Random Metra

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, strictures said:

When I was a kid, you could go directly from LaSalle St Station to the Loop L.  That connection needs to be brought back.

There also used to be a connection at Clunton/Lake and Oglivie Transportation Center .  That definitely needs to return.  Also CTA should have built a connection at Clinton to 567 W Lake.  

Finally, it would've been nice to connect Clinton Blue Line to Union Station ny extending the pedal that connects Union Station to the bus loading area on Jackson.

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Obviously rerouting SWS to RI tracks would derail your idea.  Funny that we've heard about plans to move SWS to RI tracks, but no word on when the spur that's necessary to reroute those trains will actually get built.

If you ride the Ashland branch of the Green line,  you can actually see the platform for the old station at 63rd and Lowe.   I believe the SWS at that time was the Norfolk and Western.   I believe that the station closed in the early 1970s, which would've coincided with the demographic transition of Englewood from predominately White to predominately Black.  Add to that the opening of the CTA Dan Ryan line with much faster and cheaper rail service caused ridership there to plummet.  If Dan Ryan service killed Englewood CTA ridership, imagine what happened to commuter ridership.

The connection to the RI is part of the CIP 74th street corridor project. So whenever they get the funds to untangle the bottlenecks along 74th the connection and switch to RI gets built along with a 3rd track on the RI line up to Gresham 

[NewFlyerMCI]

17 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Obviously rerouting SWS to RI tracks would derail your idea.  Funny that we've heard about plans to move SWS to RI tracks, but no word on when the spur that's necessary to reroute those trains will actually get built.

Yeah, I didn't remember that until I was typing and then I couldn't remember where the merge would be. 

17 hours ago, artthouwill said:

If you ride the Ashland branch of the Green line,  you can actually see the platform for the old station at 63rd and Lowe.   I believe the SWS at that time was the Norfolk and Western.   I believe that the station closed in the early 1970s, which would've coincided with the demographic transition of Englewood from predominately White to predominately Black.  Add to that the opening of the CTA Dan Ryan line with much faster and cheaper rail service caused ridership there to plummet.  If Dan Ryan service killed Englewood CTA ridership, imagine what happened to commuter ridership.

Funny part about that last statement in the recent infills getting built. 35th, and now Auburn Park. While 35th riders (on the RI) wouldn't be taking the Red Line otherwise, that Auburn Park station is a ~15 mins or less walk from the Red Line and yet it's getting built regardless

[strictures]

13 hours ago, artthouwill said:

There also used to be a connection at Clunton/Lake and Oglivie Transportation Center .  That definitely needs to return.  Also CTA should have built a connection at Clinton to 567 W Lake.  

Finally, it would've been nice to connect Clinton Blue Line to Union Station ny extending the pedal that connects Union Station to the bus loading area on Jackson.

The connection from Northwestern Station to the Clinton/Lake L station was called the Northwest Passage.  The problem with it was it removed Track 1 from the station.  What's needed is to rebuild it on the outside of the station wall on Clinton, which few would oppose, as the wall is just ugly & then the sidewalk would be arcaded & no more rain when you use it. 

As to the CTA connecting its HQ to the station, I too find it baffling.  The best way would be to connect through the ramp to the EB platform.  My guess is, they don't want the hassles of non-employees trying to enter that way.

[NovaBusFan]

On 10/5/2021 at 8:05 PM, artthouwill said:

There also used to be a connection at Clunton/Lake and Oglivie Transportation Center .  That definitely needs to return.  Also CTA should have built a connection at Clinton to 567 W Lake.  

Finally, it would've been nice to connect Clinton Blue Line to Union Station ny extending the pedal that connects Union Station to the bus loading area on Jackson.

I agree with you. CTA does need to connect to Metra at both Clinton stops, it’ll be easier access for those who takes Metra.

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/shelters-stations-fixtures-parking-lighting/press-release/21242514/metra-metra-approves-contract-to-rehab-blue-island-vermont-st-station

Didn't know Blue Island was slated for rehab

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/shelters-stations-fixtures-parking-lighting/press-release/21242514/metra-metra-approves-contract-to-rehab-blue-island-vermont-st-station

Didn't know Blue Island was slated for rehab

It would be nice if they could somehow connect the Blue Island ME station to it or extend the ME line closer to the station. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It would be nice if they could somehow connect the Blue Island ME station to it or extend the ME line closer to the station. 

I mean, people now can just cross the street? It's not even a walk. 

That said, I'm surprised Metra hasn't toyed with the idea of coordinating ME-BI trains with RI trains. Easy transfer for people to access CSU, Hyde Park, McCormick Pl, Soldier Field & Millennium Station. Additionally, I noticed there's a track connecting the RI tracks to the BI tracks. When the RI becomes electrified, a transfer for all that probably wouldn't be necessary, as select trains can just run thru. ME-BI would probably have to be double-tracked tho, although there's space for it in multiple areas.

Another solution that probably wouldn't require taking property would be to build a combined low floor/high floor platform for NB RI trains. Might have to curve the station and move the parking to the other side.

[NewFlyerMCI]

First time I’ve seen the predecessor livery for the UP lines, I never even knew they were getting one. I’d only heard about MD’s and RI’s locomotives. This seems to be one of the ex-Amtrak PS locos.

[strictures]

22 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

First time I’ve seen the predecessor livery for the UP lines, I never even knew they were getting one. I’d only heard about MD’s and RI’s locomotives. This seems to be one of the ex-Amtrak PS locos.

It just doesn't look right.  The C&NW had F units & a few B units that their Oelwein shop rebuilt into an A unit.

[NewFlyerMCI]

Metra either has begun or has added covered, enclosed shelters on the flag stop stations on the ME. They aren’t locked, nor do they have a locked mechanism (which is surprising, but welcome). No heat lamps though, but there is light at all times.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Metra either has begun or has added covered, enclosed shelters on the flag stop stations on the ME. They aren’t locked, nor do they have a locked mechanism (which is surprising, but welcome). No heat lamps though, but there is light at all times.

Need the heating lamps.

[strictures]

4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Metra either has begun or has added covered, enclosed shelters on the flag stop stations on the ME. They aren’t locked, nor do they have a locked mechanism (which is surprising, but welcome). No heat lamps though, but there is light at all times.

It sure looks like there's a lock cylinder in the door or is it a dummy cylinder?

[NewFlyerMCI]

38 minutes ago, strictures said:

It sure looks like there's a lock cylinder in the door or is it a dummy cylinder?

So the hole is there, but there’s no actual tumbler inside. Same for the other door.

 

50 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Need the heating lamps.

Agreed. My thought it they were concerned with a homeless person taking up residence. And also the fact that no one waits there for an extended period of time, I haven’t seen anytime waiting for a train on the platform itself for more than 10 mins.

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://metra.com/newsroom/metra-state-and-local-officials-break-ground-new-peterson-ridge-station

[strictures]

17 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://metra.com/newsroom/metra-state-and-local-officials-break-ground-new-peterson-ridge-station

A total waste of money.  There's no need for a station there, 30% of the land around it is Rosehill Cemetery & they don't use Metra.  The other three corners are occupied with senior housing & they may take it once a month.

There used to be two stations near there, one was Rosehill Cemetery, a beautiful structure, designed by WW Boyington, who also designed the Water Tower.  Boyington designed the Rosehill entrance gate & made the station look similar.  Closed around 1960 by the C&NW & then demolished by the railway around 1980.  All that's left is the stairs on the west side of the embankment.  The other station was Kenmore, at Ridge, which was just an old wooden platform, also torn down at the same time, which was when the C&NW closed dozen of stations in the city on all three lines.

The real reason is the former alderman Pat O'Connor wanted it because his wife has extensive real estate property nearby & the current alderman, Andre Vasquez lives maybe 200 feet from it.

[artthouwill]

33 minutes ago, strictures said:

A total waste of money.  There's no need for a station there, 30% of the land around it is Rosehill Cemetery & they don't use Metra.  The other three corners are occupied with senior housing & they may take it once a month.

There used to be two stations near there, one was Rosehill Cemetery, a beautiful structure, designed by WW Boyington, who also designed the Water Tower.  Boyington designed the Rosehill entrance gate & made the station look similar.  Closed around 1960 by the C&NW & then demolished by the railway around 1980.  All that's left is the stairs on the west side of the embankment.  The other station was Kenmore, at Ridge, which was just an old wooden platform, also torn down at the same time, which was when the C&NW closed dozen of stations in the city on all three lines.

The real reason is the former alderman Pat O'Connor wanted it because his wife has extensive real estate property nearby & the current alderman, Andre Vasquez lives maybe 200 feet from it.

To be honest,  I don't see why Metra's building stations in the city anyway.  This seems like an enormous amount of money to spend on a new station.  This station and the Auburn Park station seem to be a waste of time and money..

I actually think that ME should close some of ita inner city stations like Grand Crossing,  Avalon Park, 91st,  and 107th.  I'm for rehabbing useful stations in existence,  but I think Metra can be more efficient. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

A total waste of money.  There's no need for a station there, 30% of the land around it is Rosehill Cemetery & they don't use Metra.  The other three corners are occupied with senior housing & they may take it once a month.

There used to be two stations near there, one was Rosehill Cemetery, a beautiful structure, designed by WW Boyington, who also designed the Water Tower.  Boyington designed the Rosehill entrance gate & made the station look similar.  Closed around 1960 by the C&NW & then demolished by the railway around 1980.  All that's left is the stairs on the west side of the embankment.  The other station was Kenmore, at Ridge, which was just an old wooden platform, also torn down at the same time, which was when the C&NW closed dozen of stations in the city on all three lines.

The real reason is the former alderman Pat O'Connor wanted it because his wife has extensive real estate property nearby & the current alderman, Andre Vasquez lives maybe 200 feet from it.

 

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

To be honest,  I don't see why Metra's building stations in the city anyway.  This seems like an enormous amount of money to spend on a new station.  This station and the Auburn Park station seem to be a waste of time and money..

Well, there's supposed to be new development surrounding the site, so that'll help. And in Auburn Park's case, there's some new development already there and the Metra station can probably spur further development. Peterson-Ridge isn't a location I'd have chosen for a new station, but reading the comments on the r/Chicago subreddit, some of the people in the community are actually excited.

But, Metra building city stations (in the right areas) actually makes sense from a ridership perspective. A lot of their busier stations are ones that are located in the city in high density areas. There are many stations in the suburbs that'll never perform better than a low performing city station.  And an extra stop is not really gonna hurt. The big cost for these stations is building them, but upkeep is going to be minimal. Sure, the build cost is a lot, but these stations are going to last for decades, so it evens out over time imo. I think Metra would do better building more in the city (not that there's a lot of space left to do that), especially in area's where CTA is flagging. I think part of the reason the Evanston stops do so well is cause the Purple Line doesn't always go downtown. But the UPN always does, and has decent frequency even on weekends.

There's definitely some experimenting to do, but I think with the right factors, more of them can work. Reopening that 63rd station on SWS is an example of something that might work with the right investment,. Or a 35th/Archer stop on the HC could have great synergy with the Orange Line ala Jeff Pk or Evanston-Davis. A Central or Laramie stop on the UPW (while also closing Kedzie). A Bucktown stop on UPNW or Roscoe Village stop on UPN. Plenty of places where a city stop could be implemented and done well.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

Well, there's supposed to be new development surrounding the site, so that'll help. And in Auburn Park's case, there's some new development already there and the Metra station can probably spur further development. Peterson-Ridge isn't a location I'd have chosen for a new station, but reading the comments on the r/Chicago subreddit, some of the people in the community are actually excited.

But, Metra building city stations (in the right areas) actually makes sense from a ridership perspective. A lot of their busier stations are ones that are located in the city in high density areas. There are many stations in the suburbs that'll never perform better than a low performing city station.  And an extra stop is not really gonna hurt. The big cost for these stations is building them, but upkeep is going to be minimal. Sure, the build cost is a lot, but these stations are going to last for decades, so it evens out over time imo. I think Metra would do better building more in the city (not that there's a lot of space left to do that), especially in area's where CTA is flagging. I think part of the reason the Evanston stops do so well is cause the Purple Line doesn't always go downtown. But the UPN always does, and has decent frequency even on weekends.

There's definitely some experimenting to do, but I think with the right factors, more of them can work. Reopening that 63rd station on SWS is an example of something that might work with the right investment,. Or a 35th/Archer stop on the HC could have great synergy with the Orange Line ala Jeff Pk or Evanston-Davis. A Central or Laramie stop on the UPW (while also closing Kedzie). A Bucktown stop on UPNW or Roscoe Village stop on UPN. Plenty of places where a city stop could be implemented and done well.

I agree. Plus some of these suburbs could get some development which could help spread the density in the city because to be honest we’re slowly running out of room once the south and west sides get developed 

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

Well, there's supposed to be new development surrounding the site, so that'll help. And in Auburn Park's case, there's some new development already there and the Metra station can probably spur further development. Peterson-Ridge isn't a location I'd have chosen for a new station, but reading the comments on the r/Chicago subreddit, some of the people in the community are actually excited.

But, Metra building city stations (in the right areas) actually makes sense from a ridership perspective. A lot of their busier stations are ones that are located in the city in high density areas. There are many stations in the suburbs that'll never perform better than a low performing city station.  And an extra stop is not really gonna hurt. The big cost for these stations is building them, but upkeep is going to be minimal. Sure, the build cost is a lot, but these stations are going to last for decades, so it evens out over time imo. I think Metra would do better building more in the city (not that there's a lot of space left to do that), especially in area's where CTA is flagging. I think part of the reason the Evanston stops do so well is cause the Purple Line doesn't always go downtown. But the UPN always does, and has decent frequency even on weekends.

There's definitely some experimenting to do, but I think with the right factors, more of them can work. Reopening that 63rd station on SWS is an example of something that might work with the right investment,. Or a 35th/Archer stop on the HC could have great synergy with the Orange Line ala Jeff Pk or Evanston-Davis. A Central or Laramie stop on the UPW (while also closing Kedzie). A Bucktown stop on UPNW or Roscoe Village stop on UPN. Plenty of places where a city stop could be implemented and done well.

C&NW used to have stops on the West Line at Oak Park Ave, Austin, and Central.  I think the stairs are still there at Oak Park Ave.  

To me, the only in city development that might warrant a new Metra station is the Lincoln Yards development along the north branch of the Chicago River.  The UPN and UPW could build a station at the north end of the development while Clybourn is close enough to serve the south end.  This large mixed use, high density development could attract suburban workers that would have a viable option rather than driving and provide reverse commute options.  

Adding at 35th/Archer station doesn't make sense to me.   HC only had 3 rush trains in each direction and the Orange Line serves the area near Union Station. 

If Metra didn't have plans to reroute SWS to RI tracks, 63rd St could be a future option, but now the density isn't there 

There are some high performance inner city Metra stations.  They are in higher density areas (like the Hyde Park ME stations) or in areas with little or inconvenient CTA service(like Mars and Galewood on MD-W, Beverly branch on RI).  The MD-N and UPNW inner city stations help with the overcrowding of the Blue Line,  but those stations existed before CTA rail service was extended to Jefferson Park in 1970.

I understand that Metra's main suburban market has taken a major hit due to the pandemic and they are looking for other markets to tap into to increase ridership.  Unfortunately,  their system isn't set up to offer crosstown services that don't require a trip downtown.   Even CTA doesn't offer that, though it does provide a few transfer points outside of downtown.  Another thing that hurts both agencies is to be able to seamlessly transfer between the two agencies using Ventra.  I know you can buy a Metra ticket on Ventra,  but that's a separate transaction.   That's another topic.

[NewFlyerMCI]

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I actually think that ME should close some of ita inner city stations like Grand Crossing,  Avalon Park, 91st,  and 107th.  I'm for rehabbing useful stations in existence,  but I think Metra can be more efficient.

ME could definitely consolidate. 27th, 75th (shooting myself in the foot here lol), 83rd, 91st, 107th & 111th can all close, along with the entire Blue Island branch. South Shore branch has better numbers than I had suspected. It's strange to see 79th do so good on the main branch vs it's poor performance on the South Shore Line.

That being said, the ME would probably see an almost justifiable raise in ridership if trains ran more frequently. At least for the main branch, the ridership down line can support it, and the city stops are flag stops already. If trains came ever 30-45 mins during weekdays and better than the current every 60-120 minutes on weekends, they'd attract more riders; easier to do that when people can be opportunistic about taking the train rather than having to plan their day around it. 

[artthouwill]

4 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

ME could definitely consolidate. 27th, 75th (shooting myself in the foot here lol), 83rd, 91st, 107th & 111th can all close, along with the entire Blue Island branch. South Shore branch has better numbers than I had suspected. It's strange to see 79th do so good on the main branch vs it's poor performance on the South Shore Line.

That being said, the ME would probably see an almost justifiable raise in ridership if trains ran more frequently. At least for the main branch, the ridership down line can support it, and the city stops are flag stops already. If trains came ever 30-45 mins during weekdays and better than the current every 60-120 minutes on weekends, they'd attract more riders; easier to do that when people can be opportunistic about taking the train rather than having to plan their day around it. 

I wouldn't close 111th only because th city has rebuilt the Pullman site.  They just recently did a bike tour there.  This will be a tourist attraction and a one seat Metra ride to and from downtown would be a more attractive alternative to CTA.  I think the Blue Island branch would do better as an express from 111th as opposed to a shuttle to 115th and/or a local to downtown.   Perhaps the main line zones could skip Kensington station and let the Blue Island handle that station during peak hours.  

Not that it would ever happen,  but if CN would ever abandon its tracks north of 115th.  I would like to see a line branching off from the Red Line extension and run next to ME along that embankment.   In that scenario,  Metra would keep open 107th,  Chicago State,, 91st,Avalon,  and Grand Crossing and close 103rd, 87th and 79th and CTA open new stations there.  ME would also close 63rd, Hyde Park and 47th where CTA COULD also open stations.  After 47th, CTA could connect to the Green Line via the old Kenwood branch connection. 

Back to Peterson.   Since Rogers Park and Ravenswood seem to be busier stations,  could Metra be considering Peterson had a reliever for one or both stations?

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 Even CTA doesn't offer that, though it does provide a few transfer points outside of downtown.  Another thing that hurts both agencies is to be able to seamlessly transfer between the two agencies using Ventra.  I know you can buy a Metra ticket on Ventra,  but that's a separate transaction.   That's another topic.

I'm very surprised RTA hasn't pushed for complete Ventra integration with Metra yet. Especially with KeyCard in Philly and OMNY on NYC (and even Clipper card in SFO?). Very easy to equip stations and conductors with validators, especially since it's come to the point where Ventra cards can be added to mobile wallets and you can buy tickets from the app. Only thing they're missing aside from that are some combinations of a CTA/Pace/Metra Pass. MARC train in MD offers monthly pass holders a SmarTrip card that enables free transit on Metrobus, Metrorail, & RideOn for a surchage (for like ~$320/month for the Baltimore to DC zone)

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I wouldn't close 111th only because th city has rebuilt the Pullman site.  They just recently did a bike tour there.  This will be a tourist attraction and a one seat Metra ride to and from downtown would be a more attractive alternative to CTA.  I think the Blue Island branch would do better as an express from 111th as opposed to a shuttle to 115th and/or a local to downtown.   Perhaps the main line zones could skip Kensington station and let the Blue Island handle that station during peak hours.  

Not that it would ever happen,  but if CN would ever abandon its tracks north of 115th.  I would like to see a line branching off from the Red Line extension and run next to ME along that embankment.   In that scenario,  Metra would keep open 107th,  Chicago State,, 91st,Avalon,  and Grand Crossing and close 103rd, 87th and 79th and CTA open new stations there.  ME would also close 63rd, Hyde Park and 47th where CTA COULD also open stations.  After 47th, CTA could connect to the Green Line via the old Kenwood branch connection. 

Back to Peterson.   Since Rogers Park and Ravenswood seem to be busier stations,  could Metra be considering Peterson had a reliever for one or both stations?

Totally forgot about the new Pullman site. 

In the CN scenario, you're closing the station that see more ridership than the ones you're keeping open, unless that was on purpose. I made a ridership table to refer to here, using the 2018 boarding data from RTAMS

I don't think Peterson-Ridge is going to be a decent reliever, it's too far from either station, and the ridership for all three would be walk-ups or the small number who might show up from the bus (I've seen some UPN to 81 before)

[artthouwill]

15 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Totally forgot about the new Pullman site. 

In the CN scenario, you're closing the station that see more ridership than the ones you're keeping open, unless that was on purpose. I made a ridership table to refer to here, using the 2018 boarding data from RTAMS

I don't think Peterson-Ridge is going to be a decent reliever, it's too far from either station, and the ridership for all three would be walk-ups or the small number who might show up from the bus (I've seen some UPN to 81 before)

I chose the ME stations that intersects with CTA bus routes to close and be replaced with CTA stations for transfer purposes if CN were to abandon those tracks.  Otherwise I would keep those stations open and close the other ones, though I wonder about 83rd Avalon Oark..

@stricturesis most likely correct about Peterson being a political situation  though.  As long as there was work on the site. I'm surprised that ground breaking for the station is just now happening.