Return of the 11 & 31 Bus

[sw4400]

Lincoln & Addison/Ravenswood. Saw the guy putting the sign up waiting for the bus today. New location for the SB stop. Before elimination, the stop was near the Tiger's Body Shop. Now, it's the other side of the Metra UP-N Line across Addison.

 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, jajuan said:

Yeah that part stuck out as official CTA materials that would be passed out to riders. The flyer materials mentioning "the years of advocacy" looked to be items from the community and Pawar.

Stop by the butcher seems a plug for Paulina Market. Get groceries seems to be a plug for Whole Checkbook Market, as it is too far south to be sw's Jewel.

It appears (add in spa and art class) that CTA marketing believes that the marginal rider it intends to attract to meet the benchmark is a yuppie. No mention of going to the sheltered workshop, which seemed to be the crux of the hearing 4 years ago.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

Between his flyer and the CTA's as well as the community and business's support, it should seemingly be enough to hit the 1500 (am I remembering that correctly here?} threshold set by CTA as the mark of success to keep the expansion around. That's a relatively low threshold to meet considering that as seen from the November 2012 ridership report, the average weekday count of about 5400 passenger boardings per day just before the cut was enough for Claypool to get the CTA board to rubber stamp the cut of everything south of the Western Brown Line bus terminal.

Certain amount of applies and oranges here. The prior ridership report was for the entire 11 from Howard to downtown. Andre had pointed out that there were essentially 3 ridership groups, and Claypool cut out the middle one.

I also noted that by the Chief Planning Officer saying at the meeting that the route has to meet the 50% percentile of ridership per service hour that the goal is comparatively high. In effect, it has to be in the median between a Norwood Park route and an articulated bus route. By comparison, the 35 extension only had to do as well as other buses on the southwest side west of Kedzie.

Of course, I have always claimed that Claypool is a hack, while Carter seems to know what he is doing. With the recent videos showing that the CT Board makes decisions in open subcommittee meetings, we at least now see the deliberative process, although it doesn't appear that the members are asking the correct questions to staff (more evident at the 7000s meeting).

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Juniorz said:

Remember, the CTA in 2012 is not the CTA of 2016. We were in a financial crisis, now with the economy a little more stable and the return on a trial bases, I think the targeted number makes sense given the schedule provided. In December, we'll see if it's a success.

I'm not so sure there was a financial crisis then, but as Carter indicated in November (see CTA Tattler), the RTA Retailers' Occupational (Sales) Tax must now be generating enough that all the sniping has ended.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Certain amount of applies and oranges here. The prior ridership report was for the entire 11 from Howard to downtown. Andre had pointed out that there were essentially 3 ridership groups, and Claypool cut out the middle one.

I also noted that by the Chief Planning Officer saying at the meeting that the route has to meet the 50% percentile of ridership per service hour that the goal is comparatively high. In effect, it has to be in the median between a Norwood Park route and an articulated bus route. By comparison, the 35 extension only had to do as well as other buses on the southwest side west of Kedzie.

Of course, I have always claimed that Claypool is a hack, while Carter seems to know what he is doing. With the recent videos showing that the CT Board makes decisions in open subcommittee meetings, we at least now see the deliberative process, although it doesn't appear that the members are asking the correct questions to staff (more evident at the 7000s meeting).

Granted I compared somewhat different things there, but i can go outside the numbers on paper and pretty much say the leg that got separated back out as the #37 once again ran essentially empty even in rush periods at the time until you got to the Fullerton station. The bulk of the ridership for the route at the time from personal observation was in the middle part that's being restored. Those extra circumstances are another reason why I say the threshold seems low. But starting Monday moving forward until December, we shall see. I think we can all agree that despite the Board not asking correct questions at some of the meetings, what we have now in the higher levels is a heck of lot better than what we had in Claypool and probably some other past CTA Presidents. We're seeing some smarter decisions at least along with as you said the process that brings about those decisions. A bit more transparency of the process being seen, if you will.

[Busjack]

Let's do some SWAG math to see what is involved. Not exactly how CTA would do it,but with their figures.

A round trip between Western and Fullerton is 1 hour 20 minutes, or 1.33 service hours.

CTA cost per service hour was stated to be $106. Recovery ratio is 60%. Average fare per boarding is $1.11. Thus, each round trip would have to be credited with 76 passengers,

Passengers are getting on and off en route, of course. I suppose 38 passengers in each direction each trip is doable.

[BusHunter]

Why is the #11 billed as going to Fullerton Red line when it goes to Webster/Lincoln? At least that's what mr cta says.

[BusOps]

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Why is the #11 billed as going to Fullerton Red line when it goes to Webster/Lincoln? At least that's what mr cta says.

Because Webster/Lincoln isn't the end of the route.  The end of the route is the Red Line when the bus is facing Westbound on Fullerton. Another example of this is on the Peterson route. It says Peterson to Berwyn Red Line but the route doesn't end at the Red Line until after the bus comes back around and faces Westbound.

[jajuan]

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Why is the #11 billed as going to Fullerton Red line when it goes to Webster/Lincoln? At least that's what mr cta says.

Plus they probably figure saying Fullerton Red Line gives folks a more immediate idea of the general area the buses will go to than simply Webster/Lincoln. It's probably likelier the layover point will be Fullerton at Halsted facing westbound so as not to block the stop at the station. And the #84's layover is Bryn Mawr Red Line facing west, by the way BusOps, not Berwyn. You probably had the Foster bus on your mind though you clearly intended that to be about Peterson. Oh and SB side of Lincoln has bus stop signs now. 

[BusOps]

Oops I got my "b" streets turned around. I'm embarrassed. ?

 

[jajuan]

20 minutes ago, BusOps said:

Oops I got my "b" streets turned around. I'm embarrassed. ?

 

No worries. Simple Freudian slip. It's happened to all of us.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, BusOps said:

Because Webster/Lincoln isn't the end of the route.  The end of the route is the Red Line when the bus is facing Westbound on Fullerton. Another example of this is on the Peterson route. It says Peterson to Berwyn Red Line but the route doesn't end at the Red Line until after the bus comes back around and faces Westbound.

So the bus terminal is the Red line? Not Halsted? Notice the Fullerton is billed as going to Halsted. #11 did go there before. Unless they are concerned no one will catch on that it goes to Red line, but halsted via red line sounds good.

Interesting looks like the PI sign says Fullerton/Halsted (I'm trying not to be difficult... Really!!)

 

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

So the bus terminal is the Red line? Not Halsted? Notice the Fullerton is billed as going to Halsted. #11 did go there before. Unless they are concerned no one will catch on that it goes to Red line, but halsted via red line sounds good.

All of this gets down to what the significance of "terminal" is,given, for instance that the 410/411 terminal was moved up one mall entrance because the signs were fouled up.

In most cases involving CTA, and especially after the L lines got colors, the sign has been for a rapid transit station.I believe Bus Ops was referring to Peterson to Bryn Mawr Red Line, because the riders transfer there, even though the bus has to go to a triangular island on an LSD ramp to turn around.

However, both 74 and 84 bring up the same issue, as while 74 assumes you want to go to Halsted, 84 doesn't assume you want to go to Sheridan (at least from a passenger's perspective).

If you want real inconsistency in terminology, look at BusTracker. The terminal on the destination signs is "77 Belmont Sheridan/Diversey," and when you click on a bus on the map is "Diversey/Sheridan" but on the route progress diagram is "St. Joseph Hospital."

[BusOps]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

So the bus terminal is the Red line? Not Halsted? Notice the Fullerton is billed as going to Halsted. #11 did go there before. Unless they are concerned no one will catch on that it goes to Red line, but halsted via red line sounds good.

Interesting looks like the PI sign says Fullerton/Halsted (I'm trying not to be difficult... Really!!)

 

If you notice CTA is using two different signs for the 11 Lincoln. Look back in this thread at the pic taking by TaylorTank1229. It shows the Lincoln ending at the Red/Purple/Brown Lines. Besides any of the bus signs that CTA uses with a map of the route on it is just a rough representation and is not to scale.

[BusHunter]

18 minutes ago, BusOps said:

If you notice CTA is using two different signs for the 11 Lincoln. Look back in this thread at the pic taking by TaylorTank1229. It shows the Lincoln ending at the Red/Purple/Brown Lines. Besides any of the bus signs that CTA uses with a map of the route on it is just a rough representation and is not to scale.

No but it says on the sign it goes to Fullerton/Halsted in words. You have to really pan it up to see it and it's kind of blurry but you can make it out. I took a nb sign if you need something clearer it states it goes to Howard/Mccormick (words not diagram although you can refer to both as a rider or customer)

This is the lincoln/Ashland sign nb, unfortunately the sb was still paper on friday after the sign crew had came through. I didn't see a far side sign so who knows where the belmont sb stop is, I guess at the paper sign. maybe if I'm over there I'll take a picture later.

 

 

[jajuan]

There are four different signs actually. One for each direction north of the Western Brown Line terminal stating service is daily early morning through early evening, one for SB south of the Brown Line stating service to Fullerton/Halsted weekdays mid-morning through early evening, and then again for the NB side south of the Brown Line stating service north to McCormick/Howard weekdays mid-morning through early evening. So basically a sign describing service on the current leg and signs telling the general parts of the day served on the extension.

[jajuan]

While on the #X49 this morning, I spotted a big group of folks crossing at Leland and gather on the north side of the bus terminal. They appeared to be waiting for the first Lincoln bus in 3-1/2 years to go south of that terminal as this was just before 10 AM. There was even a guy with a TV camera out there. A couple of supervisors were out along with a CTA employee at the SB bus stop to remind people of the extension. Looks like the neighborhood wants the extension to succeed with it looking like a full busload of folks out there.

[Busjack]

On 6/18/2016 at 10:13 AM, BusHunter said:

So the bus terminal is the Red line? Not Halsted? Notice the Fullerton is billed as going to Halsted. #11 did go there before. Unless they are concerned no one will catch on that it goes to Red line, but halsted via red line sounds good.

 

 

From what was just shown on WGN News. the destination sign on the bus  is 11 LINCOLN (flip) 11 to FULLERTON/ (over) HALSTED.

[verive.m]

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

From what was just shown on WGN News. the destination sign on the bus  is 11 LINCOLN (flip) 11 to FULLERTON/ (over) HALSTED.

The question still remains where is the layover? It's got to be Fullerton/Halsted cause Fullerton/Red line would totally screw with the #74.

Ok I looked up the fullerton dog house in the picture and the address is 816 fullerton so I guess in the picture it's at the layover point. DNAinfo has a story about it and shows an expanded picture of the storefront.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130317/lincoln-park/mural-brightens-fullerton-thanks-chicagos-dog-house

[sw4400]

22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The question still remains where is the layover? It's got to be Fullerton/Halsted cause Fullerton/Red line would totally screw with the #74.

Ok I looked up the fullerton dog house in the picture and the address is 816 fullerton so I guess in the picture it's at the layover point. DNAinfo has a story about it and shows an expanded picture of the storefront.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130317/lincoln-park/mural-brightens-fullerton-thanks-chicagos-dog-house

Look at the map link here.... this is the most probable point for the #11 Layover, and this is how it probably goes....

• #11 gets to Lincoln/Fullerton/Halsted
• Bus makes a right onto Halsted SB to Webster
• Bus makes a left onto Webster EB to Lincoln
• Bus makes a left onto Lincoln and stops for layover just before Lincoln/Fullerton/Halsted, as seen on linked map. This is a perfect point where two or perhaps three #11 40' buses can park while the Bus Operator takes a short layover break before turning back on Lincoln and heading NB again.

[Busjack]

54 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Look at the map link here.... this is the most probable point for the #11 Layover, and this is how it probably goes....

• #11 gets to Lincoln/Fullerton/Halsted
• Bus makes a right onto Halsted SB to Webster
• Bus makes a left onto Webster EB to Lincoln
• Bus makes a left onto Lincoln and stops for layover just before Lincoln/Fullerton/Halsted, as seen on linked map. This is a perfect point where two or perhaps three #11 40' buses can park while the Bus Operator takes a short layover break before turning back on Lincoln and heading NB again.

That's what's on the timetable. I  don't believe it was on the original flyers, but is on the extension map..

[Juniorz]

The cta is advertising the main destination points, which would be between the Western and Fullerton brown line via Lincoln. That is how you will attract the ridership

[jajuan]

3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

The question still remains where is the layover? It's got to be Fullerton/Halsted cause Fullerton/Red line would totally screw with the #74.

Ok I looked up the fullerton dog house in the picture and the address is 816 fullerton so I guess in the picture it's at the layover point. DNAinfo has a story about it and shows an expanded picture of the storefront.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130317/lincoln-park/mural-brightens-fullerton-thanks-chicagos-dog-house

Yeah it would either be there or do as the #74 does, layover on Fullerton facing west just past Halsted near the McDonald's after the turn off of Lincoln. 

UPDATE: BusTracker confirms the layover to be at the Fullerton station after the buses do the Lincoln/Webster loop. #1998 is sitting there right now on a 10 minute layover break.

[BusHunter]

I saw a #11 today at Ashland/Belmont so I took a count on the riders, there were 5 of them, not too bad for a first day, most routes wouldn't have anyone hardly.