Routes that need Artics or Increased Service

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I remember seeing a timeline for the replacement of artics if funding was allocated for it a year or so ago and it hasn't become a reality yet. Most of the 4000s were supposed to be replaced by at least 2025 and newer artics were supposed to be getting delivered around that time as well. The #4300s are due to get rehabbed soon though but 98 buses can only get you so far.

I wondered if 308 artics ( 208 hybrid s from 2009 and 33 from 2013 plus 67 clean diesels 2013) were too many

  There were 225 NABI artics before they were yanked from service.  Obviously if CTA went back down to that number,  some routes that receive artics now may not get there anymore.   Pre 1979, there weren't any artics.  I don't think CTA wants to go back to those days 

[YoungBusLover]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I wondered if 308 artics ( 208 hybrid s from 2009 and 33 from 2013 plus 67 clean diesels 2013) were too many

  There were 225 NABI artics before they were yanked from service.  Obviously if CTA went back down to that number,  some routes that receive artics now may not get there anymore.   Pre 1979, there weren't any artics.  I don't think CTA wants to go back to those days 

In my honest opinion I think there were too many and especially with how things have been post pandemic there isn't much of a need for them anymore unless there used on LSD routes or school trippers/short liners. 

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I wondered if 308 artics ( 208 hybrid s from 2009 and 33 from 2013 plus 67 clean diesels 2013) were too many

  There were 225 NABI artics before they were yanked from service.  Obviously if CTA went back down to that number,  some routes that receive artics now may not get there anymore.   Pre 1979, there weren't any artics.  I don't think CTA wants to go back to those days 

If I go back to the MAN artic days there were 7000 - 7019 and then 7100 - 7224 for about 145 total.  Another 147 or so came from Seattle to help bridge rge gap until the NABI 7500s came.  The MAN artics were plenty because the CTA ones broke down at such a high rate that the Seattle ones were needed to maintain service.   But they too wilted in CTA service. 

The 225 NABIs were split among 4 garages with 103rd having 50. K about 30. 77TH  had about 40, and the remaining 125 were at North Park.   77TH had the 6 so most of its artics went there,  but some were on the 3, 4, 79. And 87.  Eventually 77TH lost the 6 and the artics.

K primary used them on their LSD, Sheridan,  and LaSalle routes. P used them for LSD and Sheridan.   Maybe 200 to 225 is about the right number.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

If I go back to the MAN artic days there were 7000 - 7019 and then 7100 - 7224 for about 145 total.  Another 147 or so came from Seattle to help bridge rge gap until the NABI 7500s came.  The MAN artics were plenty because the CTA ones broke down at such a high rate that the Seattle ones were needed to maintain service.   But they too wilted in CTA service. 

The 225 NABIs were split among 4 garages with 103rd having 50. K about 30. 77TH  had about 40, and the remaining 125 were at North Park.   77TH had the 6 so most of its artics went there,  but some were on the 3, 4, 79. And 87.  Eventually 77TH lost the 6 and the artics.

K primary used them on their LSD, Sheridan,  and LaSalle routes. P used them for LSD and Sheridan.   Maybe 200 to 225 is about the right number.

I agree with that point, 225 does seem to work, I'd advocate for an even 250. I do some digging I could probably find monthly average of how many artics were used consistently before the pandemic and compare it to today's standards.  I remember after the Red Line shutdown was over those 4300s were scattered all over the place for a brief period but even then the spare ratio was so high not every artic would get utilized as much. 

[Master58]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:05 AM, artthouwill said:

If I go back to the MAN artic days there were 7000 - 7019 and then 7100 - 7224 for about 145 total.  Another 147 or so came from Seattle to help bridge rge gap until the NABI 7500s came.  The MAN artics were plenty because the CTA ones broke down at such a high rate that the Seattle ones were needed to maintain service.   But they too wilted in CTA service. 

The 225 NABIs were split among 4 garages with 103rd having 50. K about 30. 77TH  had about 40, and the remaining 125 were at North Park.   77TH had the 6 so most of its artics went there,  but some were on the 3, 4, 79. And 87.  Eventually 77TH lost the 6 and the artics.

K primary used them on their LSD, Sheridan,  and LaSalle routes. P used them for LSD and Sheridan.   Maybe 200 to 225 is about the right number.

At one point didn't the 7300s run along with 7100s? 

[cta5658]

1 hour ago, Master58 said:

At one point didn't the 7300s run along with 7100s? 

I recall seeing that even when the 7300's were here, there were still two 7100's left until 2003 or early 2004 and those were 7143 and 7167, which were at 103rd

[artthouwill]

7 hours ago, Master58 said:

At one point didn't the 7300s run along with 7100s? 

Yes. That was the 147 or so from Seattle that I referred to 

  They were renumbered the 7300 series 

  Most kept their Seattleivrry

  They were older than the 7100s but had less mileage.  They were also 5 feet longer than the 55 ft artics CTA was using at that time.  Subsequent artic orders were for 60 ft artics.

  

[Master58]

13 hours ago, cta5658 said:

I recall seeing that even when the 7300's were here, there were still two 7100's left until 2003 or early 2004 and those were 7143 and 7167, which were at 103rd

Okay. That's what I thought. 

[jajuan]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:00 AM, YoungBusLover said:

I hate to break it to you but this is a NJT 60 footer. ?

Oh okay. Opposite coast of what I suspected. I saw all those wires overhead and thought maybe it was one of the more industrial parts of San Francisco. ?

[jajuan]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:02 AM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah those 8450s have been the added replacement so to speak for the artic shortage 103rd is currently suffering, the weird thing is they haven't used them that much on the LSD routes as much as I thought they would. You would think new buses would go straight there to keep the mileage down on the 1000s but that hasn't been the case so far.

That explains what I was seeing on the 6 on Saturday. And that was the most I saw on that route of any other given they I observe them on the route. When it's a weekday, I may see two or three on that route along with maybe a couple of 7900s and similar on the 26. The rest of the 40 footers are still mostly New Flyers. The 28 during rush hour is the LSD out of 103rd that I see the most 8350s getting assigned.

[YoungBusLover]

7 hours ago, jajuan said:

That explains what I was seeing on the 6 on Saturday. And that was the most I saw on that route of any other given they I observe them on the route. When it's a weekday, I may see two or three on that route along with maybe a couple of 7900s and similar on the 26. The rest of the 40 footers are still mostly New Flyers. The 28 during rush hour is the LSD out of 103rd that I see the most 8350s getting assigned.

Yeah, I've been working the #2 since last fall and as time has progressed I've seen less artics from 103rd running and if they are running they're either all on the J14,28, 192 or broken down somewhere along the respective routes at the time. All of these 8450s popping up doing the grunt work is pleasant to see but I wish all of them were assigned to the LSD routes to give the elderly #1000s a well needed rest. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

6 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

All of these 8450s popping up doing the grunt work is pleasant to see but I wish all of them were assigned to the LSD routes to give the elderly #1000s a well needed rest. 

this makes me question if a swap will happen between FG and 3 like it did at one point wit the 8400-8449 range

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Nitro said:

Now I'd like to mention something would the MCIs be used like they are in NJ and NY? I mean if the CTA is willing to diversify their fleet you might just order them en masse. I mean they already modernized and simplified their bus roster anyways.

Maybe a more appropriate topic for a ridiculous idea. CTA  is NOT the long haul bus carrier--Pace is. How could CTA maintain travel headway when it would have to board passengers every 1/4 mile up a narrow stairway, or even if you assume CRT 45 LEs, go to the back of the bus to operate the ramp?

[Nitro]

41 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Maybe a more appropriate topic for a ridiculous idea. CTA  is NOT the long haul bus carrier--Pace is. How could CTA maintain travel headway when it would have to board passengers every 1/4 mile up a narrow stairway, or even if you assume CRT 45 LEs, go to the back of the bus to operate the ramp?

I highly doubt any of this would happen since CTA and Pace isn't ordering any MCIs anytime soon. The CTA could build new depots to expand their bus fleet if the demand is high, Think of it like future proofing.

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I highly doubt any of this would happen since CTA and Pace isn't ordering any MCIs anytime soon. The CTA could build new depots to expand their bus fleet if the demand is high, Think of it like future proofing.

Future proofing against what??????

It's enough of a future proofing problem for all TAs that they have to electrify. Buying express buses to go from 63rd to Lake Zurich is the least of anyone's concerns.

Maybe you should step away from your computer or phone.

[Nitro]

Just now, Busjack said:

Future proofing against what??????

It's enough of a future proofing problem for all TAs that they have to electrify. Buying express buses to go from 63rd to Lake Zurich is the least of anyone's concerns.

Maybe you should step away from your computer or phone.

I'm only giving possibilities not fantasy plans.

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I'm only giving possibilities not fantasy plans.

Sorry, as @artthouwill and I pointed out, a 1% possibility is a fantasy plan, when you can't give an actual justification.

[Nitro]

Just now, Busjack said:

Sorry, as @artthouwill and I pointed out, a 1% possibility is a fantasy plan, when you can't give an actual justification.

I know they may not happen now though time will tell. I'm not justifying anything.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I know they may not happen now though time will tell. I'm not justifying anything.

Then don't bother us with things you have not thought through.

[andrethebusman99]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:03 AM, artthouwill said:

Yes. That was the 147 or so from Seattle that I referred to 

  They were renumbered the 7300 series 

  Most kept their Seattleivrry

  They were older than the 7100s but had less mileage.  They were also 5 feet longer than the 55 ft artics CTA was using at that time.  Subsequent artic orders were for 60 ft artics.

  

There were 114 from Seattle, 7300-7413. The ones still in old Seattle colors of white, yellow, tan kept their colors, the ones that came in newer dark yellow and green or blue got full CTA paint jobs. Trivia - they came on 89 foot TOFC flat cars via BNSF and were offloaded at Eola (near Aurora) and driven rest of the way. Were bought for two reasons: 1) 7100s had no lift, these did. 2) Back in 1980s after the LSD at Soldier Field wreck, CTA locked the transmissions in low, and however they did it, a few years later when they tried to undo what they had done, they were never fully successful in many of them, so like on a 147 trip, by the time you got to Oak St, you could smell the transmission overheating, leading to an ever increasing failure rate.

[jajuan]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:03 AM, andrethebusman99 said:

There were 114 from Seattle, 7300-7413. The ones still in old Seattle colors of white, yellow, tan kept their colors, the ones that came in newer dark yellow and green or blue got full CTA paint jobs. Trivia - they came on 89 foot TOFC flat cars via BNSF and were offloaded at Eola (near Aurora) and driven rest of the way. Were bought for two reasons: 1) 7100s had no lift, these did. 2) Back in 1980s after the LSD at Soldier Field wreck, CTA locked the transmissions in low, and however they did it, a few years later when they tried to undo what they had done, they were never fully successful in many of them, so like on a 147 trip, by the time you got to Oak St, you could smell the transmission overheating, leading to an ever increasing failure rate.

That explains the slower acceleration of the 7100s compared to the 40 footers they served alongside and later the 7300s in the rare occasions you might see a 7100 running at the same moment of a 7300. And from what you mentioned occurring, it explains why they were in such bad shape at the end, facilitating the need to be replaced with what were slightly older artics to begin with before CTA ran into the NABI artic debacle.