we'd have reports that all four are tagged all over with graffiti if CTA didn't want to at least give some appearance it was concerned with worker morale. Heck I lived near Kedzie during a large part of both my childhood and a good chunk of my adult life. And yes I saw it get tagged, but I never saw the graffiti stay more than a few days at most. They haven't yet removed the graffiti from the 2200s at 61st. However they have at least still proven part of my point by hiding the graffiti from view. For now they're putting up the appearances in a different manner than I proposed. The question becomes now whether the vandals tag the quad too as Bushunter mentioned as a joke but is still a serious possibility as I've seen a few 5000s on the Red Line tagged.

[chicagopcclcar]

My hat's off to you Jajuan and you are so right....there is a pervasive mentality here that "the CTA does everything wrong." Of course the CTA is not alone in this, just monitor some transit boards in other cities. The board I enjoy the most is SubChat, centered on NYC. I only wish Chicago had the same activity, negative or otherwise, at least there's always a hot discussion going on over there.

The graffiti may already be removed or the removal is pending. I can't tell because if any spare 5000s are parked on the adjacent track, the 2200 deuce can't be seen.

[sw4400]

The graffiti may already be removed or the removal is pending. I can't tell because if any spare 5000s are parked on the adjacent track, the 2200 deuce can't be seen...

Or maybe they parked spare railcars there because they aren't going to remove the tagging. Given these cars are 43-44 years old and their retirement is pending, cleaning off the graffiti is not top priority of the CTA. The purpose of these railcars is to be a Switchman's Locker Room/Breakroom. They've been converted for this purpose already and probably have had a lot of their seats removed to make room for tables, lockers, vending machines, refrigerator and microwave. These units will not be seeing anymore revenue service and will most likely be scrapped when this project is over.

I remember seeing WB-2 when a Flyer D901 was assigned as it. That bus had graffiti on it, but the Ironworkers still used it. I didn't see the tagging ever removed.

jajuan said some of the 5000's on the Red Line are tagged. Now those railcars will have the graffiti removed as they are revenue cars that will see service for a long time.

[chicagopcclcar]

Or maybe they parked spare railcars there because they aren't going to remove the tagging. Given these cars are 43-44 years old and their retirement is pending, cleaning off the graffiti is not top priority of the CTA. The purpose of these railcars is to be a Switchman's Locker Room/Breakroom. They've been converted for this purpose already and probably have had a lot of their seats removed to make room for tables, lockers, vending machines, refrigerator and microwave. These units will not be seeing anymore revenue service and will most likely be scrapped when this project is over.

I remember seeing WB-2 when a Flyer D901 was assigned as it. That bus had graffiti on it, but the Ironworkers still used it. I didn't see the tagging ever removed.

jajuan said some of the 5000's on the Red Line are tagged. Now those railcars will have the graffiti removed as they are revenue cars that will see service for a long time.

Ye have little faith.

[trainman8119]

I don't have doubt that CTA might want to remove graffiti, I have doubt that CTA gives a damn about workers morale.

On another point, though, while riding the Swift yesterday there was a set of 2600s with a good amount of art work, if you want to call it that. They were damaged as the front of one of the cars had tape and a whole mess of stuff holding the front window together. My guess is that they were tagged in the Skokie yard.

[sw4400]

I don't have doubt that CTA might want to remove graffiti, I have doubt that CTA gives a damn about workers morale.

On another point, though, while riding the Swift yesterday there was a set of 2600s with a good amount of art work, if you want to call it that. They were damaged as the front of one of the cars had tape and a whole mess of stuff holding the front window together. My guess is that they were tagged in the Skokie yard.

I don't doubt the CTA wouldn't want to remove graffiti, either. But it is a expensive process, as you have to purchase the chemical solvent and/or hire a company that can safely remove it without damaging the car body, plus if windows were tagged, they might have to be replaced totally as it might be difficult to remove tagging from windows. Throw in the fact that we're talking about a car manufactured in 1969-1970 that will most likely be retired when this Dan Ryan project is done, and you have to wonder if the CTA would really spend any amount of money, big or small, to remove the tagging. That might explain the extra train cars parked next to them. They simply block the other cars from being seen and no money is required to remove any unsightly tagging.

Now the 2600-Series you mention will have the tagging removed if it's returning to service. Your report of one car having tape and a whole mess of stuff holding a front window together make me wonder what happened to that car.

Here's an example of Non-Revenue Equipment being used with tagging. Granted, it's not much, but it's still there... CTA never did remove it. Also note the deplorable condition of the Flyer: Dirty, missing a bumper. Just an example showing how CTA really doesn't put much money into equipment due to be retired soon.

[BusHunter]

What would CTA use for a trainroom if they did remove the graffiti? It probably wouldn't be done on site. Here's an idea, why don't they just get another retired pair and take these to Skokie Shops to send to the scrapper?

[ctrabs74]

What would CTA use for a trainroom if they did remove the graffiti? It probably wouldn't be done on site. Here's an idea, why don't they just get another retired pair and take these to Skokie Shops to send to the scrapper?

Probably because, from what others are reporting, the tagged cars have already been retrofit for non-revenue use. From the sounds of it, I doubt CTA would be willing to retrofit another set of 2200s as trainrooms shortly after the first set of cars were done.

[chicagopcclcar]

What would CTA use for a trainroom if they did remove the graffiti? It probably wouldn't be done on site. Here's an idea, why don't they just get another retired pair and take these to Skokie Shops to send to the scrapper?

You don't know how ridiculous you're sounding. Have you seen graffiti stay on CTA rail cars, CTA stations and platforms, CTA sub stations, CTA walls on inclines, CTA signal huts, CTA embankment walls.....NO. They get it removed. It's removed on site. Where do you figure cars have to go to Skokie Shops for graffiti removal. Its removed in the line's yard. They even remove graffiti on private property when it can only be reached from CTA property. Or they can paint over it. That's why paint criminals describe the CTA as being "clean." "Clean" means the agency makes every attempt to remove graffiti in due course. What money and expenses....you don't think they have these removal materials on hand already? You don't think they have personnel already? And you base your opinion on out of service buses used by iron workers. Those buses sit all day and all night at the work site and are an immediate target. Of course they're never cleaned.

As for taking the deuce to Skokie, its wired in at its present location. I don't know if it has plumbing and running water. Its outfitted with stairways, the trolley shoes are tied up. Lastly have you seen it? Take a ride on a Cottage Grove Green line train and see for yourself. That'll give you a chance to check out the Garfield facilities and the manned 59th St. junction. Another thing to watch for is the "no eight cars" sign at Cottage Grove. If they put your train in the south pocket at Cottage Grove, you can also check out the NB berth markers on the north platform. That's a big joke...where is a NB train going to come from??? University?? Dorchester?? Maybe Stony Island.

[sw4400]

You don't know how ridiculous you're sounding. Have you seen graffiti stay on CTA rail cars, CTA stations and platforms, CTA sub stations, CTA walls on inclines, CTA signal huts, CTA embankment walls.....NO.

True... but those are in service/revenue parts of the CTA you are talking about here. Of course they're going to keep those as clean and tagged-free as possible.

And you base your opinion on out of service buses used by iron workers. Those buses sit all day and all night at the work site and are an immediate target. Of course they're never cleaned.

I think you're wrong here. The Ironworkers buses don't sit all day and night at the work sites. I've visually seen Flyers and Flxibles at work sites in the past during the daytime, and when the work is done for the day, they drive them back to the storage area they are parked at.

These 2200's are out of service railcars used by Switchmen as a locker room/breakroom. I doubt they will clean a 44-year old railcar up that's going to be scrapped and waste supplies and manpower that could be used to clean revenue service railcars, stations, platforms, substations, walls on inclines, signal huts and embankment walls. Have you seen IRM's 2000-Series railcars that have been tagged? They look pretty bad and attempting removal just caused significant damage to their paint scheme so IRM just left them alone.

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