metra fare increases

[west towns]

Good idea to raise capital funds for improvements new cars and engines? Wonder if they will go with traditional bi level or something more passenger friendly like tri levels to eliminate the huge step up for passengers m. Remember the general population is getting older and the big step is often difficult

[Busjack]

Good idea to raise capital funds for improvements new cars and engines? Wonder if they will go with traditional bi level or something more passenger friendly like tri levels to eliminate the huge step up for passengers m. Remember the general population is getting older and the big step is often difficult

The don't have a 2015 budget posted on their budget page yet,so hard to tell.

However, if one accepts from the Pace budget that Metra has a $10 billion 10 year capital deficit just to stay in a state of good repair, there isn't going to be any more state bond money,* and Metra is under mandates for such things as positive train control that it has said it has no other way to fund, they are going to have to fund all that stuff through fares.

The thing you better fear is that if CTA is $21 billion in the hole for 10 year capital needs, and has already indebted itself with "sales tax revenue fund" bonds, bus leases, etc. how it is going to keep from having the system collapse without massive fare increases, not to mention trying to fund stuff like the Red Line to 130th.

Also, since the oldest cars are on the BNSF,which is also the best patronized route, don't expect any different kind of car. They can't run 20 car trains without blocking every grade crossing between Cicero and Aurora. If you are suggesting Bombardier bilevels, those really are crushable pop cans (as in Los Angeles). Other than that, the cars still will have to meet current height clearances and the like.

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*One would guess that the state obligated enough money for the remaining 80 electric cars, but that the RTA told Metra the same thing it told Pace, no more state money.

[MetroShadow]

Good idea to raise capital funds for improvements new cars and engines? Wonder if they will go with traditional bi level or something more passenger friendly like tri levels to eliminate the huge step up for passengers m. Remember the general population is getting older and the big step is often difficult

Where have Tri-levels worked?

I would like to see if they'll go with suitomo (sp?) or if it'll go with another company like bombardier. I think they want to keep a few to increase the spare ratio, but also expand and replace the fleet.

As for the increases, I honestly wished they've looked into this years ago, economy and/or Illinois Jobs Now Notwithstanding.

[west towns]

I just hate the big steps try it with a bum leg or in a cast or with luggage

[strictures]

The don't have a 2015 budget posted on their budget page yet,so hard to tell.

However, if one accepts from the Pace budget that Metra has a $10 billion 10 year capital deficit just to stay in a state of good repair, there isn't going to be any more state bond money,* and Metra is under mandates for such things as positive train control that it has said it has no other way to fund, they are going to have to fund all that stuff through fares.

The thing you better fear is that if CTA is $21 billion in the hole for 10 year capital needs, and has already indebted itself with "sales tax revenue fund" bonds, bus leases, etc. how it is going to keep from having the system collapse without massive fare increases, not to mention trying to fund stuff like the Red Line to 130th.

Also, since the oldest cars are on the BNSF,which is also the best patronized route, don't expect any different kind of car. They can't run 20 car trains without blocking every grade crossing between Cicero and Aurora. If you are suggesting Bombardier bilevels, those really are crushable pop cans (as in Los Angeles). Other than that, the cars still will have to meet current height clearances and the like.

_____________

*One would guess that the state obligated enough money for the remaining 80 electric cars, but that the RTA told Metra the same thing it told Pace, no more state money.

I see nothing wrong with changing over to the bilevels that LA uses for new design of the regular coaches. They load & unload much faster. That first step is far too high for a lot of people. In addition, I'm baffled as to why the platforms are so low at the downtown terminals. The platforms should be level with the bottom step as oversized freight cars aren't going to be rolling through there, with the rare exception of the three passing tracks at Union Station. The cars were crushed in LA due to the engineer texting & running a red on a single track line & being hit by a fast freight.

With positive train control coming, that should never be a problem.

The newest LA Metrolink cars are now rectangles, just like Metra's gallery cars, except for the new cab control cars, which have a nose for crush impact. But means they can't have any cab cars in the middle, because there's no way to cross between cars, as the cab car doesn't have a bulkhead door.

The best line to run these type of bilevels would be the UP North, as it has almost no freight traffic, except from Clybourn south to Augusta & from Lake Bluff north to Abbott, with some at Waukegan.

[Busjack]

....

The best line to run these type of bilevels would be the UP North, as it has almost no freight traffic, except from Clybourn south to Augusta & from Lake Bluff north to Abbott, with some at Waukegan.

Except that UP North has comparatively all new equipment, except for the reclaimed C&NW cars, and I thought part of the current order was getting a few more trailer cars to cover that.

While Metra has moved cars between lines, I certainly don't see them, in effect, moving about half of UP now has to BNSF, where the need is. Do you have a price tag for that?

[west towns]

How much can it cost for a few transfer moves? New cars most likely will be introduced on all lines to avoid title 6 compliance issues

[Busjack]

How much can it cost for a few transfer moves? New cars most likely will be introduced on all lines to avoid title 6 compliance issues

The trains are ADA compliant now. As trainman pointed out (and he works there) it is a rare situation when they have to open more than the one designated ADA car.

Since the current setup is ADA compliant, why don't you ask the conductor to drop the lift if you are have such problems? That's why it is there. You don't need a wheelchair to make such a request.

[strictures]

The trains are ADA compliant now. As trainman pointed out (and he works there) it is a rare situation when they have to open more than the one designated ADA car.

Since the current setup is ADA compliant, why don't you ask the conductor to drop the lift if you are have such problems? That's why it is there. You don't need a wheelchair to make such a request.

I don't need the lift [yet], but I'm still baffled why the platforms at the downtown terminals are so low. There's no logical reason for that, except that was the way they always did it, so they keep doing it. The downtown platforms should be level with the bottom step. Everywhere else, there might be clearance problems for some type of special freight car, but no freight cars go downtown & they certainly don't turn, except for the northernmost platform ends at Olgilvie.

[west towns]

What other system uses the metra type bilevels? Caltrains and vre?

[strictures]

What other system uses the metra type bilevels? Caltrains and vre?

From Wikipedia: "Montreal's Agence métropolitaine de transport, by Virginia Railway Express in Northern Virginia, by Nashville's Music City Star and by MARC Train in Maryland" all use bilevel gallery cars.

[west towns]

Maybe metra should do some passenger surveys and market research to get passenger input in what they want in a new car

[Busjack]

Maybe metra should do some passenger surveys and market research to get passenger input in what they want in a new car

Maybe one should figure out that the point of the announcement is to pay for the deficit just to get to a state of good repair and not a survey among the uninformed about their fantasies.

As I said before, the proposed 2015 budget isn't even posted yet. They certainly haven't advertised proposals for the next generation of cars.

[west towns]

Exactly why they need to get their market research work done

[Busjack]

Exactly why they need to get their market research work done

And what what it prove? That some foamer wants a DMU?

[west towns]

Or those steps from a 1950s designed car are really difficult for passengers to navigate

[Busjack]

Or those steps from a 1950s designed car are really difficult for passengers to navigate

At this point, doesn't have much effect on the need to identify a source of $3.5 million to replace each car.

[artthouwill]

I've never understood the concept that everyone can identify what is needed and what needs to be done, yet when it comes to paying for it, no one (especially the users and beneficiaries) don't want to pay for it. If we keep "taxing" the visitors and tourists. eventually they will stop coming to Chicago. Then what?

[Busjack]

I've never understood the concept that everyone can identify what is needed and what needs to be done, yet when it comes to paying for it, no one (especially the users and beneficiaries) don't want to pay for it. If we keep "taxing" the visitors and tourists. eventually they will stop coming to Chicago. Then what?

OT, but Fioretti's next idea is a commuter tax, which would certainly send jobs back to Schaumburg and Deerfield.

On point, Metra couldn't continue moaning that it didn't have money to meet federal mandates for positive train control after it had wrecked 2 RID trains at 47th. At least Metra always said that it set aside some fare money for capital.

[trainman8119]

OMG...enough on surveys and people wants. We have goofballs running over poor girls feet with their silly bikes, women who constantly whine that some poor stiff is sleeping too loud, or someone had the gall to ask someone a question in a silly quiet car universal fare cards, even though fare structures are completely different and on and on and on. Metra wused to be regarded as "one of the best commuter railroads in the country". They started taking surveys, got way too political, worried about votes instead good business sense and this is what you get. The new equipment sucks...much relied on passenger input. GPS, a bigger joke, never works and they never track like their supposed to. Now, Metra is a laughing stock.

As for PTC...it is far from being a total solution and the feds think it is absolute. Well, its not...see CTA O'Hare. Stuff is still going to happen. There are just way too many people who a) just don't get it, have no clue what they are talking about, but think they do and C) never ask anyone who really knows something about procedure or general knowhow for recommendations or suggestions for fear it won't conform to aomeone's wants, will hurt someone's feelings or won't be politically correct.

Sorry about ranting, but all of this just gets my goat.

[Busjack]

...

As for PTC...it is far from being a total solution and the feds think it is absolute. Well, its not...see CTA O'Hare. Stuff is still going to happen. There are just way too many people who a) just don't get it, have no clue what they are talking about, but think they do and C) never ask anyone who really knows something about procedure or general knowhow for recommendations or suggestions for fear it won't conform to aomeone's wants, will hurt someone's feelings or won't be politically correct.

...

The theory on PTC is that is isn't only cab signals, but also GPS on each train and communications between trains and with control centers (AAR page*). Metra, of course noted that it would have to conform to what the underlying railroads will use.

Notwithstanding what it is, the feds have mandated it by the end of 2015, and since this is the budget thread, Metra can't use the excuse that they can't pay for it.

_________

*The video has a better description, but also says railroads are not going to meet the deadline.

[Busjack]

I have to correct that Metra has posted its budget book, just not on the budget page.

The Press Release has a link to the Budget Book.

There is a White Paper which details Metra's State of Good Repair Needs. Also, it appears from the various Metra materials, including this Press Release, that (based on the references to Eisenhower through Reagan administration cars), that they intend to replace whatever 700s and 800s are still on the BNSF, plus the 7100, 7200, and 8200 series of cars, mostly on the BNSF, RI, and Milw. lines.

[trainman8119]

I have to correct that Metra has posted its budget book, just not on the budget page.

The Press Release has a link to the Budget Book.

plus the 7100, 7200, and 8200 series of cars, mostly on the BNSF, RI, and Milw. lines.

Unfortunately, those are the best cars from a comfort standpoint in the entire system.

[Busjack]

Unfortunately, those are the best cars from a comfort standpoint in the entire system.

From a rider standpoint, there wasn't anything wrong with the former C&NW cars when they were shuffled off the UP lines to the Milw lines while the 6000s were being phased in.

[Busjack]

After perusing the budget, the $400 million in bonds proposed over about the next 6 years only covers about 16% of only the PTC and car replacement program. Starting about 2018, Metra will have to dig around for about $1.3 billion of the remaining projected cost of the car replacement program. That also has nothing to do with bridge replacement or the like.

The capital plan is also counting, in the out years, on Illinois Jump Start bonding, on which Pace is not counting. If it does not come through, some other capital project gets pushed back.

The only operational change is that the RI would be split between Beverly and express trains on Saturday and Sunday, as it is during the weekday, to be covered by ICE.