BusHunter Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Waiting for the CTA's electric bus experiment, I stumbled across a few pdf's about the Ballard fuel cell bus experiment, the #5900's. It's actually kind of interesting, It talks about the 3 year experiment together with Vancouver. Some of the highlights include showing the hydrogen fuel island at Chicago garage, pictures of the fleet, #5900-02 together in one shot. It also talks about the transportation of the hydrogen fuel from Air Products Inc. in Canada, over 300 miles away. Well here they are: http://ieahia.org/pdfs/vancouver_chicago.pdf This basically goes over the entire project and the infrastructure that had to be put in place at Chicago garage for the experiment. http://www.netinform.net/h2/h2stations/H2StationsDetail.aspx?ID=135 This one shows pictures of the fuel island. http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/11000/11000/11099/articles-35634_cleaning_up.pdf This one reviews the performance of the experiment with a few more #5900 pictures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Waiting for the CTA's electric bus experiment, I stumbled across a few pdf's about the Ballard fuel cell bus experiment, the #5900's. It's actually kind of interesting, It talks about the 3 year experiment together with Vancouver. Some of the highlights include showing the hydrogen fuel island at Chicago garage, pictures of the fleet, #5900-02 together in one shot. It also talks about the transportation of the hydrogen fuel from Air Products Inc. in Canada, over 300 miles away. ... That was interesting. Besides the transport of the hydrogen in essentially Thermos bottle trucks, I noted: Due to weight restrictions, those buses could only transport 40 passengers, as opposed to 70 passengers on a standard bus, hence, no standees. The report said that passengers waited to try the fuel cell buses, unfortunately that was about 10-12 years before Bus Tracker. Can't fuel during thunderstorms, or you might have had the Hindenburg. The metric measures are hard to figure out, but that's science. The question to anyone working in Chicago Garage: Is the fueling island still there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 That was interesting. Besides the transport of the hydrogen in essentially Thermos bottle trucks, I noted: Due to weight restrictions, those buses could only transport 40 passengers, as opposed to 70 passengers on a standard bus, hence, no standees. The report said that passengers waited to try the fuel cell buses, unfortunately that was about 10-12 years before Bus Tracker. Can't fuel during thunderstorms, or you might have had the Hindenburg. The metric measures are hard to figure out, but that's science. The question to anyone working in Chicago Garage: Is the fueling island still there? I wonder if these buses were shut down during Thunderstorms or days were storms were predicted. I imagine if a lightning bolt struck the fuel cell on top, the same might happen, except with an operator and passengers on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I was reading they shelled out 29 million in Chicago garage improvements including explosive proof fixtures and roof modifications. Why not just build a structure to house the 3 buses on Chicago garage land? I wonder if there's any hydrogen left in the ones at south shops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I was reading they shelled out 29 million in Chicago garage improvements including explosive proof fixtures and roof modifications. Why not just build a structure to house the 3 buses on Chicago garage land? I wonder if there's any hydrogen left in the ones at south shops? They're pretty much stripped and should be scrapped someday soon... I think CTA took parts from the shells and applied them to the 5800's when they were in service and needed parts, since they were pretty much identical. The hydrogen is probably gone by now. These vehicles probably don't even run anymore or drive. To fix just one up to be operable would probably cost more than the bus is worth now(it's 17 years old). Also, New Flyer discontinued the 40LF bus model just shortly after 2029 rolled off the assembly line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Wow, I wouldn't thought that the 5900s were going to be brought up today because I just took some shots of them. Enjoy guys even though it was difficult to capture them through a fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Wow, I wouldn't thought that the 5900s were going to be brought up today because I just took some shots of them. Enjoy guys even though it was difficult to capture them through a fence. Sadly, as I said... they are shells now. The two on the left(5900 and 5902???) are pretty much picked clean of window frames and other parts that probably went to the 5800's. Some parts could've been used on a few 1000's perhaps... they are pretty much identical D40LF's to the 5800's, just newer buses. The one on the right which I guess is 5901 looks slightly better, but I'm sure is missing parts too. Why the CTA is continuing to keep these shells is beyond me... the Ballard program ended around 2000. My only feasible speculation is for parts only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sadly, as I said... they are shells now. The two on the left(5900 and 5902???) are pretty much picked clean of window frames and other parts that probably went to the 5800's. Some parts could've been used on a few 1000's perhaps... they are pretty much identical D40LF's to the 5800's, just newer buses. The one on the right which I guess is 5901 looks slightly better, but I'm sure is missing parts too. Why the CTA is continuing to keep these shells is beyond me... the Ballard program ended around 2000. My only feasible speculation is for parts only. 5900 is on the left, 5901 in the middle, and 5902 on the right. Sorry, I've forgot to label them . It's reasonable to keep them for parts but it's strange how they are weren't parked in that position when I went out there 10 days ago. They were parked parallel with the NABI's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Sadly, as I said... they are shells now. ... Some parts could've been used on a few 1000's perhaps... In that they have been in that condition, at least as far as I know based on personal observation, for at least 10 years, I really doubt it. Garmon documented that they keep moving in the yard, but there doesn't seem to be a reason. If Ballard wanted them back, I'm sure that's a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 In that they have been in that condition, at least as far as I know based on personal observation, for at least 10 years, I really doubt it. Garmon documented that they keep moving in the yard, but there doesn't seem to be a reason. If Ballard wanted them back, I'm sure that's a long time ago. The only thing I can think of about that is the decrease of the NABI's. I'm guessing to move the 5900s out the way in order to get rid of some NABI's. It's a little bit more spacious in the back because now it's about 50 NABI's left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 The only thing I can think of about that is the decrease of the NABI's. I'm guessing to move the 5900s out the way in order to get rid of some NABI's. It's a little bit more spacious in the back because now it's about 50 NABI's left. There was a solicitation to sell the employee parking lot on 79th and move the parking lot to the Perry side, but it doesn't look like any real estate investor bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 5900 is on the left, 5901 in the middle, and 5902 on the right. Sorry, I've forgot to label them . It's reasonable to keep them for parts but it's strange how they are weren't parked in that position when I went out there 10 days ago. They were parked parallel with the NABI's. It must be interesting to move them around. They need to be towed by a wrecker each time, and they need their drivetrains and brake lines disconnected, because without running, they have 0 psi in their airlines(air brakes will lock under 60 psi). Just sitting, the axles might be seized now too, so those wheels might not even turn, meaning they have to drag those buses from place to place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 In that they have been in that condition, at least as far as I know based on personal observation, for at least 10 years, I really doubt it. Garmon documented that they keep moving in the yard, but there doesn't seem to be a reason. If Ballard wanted them back, I'm sure that's a long time ago. I agree... I haven't a clue why these three are still on CTA property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 There was a solicitation to sell the employee parking lot on 79th and move the parking lot to the Perry side, but it doesn't look like any real estate investor bit. Maybe the employees didn't like the idea of it but who knows. When did this solicitation happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It must be interesting to move them around. They need to be towed by a wrecker each time, and they need their drivetrains and brake lines disconnected, because without running, they have 0 psi in their airlines(air brakes will lock under 60 psi). Just sitting, the axles might be seized now too, so those wheels might not even turn, meaning they have to drag those buses from place to place. Well well, I just learned something from you. Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to be moved around again. 5900 out of the 3 of them seems like a lot of parts has been taken apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Maybe the employees didn't like the idea of it but who knows. When did this solicitation happened? Was covered in this thread. Anyway, it had nothing to do with the employees, There was an indication in the addenda that somebody didn't want to pay the minimum bid to, essentially, extend the luxurious Forman Mills shopping center. The minimum bid included paying to pave the new parking lot. If someone eventually does, it would show up in the Finance Audit & Budget Committee Agenda on the Meetings and Agendas page. BTW, I suggest reading this on using Google to search this site more efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Was covered in this thread. Anyway, it had nothing to do with the employees, There was an indication in the addenda that somebody didn't want to pay the minimum bid to, essentially, extend the luxurious Forman Mills shopping center. The minimum bid included paying to pave the new parking lot. If someone eventually does, it would show up in the Finance Audit & Budget Committee Agenda on the Meetings and Agendas page. BTW, I suggest reading this on using Google to search this site more efficiently. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownliner Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 It must be interesting to move them around. They need to be towed by a wrecker each time, and they need their drivetrains and brake lines disconnected, because without running, they have 0 psi in their airlines(air brakes will lock under 60 psi). Just sitting, the axles might be seized now too, so those wheels might not even turn, meaning they have to drag those buses from place to place. Heavy duty wreckers are equipped to supply air to the towed vehicle, to keep the brakes functional on the towed vehicle. (useful when it weighs three times the wrecker does...) Wouldn't surprise me to learn the brakes are totally disengaged, though, and they just chock the wheels when they're done moving them. They're not going to go anywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Here's a very interesting Tribune article dated March 23, 2000 with an article from Hilkevitch about the Ballard Fuel Cell Buses. #5900-5902 were supposed to return to Ballard Power Systems of Canada after a ceremony at the Lakefront... what the heck happened with this??? Why did the buses instead stay with CTA to rust away at 77th/South Shops from 3/23/00 to today, where they still remain being towed around periodically throughout the lot by wreckers, since they have no more power to move on their own. Busjack, perhaps you know some insight to this... jajuan, BusHunter.... anyone with any insight, please shed some light on this one... I can't understand why, after a ceremony, they remained here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Actually, most of the time when something is moved around South Shops it is done with a large forklift - lift front up ad push/pull along. This is why quite often buses that have been out back a long time and have moved several times tend to have front end damage. Out on the street, a tow-in is done by attaching a towbar and if engine does not run an air line. If engine runs, it supplies air. The the wrecker helper gets to ride in the dead bus and steer it. Severely damaged ones would have front end hooked up and axle pulled. Years ago CTA had a extra-large wrecker (#300) that was capable of lifting a bus by clamping around the front tires like most auto-towing towtrucks do, but it has not been seen in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 In this case I don't really see CTA just scrapping them after the test period. As for the 5900s, I suppose that test didn't go too well in that they didn't see revenue service after the test period, and apparently Winnepeg didn't want them back. But back to our 700s, I wonder if these two buses could be "converted" to hybrid buses after the testing period? At 2.2 mil per, I think the 700s would be very expensive parts buses. Winnipeg has nothing to do with it. As the report cited by BusHunter at the top indicates, there were 3 buses to CTA and 3 to Vancouver. Unless you were implying that New Flyer wanted them back, but it appeared that this was a Ballard project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Winnipeg has nothing to do with it. As the report cited by BusHunter at the top indicates, there were 3 buses to CTA and 3 to Vancouver. Unless you were implying that New Flyer wanted them back, but it appeared that this was a Ballard project. I honestly don't know, Busjack. All I know was that the buses were supposed to be returned to Ballard Fuel Systems after a sendoff on 3/23/00 at Navy Pier. Obviously, Ballard went out of business, but you would've thought that the New Flyer 5900's would've been returned to Winnipeg before then since they were due to depart Chicago around this date rather than take up permanent residence at the 77th and Perry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I honestly don't know, Busjack. All I know was that the buses were supposed to be returned to Ballard Fuel Systems after a sendoff on 3/23/00 at Navy Pier. Obviously, Ballard went out of business, but you would've thought that the New Flyer 5900's would've been returned to Winnipeg before then since they were due to depart Chicago around this date rather than take up permanent residence at the 77th and Perry. Yes, you confirmed that it wasn't back to Manitoba.* No, Ballard is not out of business. It still has an active website. New Flyer and Ballard supplied fuel cell buses for the 2010 Winter Olympics. ISE may be out of business, but that doesn't mean everyone else is. *Ballard is in British Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Ok, but why after 3/23/00 did the fuel cell buses remain in Chicago rather than return where the article said they were going to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 My problem is that when are they supposed to be scrapped? It's indicated on the back of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.