andrethebusman Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 900-904, 906, 908-909 to Complete Coach Works 11/13/14. Still looking for 905, 907 dispos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 900-904, 906, 908-909 to Complete Coach Works 11/13/14. Still looking for 905, 907 disposWhoa! Now that's some interesting news. I wonder what CCW's gonna do with those buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Whoa! Now that's some interesting news. I wonder what CCW's gonna do with those buses.Their site says that they're in the business of remanufacturing and reselling buses, so they must think there is something there worth rehabbing that CTA did not. There is a video there about how they converted a NF bus to a battery bus, and a press release that they sold some to IndyGo. Also, a Jay Leno's Garage on this,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVXWGBgYj3M&feature=youtu.be Edited May 4, 2015 by Busjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I saw that video It was very interesting to watch how they recycle used buses and give them a second life at a substantial savings and return on investment. It would have been cool to see CTA do this to the Flx Metros or the rehabbed New Flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I saw that video It was very interesting to watch how they recycle used buses and give them a second life at a substantial savings and return on investment. It would have been cool to see CTA do this to the Flx Metros or the rehabbed New FlyersFor the most part, the Flx Metros were rusty and I don't think CTA wanted high floor buses. However, I wonder if the usual CTA contract requirement that proof of scrapping applied to the 900s.What also seemed to make sense was that the TA got a rehabbed, but functionally equivalent to new electric bus for about $500,000, while CTA is waiting for grants for $1.2 million buses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) For the most part, the Flx Metros were rusty and I don't think CTA wanted high floor buses. However, I wonder if the usual CTA contract requirement that proof of scrapping applied to the 900s.What also seemed to make sense was that the TA got a rehabbed, but functionally equivalent to new electric bus for about $500,000, while CTA is waiting for grants for $1.2 million buses.Yeah that was dumb on CTA's part. They are going after these million dollar buses, possibly sacrificing the #7900 option, when they could have made the #900's electric buses for less than half the price. Well their loss is someone else's gain. Edited May 4, 2015 by BusHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted May 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 For the most part, the Flx Metros were rusty and I don't think CTA wanted high floor buses. However, I wonder if the usual CTA contract requirement that proof of scrapping applied to the 900s.What also seemed to make sense was that the TA got a rehabbed, but functionally equivalent to new electric bus for about $500,000, while CTA is waiting for grants for $1.2 million buses.900's were handled differently than anything previously, they were auctioned off. Presumably to bet maximum return. However, they were NOT described as "inoperable, junk". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Their site says that they're in the business of remanufacturing and reselling buses, so they must think there is something there worth rehabbing that CTA did not. There is a video there about how they converted a NF bus to a battery bus, and a press release that they sold some to IndyGo. Also, a Jay Leno's Garage on this,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVXWGBgYj3M&feature=youtu.beI already know about it. I saw the video many times. I knew about that for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I already know about it. I saw the video many times. I knew about that for a couple of years.So basically the answer to the question you posed is that you know they got a number of shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 So basically the answer to the question you posed is that you know they got a number of shells.Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 So basically the answer to the question you posed is that you know they got a number of shells.I kinda wonder now if CTA would give the Novas they said they weren't going to retire to CCW for rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I kinda wonder now if CTA would give the Novas they said they weren't going to retire to CCW for rehab.There hasn't been a definitive statement to the one you attributed to CTA. Only inference was the CMAQ request which appeared to be BSing the feds, and that is counter the budget.Apparently they are still running what's left after the contract to scrap up to 200 of them, so they aren't available to give to anyone to rehab.Certainly there is nothing in the capital plan that CTA wants to rehab them for its own use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 These buses would've still been in service no doubt if it wasn't for ISE filing bankruptcy. The buses are only 8 years old and have a few more years life left in them. The only thing that took them out of CTA's roster is the fact that all 10 would've needed a power transplant to another Hybrid type, and to go to GM/Allison might've been possible, but would've required body work as well, as the roof pods are larger on the 800's compared to the 900's. The diesel engine would've required replacement as the 900's used a 6.7L ISB Cummins engine and the 800's use a 8.9L ISL Cummins engine. CTA would've needed to procure rebuilt 8.9L Cummins engines or get ten brand new 9L Cummins engines for these buses, which probably would've only remained in service four more years and wouldn't have been worth the cost of the powertrain transplants(both Hybrid and Diesel). Total electric buses are still in infant stages across the country and Canada, as they are still being tested to see how reliable they are. Maybe in five or so years, after refinement and tweaking, a all-electric fleet can be considered for any transit agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) These buses would've still been in service no doubt if it wasn't for ISE filing bankruptcy. ...As discussed with connection with the BAE series hybrids (and BAE is not in bankruptcy), overhauling the electrical systems, including the electric motors, might not have been cost effective.Hence, if one wants to speculate about anything, putting in CCW's all electric system might have been more cost effective (especially given the statements in Jay Leno's Garage that the maintenance of a diesel engine and automatic transmission are not involved), but my comparison before was to a new battery bus at $1.2 million, while the comparison in CTA's calculation was paying $500 million for a rehabbed bus. Obviously, though, IndyGo sees some value there. Edited May 4, 2015 by Busjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I kinda wonder now if CTA would give the Novas they said they weren't going to retire to CCW for rehab.Those buses have spent 13-15 years in a Chicago environment of brutally cold winters with heavy salt usage and very hot summers. The bodies are beat up and no doubt pitted with rust all over. CCW would have to pretty much gut the buses down to the frames and if the frames are good, rebuild the buses from there up. Too much work even for their standards, I'm sure. A bus that's in mildly good condition I can see, but a 12+ year old CTA or PACE Bus is pretty much shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Those buses have spent 13-15 years in a Chicago environment of brutally cold winters with heavy salt usage and very hot summers. The bodies are beat up and no doubt pitted with rust all over. ...Again, not applicable to a Nova, since they have stainless steel frames and composite shells. Buses are probably shot, but not for the reason you state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I kinda wonder now if CTA would give the Novas they said they weren't going to retire to CCW for rehab.Probably not as they have served the entire 12 year FTA service life and can be sold as scrap. The #900's are 2007 buses so they are only 8 years old. (7 to 7 and 1/2 years in operation, stored indoors, maybe 200K miles) They have be to sold not as scrapped because they are not 12 years old. CCW saw an ah ha moment and jumped at it. With ISE out of business, that all you can really do with those buses now. The shame is CTA didn't think of that. Edited May 6, 2015 by BusHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Probably not as they have served the entire 12 year FTA service life and can be sold as scrap. The #900's are 2007 buses so they are only 8 years old. (7 to 7 and 1/2 years in operation, stored indoors, maybe 200K miles) They have be to sold not as scrapped because they are not 12 years old. CCW saw an ah ha moment and jumped at it. With ISE out of business, that all you can really do with those buses now. The shame is CTA didn't think of that.No CTA did not think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Or maybe they just decided it wasn't the effort for a series of only 10 buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Or maybe they just decided it wasn't the effort for a series of only 10 buses.If they had thought of it, the calculation was probably that they maybe would get back $20,000 per bus and have to pay $500,000 to get it back.* Also, IndyGo stated that it had a TIGER grant to do it.________*Not much different than in the 1950s when they sold a PCC streetcar to St. Louis Car Co. for scrapping and bought an L car back, except in that case SLCC scrapped the bodies and reused the components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) They could have easily got a clean air grant; it seems that's what everyone is doing, because it promotes a clean environment those types of buses are smiled upon and money is set aside for just that purpose. CTA is trying to get 1.2 million dollar buses, 25 I think. So that's roughly 30 mill from the feds. I guess it's alright if the feds don't mind. But just think, they could have did these 10 buses and asked the feds for 15 buses, that would be more realistic and it would be a testbed not only for the viability of electric buses, but rebuilt electric buses. Who knows maybe one day CTA would want to rehab buses as electrics, but they won't know how good of an idea that is if they don't pursue it on a trial basis. Edited May 7, 2015 by BusHunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 They could have easily got a clean air grant; it seems that's what everyone is doing, because it promotes a clean environment those types of buses are smiled upon and money is set aside for just that purpose. CTA is trying to get 1.2 million dollar buses, 25 I think. So that's roughly 30 mill from the feds. I guess it's alright if the feds don't mind. But just think, they could have did these 10 buses and asked the feds for 15 buses, that would be more realistic and it would be a testbed not only for the viability of electric buses, but rebuilt electric buses. Who knows maybe one day CTA would want to rehab buses as electrics, but they won't know how good of an idea that is if they don't pursue it on a trial basis. But remember just because they made a wishlist out for funds for something doesn't mean it was ever that close to the realm of possibility even on a good day. They also wanted funds almost a decade ago for reinstating service on the 44 north of the Orange Line but terminating in the South Loop instead of downtown. And that didn't happen of course and the 44 actually saw a further reduction of service in subsequent years since instead of their wished for increase of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.