Limits Garage

[MRChiCity]

Good evening,

I would like to know what routes were assigned to the old Limits Garage, and what buses were assigned there specifically between 1988 and 1994? Did Limits have any Americans or NF 1600's? Thanks   

 

 

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Good evening,

I would like to know what routes were assigned to the old Limits Garage, and what buses were assigned there specifically between 1988 and 1994? Did Limits have any Americans or NF 1600's? Thanks   

 

 

For routes, look at Chicago Transit and Railfan, Chicago Surface Routes History.

Basically confirms what I thought (and pretty much all split with another garage): 8, 9, 36, 37, and most Wilson routes (Wilson-Michigan, Wilson-LaSalle, maybe LaSalle-Sheridan).

Mostly GMC, some Flyers.

Before then included a few such as 58A (N. Ogden) , 74L (Fullerton-Zoo route), and 157 (Streeterville, although usually a K route).

[jajuan]

14 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Good evening,

I would like to know what routes were assigned to the old Limits Garage, and what buses were assigned there specifically between 1988 and 1994? Did Limits have any Americans or NF 1600's? Thanks   

 

 

As Busjack mentioned, when it came to buses it did have mostly GMC Fishbowls for a while. In its final few years of existence though starting at some point in 1991, it operated with only Flyers including all the 1600s when FG sent its Flyers there as FG got its allotment of Flx 5300s along with the additional fact that GMC 1000s got eliminated out of the bus fleet and remaining GMCs across the system were getting rearranged due to overall arrivals of the 4400s and 5300s. 

[MRChiCity]

Very interesting, how come limits never got any Americana's? And, which famous Hot Dog stand was limits down the street from?  

[Busjack]

On 3/25/2017 at 4:35 PM, MRChiCity said:

Very interesting, how come limits never got any Americana's? And, which famous Hot Dog stand was limits down the street from?  

Small garage. The only Flxs it got were 35 foot ones.

Also, while CTA was not as anal compulsive as it is now about limiting series in garages, it was pretty rare than any garage got more than 2 series, and with 1870 1970s era fishbowls, there wasn't much choice. A big move in 1976 was getting the 7400s out of 69th and Limits and replacing them with 9000s.On the other hand, it appears that Limits, and certainly 69th, didn't get any of the 1991 Flxs and TMCs.

I don't know of any famous hot dog stand, but there was a stand (don't remember if it was taco or hot dog) on some CBS documentary about being  a hangout for cocaine dealers. This was while my sister had an apartment on Pine Grove overlooking it.

[Busjack]

38 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Small garage.

The other thing to consider is that CTA has several inherited facilities that were small garages, capacity of something like 100-150 buses. In the 1970s, 52nd and 69th also qualified as that. Beverly apparently was also too small, which resulted in 103rd being built. It isn't like now where each garage is supposed to have about 250 buses minimum.

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Small garage. The only Flxs it got were 35 foot ones.

Also, while CTA was not as anal compulsive as it is now about limiting series in garages, it was pretty rare than any garage got more than 2 series, and with 1875 1970s era fishbowls, there wasn't much choice. A big move in 1976 was getting the 7400s out of 69th and Limits and replacing them with 9000s.On the other hand, it appears that Limits, and certainly 69th, didn't get any of the 1991 Flxs and TMCs.

I don't know of any famous hot dog stand, but there was a stand (don't remember if it was taco or hot dog) on some CBS documentary about being  a hangout for cocaine dealers. This was while my sister had an apartment on Pine Grove overlooking it.

Also the thing to consider is that CTA only purchased 362 Americanas. So there were only ever enough to get assigned to three or four garages at most if the allotments were kept to 90 to 100 buses. So the lucky garages at the time were 77th (its buses later moved to 103rd after 103rd was built), Kedzie, 69th (later 74th), and North Park. 

[mikeymc77]

Hot Dog place is or was called "Wieners Circle" I believe

 

[BusHunter]

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 10:41 PM, MRChiCity said:

Good evening,

I would like to know what routes were assigned to the old Limits Garage, and what buses were assigned there specifically between 1988 and 1994? Did Limits have any Americans or NF 1600's? Thanks   

 

 

If you look under my rosters I have the lifetime assignments for each bus including the #9800's and #1600s l linked at the bottom of the roster. You can see what exactly was at limits. I can tell you this. Because they were a small garage the buses there were nice. They had the #9200s and when fg got them they mostly were all repainted in the new red white and blue livery. They were the best of the 9000s series. I believe the #300's came out of limits including the heritage vehicle #301. Between the glen and limits that bus was always in better shape than the rest of the #300s. I want to say americanas were at limits because I believe I saw them there but they might have been loans. I believe they were some  of kedzies #4000 buses. Limits served alot of the buses that ran along the lakefront from belmont south like your #151 shortliners, #156 but they also shared on #8 with I believe 69th. They shared with np on the #36 and I want to say the #22 (not sure on that though) I have vague memories of them possibly serving the #145 and #146 locals that used to run on Saturdays cause I remember busfanning and there were #9900's on the route and those were not from np.interesting times I can still picture the garage there with the buses in it. 

[artthouwill]

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 10:41 PM, MRChiCity said:

Good evening,

I would like to know what routes were assigned to the old Limits Garage, and what buses were assigned there specifically between 1988 and 1994? Did Limits have any Americans or NF 1600's? Thanks   

 

 

IIRC the 8 Halsted which was shared with  77th, then  69th, the 9 Ashland  which was shared with 69th, 36 Broadway  short turns to Waveland, the 153 Wilson/Michigan  (when eliminated  became the  151 Sheridan  short trips  between  Belmont  and Michigan/Congress,)  the 156 LaSalle,  the 145 Wilson/Michigan  Express,  the old 149 Stateliner, the 157 Streeterville. I can't  remember if  the Wilson/LaSalle Express  ran from  there.

[Busjack]

On 3/26/2017 at 7:40 PM, BusHunter said:

I believe the #300's came out of limits including the heritage vehicle #301.

In the early 1970s, it was mostly 300s. It might have had a few 100s, but those seemed mostly at Beverly and Lawndale. When 69th was converted from propane to diesel in 1973, it got 100s and the 800s (the 800s were removed from Evanston).

In the mid-1970s, the pine and lime buses had stickers about "Limits Garage, Quality Maintenance," but I think some other garages had comparable stickers.

On 3/26/2017 at 8:10 PM, artthouwill said:

the old 149 Stateliner

Most of those were Kedzie, especially when they had the 149 Stateliner roof signs.

On 3/26/2017 at 8:10 PM, artthouwill said:

. I can't  remember if  the Wilson/LaSalle Express  ran from  there.

They usually did. I indicated also Sheridan-LaSalle. That kickstarted my memory that while there were some from NP, most were from Limits, and again I remember one in 1976 that was supposed to go to Devon (signed Broadway Rosemont) that turned south at Granville. Since I was transferring to 155, I called that in, asking for the Limits transportation office, and they connected me. When I worked on LaSalle and lived near Devon, it was a tossup whether the L or bus was quicker, but that lasted only about a year.

[jajuan]

The memories of the listed routes are mostly correct from what I remember of info given on Bill V's site in the section giving the histories of CTA's bus routes from the days of CTA's predecessors on up to the present day. Though on the LaSalle Expresses, I believe it was pretty much only the 135 that was assigned there while 136 was pretty much NP's as I only every remember NP Fishbowls, Americanas, 4400s, 5800s, and MAN artics of the 7000 and 7100 series on the 136 when Limits' still existed during my childhood through late teen years.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, jajuan said:

I believe it was pretty much only the 135 that was assigned there while 136 was pretty much NP's as I only every remember NP Fishbowls, Americanas, 4400s, 5800s, and MAN artics of the 7000, and 7100 series during my childhood, teenage and early adult years when Limits still existed.

It depends how far back. I was citing the mid 1970s, when most of the various LaSalle Express buses were basically unnumbered and were variants of 156 on the maps, and maybe into the first year (1976) of 135-136. Yours seem after that. The assignment of artics indicates that 136 must have had capacity problems that were addressed about 1979, when I wasn't around.

[MRChiCity]

So limits would sometimes get Americana's from Kedzie? Interesting, and who thinks closing and tearing Limits down was a mistake? 

[MRChiCity]

23 hours ago, mikeymc77 said:

Hot Dog place is or was called "Wieners Circle" I believe

 

Yes, and the Wieners Circle is still there. I've been there and experienced the,"atmosphere." 

[jajuan]

19 minutes ago, Busjack said:

It depends how far back. I was citing the mid 1970s, when most of the various LaSalle Express buses were basically unnumbered and were variants of 156 on the maps, and maybe into the first year (1976) of 135-136. Yours seem after that. The assignment of artics indicates that 136 must have had capacity problems that were addressed about 1979, when I wasn't around.

Yeah my memories of Limits are 1980s through its closing in summer of 1994. My memories of artics on 136 start about late 80s a short period before seeing the first test drives of the 4400s before they became revenue active. Before that, I remember only really seeing 40 foot buses. But when artics did start getting assigned on runs, they were in limited numbers because of CTA's artic count then being less than half of what it is today. 

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

So limits would sometimes get Americana's from Kedzie? Interesting, and who thinks closing and tearing Limits down was a mistake? 

I think he meant that there were some loaners on what were presumed to be Limits routes. Essentially Kedzie ended up getting most of Limits routes, other than those going north of Belmont that went to NP. In the latter regard, it didn't matter.

Not having a northern terminal for 8 and 9 left them somewhat unbalanced with regard to needing southbound garage trips, but otherwise eliminating Limits didn't make much of any difference, as it didn't handle crosstown trips in its area (most of which were handled by North-Cicero) nor much of 22 or 36.

The issue basically came down to the same as Archer. There was a proposal to build a garage at around Diversey and Elston, but CTA decided it didn't need it. One also has to consider that CTA had about 2400 some buses in the 1970s-1980s and about 1800 some now.

[MRChiCity]

So closing Limits was not that big of a deal unless your name is John Kass, so how often would Kedzie loan it's Americana's to Limits? 

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

So closing Limits was not that big of a deal unless your name is John Kass, so how often would Kedzie loan it's Americana's to Limits? 

It was never really that major as memory serves, It was more often than not a small handful at most, no more than two or three here and there, for a day or two every few months if that. It was pretty much on par with how often loans are done today which are themselves relatively rare on the grand scheme of things. So it was pretty rare to see an Americana numbered 4000-4096 (Kedzie's usual range most of the time up until the late 1990s except between mid-1994 thru mid 1996 when those above about 4074 given to 69th/74th to help run the 38 Michigan Express during Green Line shutdown) on the 37 or 156 for example from any loans done.

[MRChiCity]

So what did they do to the 1600's flyers at Limits after it closed? 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

So what did they do to the 1600's flyers at Limits after it closed? 

Mostly FG. A few might have been scattered to 77 or C.

From what @jajuan said, there were only a few years when FG didn't have them, since by 1995, FG was only 5500s and Flyers.

Update: The ones with 2 x 1 seating tended to go to heavy routes like 152, since cramming in the passengers was a higher priority than seating them.

[busfan2847]

5 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

So what did they do to the 1600's flyers at Limits after it closed? 

The 1600s were new to FG moving to Limits in 1991, then Kedzie in 1994 before moving back to Forest Glen in 1997

[MRChiCity]

So at the basically between 1991 and 1994 Limits had 1600's and 9800's with Some Americana's loaned for the day? Just where would they Park the Americana's if the garage was small? Outside? Thanks

[jajuan]

On 4/25/2017 at 6:31 PM, busfan2847 said:

The 1600s were new to FG moving to Limits in 1991, then Kedzie in 1994 before moving back to Forest Glen in 1997

I had been thinking 1996 for the move of Flyers from Kedzie to FG due to Kedzie getting back Americanas that had been loaned to 69th/74th for the #38 Michigan Express Green Line replacement after that route ended in May 1996 a few months after the Green Line reopened (plus some extras up to about 4108 from Americanas being increasingly displaced at 74th as that garage got the last of the Flxible 6000s). I had forgotten that some Flyers remained at Kedzie an extra year before getting pushed to FG, that move being part of the larger move in 1997 to fill in gaps left by the final retirements of Fishbowls at FG, Archer, and 77th, which unlke NP and 69th/74th didn't have Americanas that could operate service on routes not yet designated wheelchair accessible after the Fishbowls got retired.

[MRChiCity]

Found this picture of Limits with a MAN bus https://dc.library.northwestern.edu/items/72641359-8d47-4d58-8b3e-5ff4115dac86