ART: Pace submits a federal proposal.

[BusHunter]

X54- Cicero Express was my favorite Crosstown Express route, I miss it much, I remember rode it many times back in 2007-08. As far as Cicero can use a ART South, 383 is usually an heavy route during the day and Rush period, so Cicero ART can serve between Old Orchard and 103rd (to 104th/ Pulaski where 382 serves to).

To answer your question about Harlem Proposal, if you are talking about 386, it should remain as it is, along with 307 to Argo.

Yeah I know myself Cicero has pretty heavy usage from about 127th north. I use Cicero alot myself as a crosstown route. It beats going downtown and waiting for signals ahead

[west towns]

The map in the trib. looks like Cicero art begins at midway going south to looked like 211th. If that is the case, it wont go further north than midway

[MetroShadow]

The map in the trib. looks like Cicero art begins at midway going south to looked like 211th. If that is the case, it wont go further north than midway

I think some of the concepts were to call for extending 383 to connect with the 357. At the current point, the goal is to work out interconnectivity (likely establish local service before a ART).

[Busjack]

I think some of the concepts were to call for extending 383 to connect with the 357. At the current point, the goal is to work out interconnectivity (likely establish local service before a ART).

Again, I don't know how far they want to go with that. The original drafts of the South restructuring were that 356 and 386 would be one route, and there would be one route (either 357 or 506/508) on US 30 between Ford Heights and Joliet (I also seem to remember that 357 and 358 were supposed to be interlined). None of that happened.

In this kind of weather, I don't see how they can maintain that long of a route. I don't see how they can maintain something like the 565-574-272=272-574-572 interline now.

One must also take into consideration that the supposed traffic generator at 211th and Cicero is being demolished (Lincoln Mall).

Again, with Pace having said this is all "hail Mary," the odds are similar to having Kearse make the catch near the goal line, 7 or 8 times during the game.

[garmon757]

Again, I don't know how far they want to go with that. The original drafts of the South restructuring were that 356 and 386 would be one route.

That wouldn't be a bad idea at all. I'll would've consider it at Route 3XX Midway-Tinley Park-Harvey.

[MetroShadow]

Again, I don't know how far they want to go with that. The original drafts of the South restructuring were that 356 and 386 would be one route, and there would be one route (either 357 or 506/508) on US 30 between Ford Heights and Joliet (I also seem to remember that 357 and 358 were supposed to be interlined). None of that happened.

In this kind of weather, I don't see how they can maintain that long of a route. I don't see how they can maintain something like the 565-574-272=272-574-572 interline now.

One must also take into consideration that the supposed traffic generator at 211th and Cicero is being demolished (Lincoln Mall).

Again, with Pace having said this is all "hail Mary," the odds of Pace having Kearse make the catch near the goal line, 7 or 8 times during the game.

While I can see combining 357-358 being a thing (and replacing that 358 part south of US 30 with some other thing - maybe call and ride), extending 386 to Harvey would've been too much (and way too long). The current 356 does well connecting what was the south end of 352 and the old 354 through Midlothian and Tinley Park (by being a newer crosstown service on 183rd west of Homewood).

[jajuan]

How much bus service does that stretch of Harlem need, and how, on a one lane each way street is an "express" bus going to pass anything?

And, of course, south of Grand, there is already the undue competition between 90 and Pace 307 and 318.

Your "major intersections" is a red herring, because all ART does is stop somewhat (and apparently not very near from the Milwaukee preliminary plans) major streets.

What rail line?

Also, X20 (eventually) was express only on Washington and Warren Blvds. Plenty of room there.

While I'm not advocating a 22.5 mile bus route, your assessment that express limited service doesn't work on streets that only have one lane each direction isn't entirely correct. CTA is making it work with the J14 still. Yes Jeffery Boulevard has the bus lanes but that's only during rush hour and in the peak direction only. CTA also previously made it work previously somehow for a while on the former X55. Remember the 55 locals and X55, shared the same street routing, meaning both had to share that stretch of 55th between Western and Cicero which is also only one lane for each direction. So that really isn't an automatic disqualifier.

[Busjack]

... Remember the 55 locals and X55, shared the same street routing, meaning both had to share that stretch of 55th between Western and Cicero which is also only one lane for each direction. So that really isn't an automatic disqualifier.

It isn't only a 2 lane street, but also the amount of congestion there. Harlem is pretty congested around Harlem Furniture (or whatever it is called now) I contended before that the reason X79 didn't get implemented was the condition of the street between State and Stony Island, which, besides being one lane, has stop signs where traffic lights aren't. On the other hand, on West 55th, there was the combination that it was mostly residential, the regular 55 bus was cut back,and a certain number of local buses ended at St. Louis.

It is one thing to ban street parking on Jeffery (even if only during rush hour) and another on a commercial strip like Harlem or 79th, especially if LAZ wants to be reimbursed.

[jajuan]

It isn't only a 2 lane street, but also the amount of congestion there. Harlem is pretty congested around Harlem Furniture (or whatever it is called now) I contended before that the reason X79 didn't get implemented was the condition of the street between State and Stony Island, which, besides being one lane, has stop signs where traffic lights aren't. On the other hand, on West 55th, there was the combination that it was mostly residential, the regular 55 bus was cut back,and a certain number of local buses ended at St. Louis.

It is one thing to ban street parking on Jeffery (even if only during rush hour) and another on a commercial strip like Harlem or 79th, especially if LAZ wants to be reimbursed.

Well I wasn't really advocating banning parking either but only mentioned the parking ban pattern on Jeffery to make the larger point that it was only a limited part of how J14 works along side the 15, the local Jeffery route.

[Busjack]

Well I wasn't really advocating banning parking either but only mentioned the parking ban pattern on Jeffery to make the larger point that it was only a limited part of how J14 works along side the 15, the local Jeffery route.

Comparing the J14 and 15 schedules, J14 run about every 5 minutes during rush hour while 15 runs about every 10-12, so it is a similar situation to around 2009 when the resources were taken out of the local routes and put into the Xs (reversed in 2010).

If J14 is running in the parking lane, obviously it would have to get back into the traffic lane if the parking lane is blocked by a 15 in the bus stop, but that can be compared to something like the former X55, where the local could have been at the bus stop at the curb while being passed by the X55 in the traffic lane. However, my argument was that the portions of 79th and Harlem are so congested that there is no way an express bus can make up time. One really has to see if the Milwaukee Art is really going to work in around the area between Schmeisser's and Jerry's (basically Howard to Oakton), which gets congested with traffic real easily, especially during rush hour and Saturday. On the other hand, traffic moves fairly well, and most parking is off street between Oakton and Dempster.

[jajuan]

Comparing the J14 and 15 schedules, J14 run about every 5 minutes during rush hour while 15 runs about every 10-12, so it is a similar situation to around 2009 when the resources were taken out of the local routes and put into the Xs (reversed in 2010).

If J14 is running in the parking lane, obviously it would have to get back into the traffic lane if the parking lane is blocked by a 15 in the bus stop, but that can be compared to something like the former X55, where the local could have been at the bus stop at the curb while being passed by the X55 in the traffic lane. However, my argument was that the portions of 79th and Harlem are so congested that there is no way an express bus can make up time. One really has to see if the Milwaukee Art is really going to work in around the area between Schmeisser's and Jerry's (basically Howard to Oakton), which gets congested with traffic real easily, especially during rush hour and Saturday. On the other hand, traffic moves fairly well, and most parking is off street between Oakton and Dempster.

Yeah I saw that part of what you were saying and quite agree. It gets around to what was discussed in the CTA discussions about limited stop bus service and why a proposed X77 probably wouldn't work either every time those got proposed.

[west towns]

What other art routes have parking issues?