CTA Fall Pick Changes

[MetroShadow]

Heads up if you are looking for your X9/49 Posts…

[jajuan]

Lane has an academy for 7th & 8th graders. 

Similar to Whitney Young having a similar Academic Center for 7th and 8th graders. If they're similar to Young's 7th and 8th graders, they can begin high school level courses while still in 8th grade and thus be a year ahead in the respective subject area. Bringing it back to transit though, Many of Whitney Young's AC students rode in yellow school buses to and from school with a few using CTA. So there may be a similar issue with that school in determining how to schedule school trip runs on the 126, which in turn become 143s at Michigan/Congress Plaza like some of the PM extras on the 7 do.

[BusHunter]

I was reading that parents complained about Taft HS having a 9AM - 4:30PM school day so they rescinded the schedule back to the same as last years school day. In fact I was reading that 38 schools have rescinded the new start time where 43 are keeping the new start time. Now to find out what schools are doing what.

[jajuan]

I was reading that parents complained about Taft HS having a 9AM - 4:30PM school day so they rescinded the schedule back to the same as last years school day. In fact I was reading that 38 schools have rescinded the new start time where 43 are keeping the new start time. Now to find out what schools are doing what.

Sounds like they've turned everything into an even bigger mess when they really could have just left well enough along and left the end times as they were before for all the high schools. The whole proposal was already mucking things up in creating the possibility that buses and trains would have to contend with these big crush loads of kids during the very heart of the PM rush instead of during the early parts of it before the PM rush really gets going. And that was setting aside my thought that the idea was the height of stupidity from the get go in that broader sense that violence in Chicago is still very much big in the news and they come up with the questionable idea of letting a bulk of the city's teenagers out of school at a time that the sun is setting or has already set and therefore it being already dark during much of the school year. 

[BusHunter]

Sounds like they've turned everything into an even bigger mess when they really could have just left well enough along and left the end times as they were before for all the high schools. The whole proposal was already mucking things up in creating the possibility that buses and trains would have to contend with these big crush loads of kids during the very heart of the PM rush instead of during the early parts of it before the PM rush really gets going. And that was setting aside my thought that the idea was the height of stupidity from the get go in that broader sense that violence in Chicago is still very much big in the news and they come up with the questionable idea of letting a bulk of the city's teenagers out of school at a time that the sun is setting or has already set and therefore it being already dark during much of the school year. 

Now it becomes a question of whether schools on the same street that could benefit off other school runs actually get a benefit. I'm not familiar with the North Side College prep runs, but those could help serve Von Steuben or the same with Schurz and Lane.  I notice the morning #152 school runs get used by both Lane and Schurz kids.

The thought process is screwed up for the kids, they are thinking to let them sleep so they can board later, but having them travel in the dark at night is no good either. Plus in the winter there is not much light for the kids to enjoy, in the morning the sun is low and at night it's already down. They are putting a higher risk of SAD and depression on the kids, having them travel around like vampires. The body responds to light, take it away and those risk factors go up. That's one reason why suicide rates and depression are high in places like Barrow, Alaska. No sun and lots of cold.

[Busjack]

Now it becomes a question of whether schools on the same street that could benefit off other school runs actually get a benefit. I'm not familiar with the North Side College prep runs, but those could help serve Von Steuben or the same with Schurz and Lane.  I notice the morning #152 school runs get used by both Lane and Schurz kids.

....

Usually, the issue with schools letting out at the same time on the same street is that at stop at one school fills up the buses assigned to that school. I suppose a distinction could be made between more buses assigned to a particular street and a trip actually starting at a school. I assume that your Schurz and Lane example is more buses on Addison.

I don't know what CTA's or Pace's experience is, but in some instances, changing the bell times has meant that different companies have had to take care of elementary and high schools in the same territory, because one bus couldn't take care of both. Maybe that was the motivation for staggering times in the city, too, since I said that the cost element was the yellow school buses, not passes to ride CTA buses.

[jajuan]

Well CTA still hasn't moved to fold the 111A into one of the larger routes in that area. What they actually did do though is cut the hours of operation effective the start of the upcoming fall pick. So as thought, they basically just came up with something to shut up protesters in that area and were hoping for attention to die back down enough from the issue of how to serve Pullman Park Plaza so they wouldn't really have to move to a more permanent solution beyond having come up with the 111A.

[Busjack]

Well CTA still hasn't moved to fold the 111A into one of the larger routes in that area. What they actually did do though is cut the hours of operation effective the start of the upcoming fall pick. So as thought, they basically just came up with something to shut up protesters in that area and were hoping for attention to die back down enough from the issue of how to serve Pullman Park Plaza so they wouldn't really have to move to a more permanent solution beyond having come up with the 111A.

It wasn't so much protesters as Ald. Beale saying that CTA had to honor its contract with Pullman Plaza. But, as I indicated at the time, I'm sure they kept the route separate so as to later make a Crowd Reduction Plan type demand that someone else pay for it.

[jajuan]

It wasn't so much protesters as Ald. Beale saying that CTA had to honor its contract with Pullman Plaza. But, as I indicated at the time, I'm sure they kept the route separate so as to later make a Crowd Reduction Plan type demand that someone else pay for it.

So basically it boiled down to testing how much political juice Beale had to influence CTA operations in his ward as far as resolving the issue of them signing a contract to provide service to this shopping area. The fact that they're cutting down service hours does seem to pretty much sum up your point. 

[BusHunter]

I notice the Lane tech school runs this pick in the pm are all going west and eb they are pulling in at Kedzie. That's weird, I never saw that before. I hope the operators are getting more time than that. That's like a half a tripper. They have to be going/coming from somewhere else. Another route? If not that's like 60-90 minute trips. i was thinking maybe the scheduling got screwed up because cps was going to stay in class until 4:30pm and now they don't. I'll have to see what happens winter pick. But now the way it is they have 4 pm pullins and they shouldn't really be pulling in until just after 5; first runs at fg always pulled in around 5:10 or 5:30 at the garage. I guess times have changed.

[orionbuslover]

I notice the Lane tech school runs this pick in the pm are all going west and eb they are pulling in at Kedzie. That's weird, I never saw that before. I hope the operators are getting more time than that. That's like a half a tripper. They have to be going/coming from somewhere else. Another route? If not that's like 60-90 minute trips. i was thinking maybe the scheduling got screwed up because cps was going to stay in class until 4:30pm and now they don't. I'll have to see what happens winter pick. But now the way it is they have 4 pm pullins and they shouldn't really be pulling in until just after 5; first runs at fg always pulled in around 5:10 or 5:30 at the garage. I guess times have changed.

It's not just Lane Tech that has these half trippers. When CPS announced the later dismissals, the Fall schedules were mostly done. The CTA knew the later dismissals would increase the number of peak vehicles needed. By time the later dismissals were cancelled, drivers had already picked their work. So some school trips were able to be linked to regular service, but most trippers just got moved earlier with nothing to link to which is why you see those short trippers operating for ~90 mins. The Winter pick will definitely get things back to normal.

[BusHunter]

It's not just Lane Tech that has these half trippers. When CPS announced the later dismissals, the Fall schedules were mostly done. The CTA knew the later dismissals would increase the number of peak vehicles needed. By time the later dismissals were cancelled, drivers had already picked their work. So some school trips were able to be linked to regular service, but most trippers just got moved earlier with nothing to link to which is why you see those short trippers operating for ~90 mins. The Winter pick will definitely get things back to normal.

Supposedly, not all the cps schools rescinded back into the 2014 dismissal time. About half were staying at 4:30PM. So maybe someone has that lucky run that keeps them out longer. But still they could have linked those to something. We have pullouts on the #152 that pullout pretty close to 4PM, so why not just keep the np buses out there for another trip and pull in. I also notice alot of these school runs are 40 footers now, at least half, where before some day's there were none. It was all artics.

[orionbuslover]

 

Supposedly, not all the cps schools rescinded back into the 2014 dismissal time. About half were staying at 4:30PM. So maybe someone has that lucky run that keeps them out longer. But still they could have linked those to something. We have pullouts on the #152 that pullout pretty close to 4PM, so why not just keep the np buses out there for another trip and pull in. I also notice alot of these school runs are 40 footers now, at least half, where before some day's there were none. It was all artics.

Not all schools reverted back to their exact 2014 schedule, but absolutely zero that have CTA service are getting out at 4:30. I understand your thinking that there must be something to easily link the trips to, but that wasn't the case for many of the trippers. This is what happens when agencies don't share information. The proposed changes definitely should of been discussed before hand with all stakeholders. CPD also found out about the proposed changes to bell times through the news, they weren't happy either.

[andrethebusman]

Aumundsen HS has a mess on 92 - lets out at 330p, so FG has an extra that comes there, goes to Berwyn L, back to Jeff, pulls in. At 430p, a North Park artic comes by, picks up nobody, goes to Berwyn L, then goes downtown probably to 147.

Politics trumps common sense, doesn't it?

[Busjack]

Aumundsen HS has a mess on 92 - lets out at 330p, so FG has an extra that comes there, goes to Berwyn L, back to Jeff, pulls in. At 430p, a North Park artic comes by, picks up nobody, goes to Berwyn L, then goes downtown probably to 147.

Politics trumps common sense, doesn't it?

Doesn't seem to be politics. See said about 14 months ago that CTA asks CPS for bell times, but somehow communication broke down here.

[MetroShadow]

Doesn't seem to be politics. See said about 14 months ago that CTA asks CPS for bell times, but somehow communication broke down here.

The same would be said for Pace: the bell times would be requested near the end of the school year so that the Fall Picks can reflect those changes; that doesn't change on the CTA side either. If those Northside or Amundsen students won't take that later bus (and who knows if that Pull Out is starting at Albany or Kedzie), then it's not an inefficient use of the bus. That's just circumstantial (or those kids aren't on the Debate Team).

[Busjack]

... If those Northside or Amundsen students won't take that later bus (and who knows if that Pull Out is starting at Albany or Kedzie), then it's not an inefficient use of the bus. That's just circumstantial (or those kids aren't on the Debate Team).

It sure seems like an inefficient use of an articulated bus if it runs empty. The debate team, drama club, and whatever extracurricular can't be that many students. But maybe you were getting back to the point whether pullouts are in service.

... the bell times would be requested near the end of the school year so that the Fall Picks can reflect those changes...

That might be the real cause, as the administration changed bell times (back?) a couple of days before the start of the school year.

[jajuan]

 

Not all schools reverted back to their exact 2014 schedule, but absolutely zero that have CTA service are getting out at 4:30. I understand your thinking that there must be something to easily link the trips to, but that wasn't the case for many of the trippers. This is what happens when agencies don't share information. The proposed changes definitely should of been discussed before hand with all stakeholders. CPD also found out about the proposed changes to bell times through the news, they weren't happy either.

 

It sure seems like an inefficient use of an articulated bus if it runs empty. The debate team, drama club, and whatever extracurricular can't be that many students. But maybe you were getting back to the point whether pullouts are in service.

That might be the real cause, as the administration changed bell times (back?) a couple of days before the start of the school year.

So basically more aftermath of CPS coming up with a questionable idea that shouldn't have needed a rocket scientist to see that it was not going to go over well with parents from the get go with gun violence being in the news so much and them rescinding that idea pretty much at the last minute.

Edited October 11, 2015 by jajuan

[orionbuslover]

That might be the real cause, as the administration changed bell times (back?) a couple of days before the start of the school year.

Pretty much sums it up. CTA is in constant communication with the schools directly. The initial shift to later bell times was a top-down decision, the schools themselves didn't even know of the proposed changes. After CTA accommodated the later bell times and drivers picked their work, CPS rescinded the later starts and dismissals. The schedule changes were made before the pick went into effect, but alot of inefficiencies exist regarding the trippers. Those inefficiencies will go away come Winter pick.