What to Do With Surplus Artics

[Sam92]

4 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah I see where you're coming from now, A happy medium would be for CTA to have no more than 280 - 320 Artics spread evenly throughout the system. 35 out of 193 would be too low of a number under the current circumstances for 7 as they would need them for more than just the 4 and 79 unless they interline certain trips from the 2, 3, X4 and 8. I've always wanted the 8 to have certain trips (using artics) start from UIC-Halsted for the PM rush to go as far south as Root then deadhead to either Randolph/Columbus or Ontario/Fairbanks to help supplement there afterwards. The 2 could work the same as the 192 deadhead do in the morning for certain trips interlining with the 3, 4 , or 79. It's possible to run artics are multiple routes for a trip the same way NP does. It's just a matter of having enough equipment to do it successfully. 

4 also uses a lot of buses so again if everything was fixed and thus the 4300s being an 80 bus surplus... That surplus would be able to entirely equip 79 with the 45 buses out of that 80 leaving 35, 4 with artics probably needs 35 so you have that but where are the spares (with the 320 you suggested vs our 308 that covers the spare ratio for 4). Now bringing BRT back up, that would decrease run times for Pulaski, Cottage Grove and Fullerton so the reduced fleet requirements from high speeds and reduced local service means that 100 artics to replace the 4300s might end up going to C and 77 for that purpose. We know they can't be used on the Garfield and western service for obvious reasons lol

[Master58]

On 10/20/2025 at 9:04 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Technically NP has 100 active artics not oos while 103rd has 55. Seems like a good balance to me between the two garages. Look at the work they do and you tell me if it suffices NP needing less.

NP roster

 

4014 - 4022 ,4024- 4032, 4110, 4123- 4126, 4128- 4171

 

4196- 4207

 

4325, 4334- 4399 

 

Kedzie roster

 

4001- 4004, 4006, 4009- 4013, 4023, 4038 - 4039, 4041, 4042, 4044, 4049 , 4050, 4052 - 4062, 4069, 4071- 4082, 4084- 4089, 4092- 4096, 4098- 4100, 4104, 4127

 

103rd roster 

 

4000, 4005, 4011, 4033 - 4037 , 4040, 4045- 4048, 4051, 4063- 4068, 4070, 4083, 4090, 4091, 4097, 4101 - 4103, 4105- 4109, 4111, 4112 - 4116, 4172- 4195, 4301-4322, 4324, 4326- 4332 

 

OOS

 

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381. 40

 

K 4002, 4038, 4039 , 4044, 4057, 4060, 4061, 4062 , 4072 , 4080 , 4086, 4088 , 4089 , 4094, 4100. 15

 

 

103rd 4033, 4048, 4064, 4102, 4103, 4105, 4107, 4112, 4114 - 4116, 4118, 4172- 4174, 4178, 4181, 4182 , 4183, 4185 - 4189, 4191 - 4193, 4195 , 4300, 4302, 4307, 4309, 4311, 4316, 4318, 35

 

 

If NP has 100 active and 40 OOS, then they shouldn't exceed over 100. 

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Master58 said:

NP roster

 

4014 - 4022 ,4024- 4032, 4110, 4123- 4126, 4128- 4171

 

4196- 4207

 

4325, 4334- 4399 

 

Kedzie roster

 

4001- 4004, 4006, 4009- 4013, 4023, 4038 - 4039, 4041, 4042, 4044, 4049 , 4050, 4052 - 4062, 4069, 4071- 4082, 4084- 4089, 4092- 4096, 4098- 4100, 4104, 4127

 

103rd roster 

 

4000, 4005, 4011, 4033 - 4037 , 4040, 4045- 4048, 4051, 4063- 4068, 4070, 4083, 4090, 4091, 4097, 4101 - 4103, 4105- 4109, 4111, 4112 - 4116, 4172- 4195, 4301-4322, 4324, 4326- 4332 

 

OOS

 

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381. 40

 

K 4002, 4038, 4039 , 4044, 4057, 4060, 4061, 4062 , 4072 , 4080 , 4086, 4088 , 4089 , 4094, 4100. 15

 

 

103rd 4033, 4048, 4064, 4102, 4103, 4105, 4107, 4112, 4114 - 4116, 4118, 4172- 4174, 4178, 4181, 4182 , 4183, 4185 - 4189, 4191 - 4193, 4195 , 4300, 4302, 4307, 4309, 4311, 4316, 4318, 35

 

 

If NP has 100 active and 40 OOS, then they shouldn't exceed over 100. 

Spare ratios are important.........

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

NP roster

 

4014 - 4022 ,4024- 4032, 4110, 4123- 4126, 4128- 4171

 

4196- 4207

 

4325, 4334- 4399 

 

Kedzie roster

 

4001- 4004, 4006, 4009- 4013, 4023, 4038 - 4039, 4041, 4042, 4044, 4049 , 4050, 4052 - 4062, 4069, 4071- 4082, 4084- 4089, 4092- 4096, 4098- 4100, 4104, 4127

 

103rd roster 

 

4000, 4005, 4011, 4033 - 4037 , 4040, 4045- 4048, 4051, 4063- 4068, 4070, 4083, 4090, 4091, 4097, 4101 - 4103, 4105- 4109, 4111, 4112 - 4116, 4172- 4195, 4301-4322, 4324, 4326- 4332 

 

OOS

 

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381. 40

 

K 4002, 4038, 4039 , 4044, 4057, 4060, 4061, 4062 , 4072 , 4080 , 4086, 4088 , 4089 , 4094, 4100. 15

 

 

103rd 4033, 4048, 4064, 4102, 4103, 4105, 4107, 4112, 4114 - 4116, 4118, 4172- 4174, 4178, 4181, 4182 , 4183, 4185 - 4189, 4191 - 4193, 4195 , 4300, 4302, 4307, 4309, 4311, 4316, 4318, 35

 

 

If NP has 100 active and 40 OOS, then they shouldn't exceed over 100. 

 

37 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Spare ratios are important.........

Did you apply the minimum spare ratio as I described earlier? I already met you halfway by saying them (the whole system) has excess but they're only 20 over the spare ratio (100 active x 20% spare ratio = 120 to meet needs). Whats making even less sense... If my math is right, 103rd has 93 assigned, only 31 were in service last week in the rush but only 35 are OOS....27 are still unaccounted cause most of what showed up was on J14, 6/26 got whatever was left (one day I counted 1 4000 on the 6). So what gives with that, is #6 kinda whatever at this point? I feel like some milage trading with K could have lessened the blow seeing as they tend to be more gentle on artics.

[Master58]

2 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Spare ratios are important.........

10 extra artics is a little excessive.  

 

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

 

Did you apply the minimum spare ratio as I described earlier? I already met you halfway by saying them (the whole system) has excess but they're only 20 over the spare ratio (100 active x 20% spare ratio = 120 to meet needs). Whats making even less sense... If my math is right, 103rd has 93 assigned, only 31 were in service last week in the rush but only 35 are OOS....27 are still unaccounted cause most of what showed up was on J14, 6/26 got whatever was left (one day I counted 1 4000 on the 6). So what gives with that, is #6 kinda whatever at this point? I feel like some milage trading with K could have lessened the blow seeing as they tend to be more gentle on artics.

I said earlier in the tread NP doesn't need 130 artics.  They have 140 assigned.  Let's make the NP fans happy and give them 130 artics.  That's still 10 extra artics.  

 

103rd doesn't want to maintain their artics for some peculiar reason. That's one of reasons they're short. 

[Sam92]

34 minutes ago, Master58 said:

10 extra artics is a little excessive.  

 

I said earlier in the tread NP doesn't need 130 artics.  They have 140 assigned.  Let's make the NP fans happy and give them 130 artics.  That's still 10 extra artics.  

 

103rd doesn't want to maintain their artics for some peculiar reason. That's one of reasons they're short. 

And again... ALL 3 GARAGES HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXCESS. 

It's the lesser of evils between trying to split them between 66 and 79 which fails cause there's not enough for both or pick 66 or 79 to equip but then spread the issue to ANOTHER garage. Obviously 103 and K can't do anything with them if you moved them and unless you can find a way for NP to take up all of 49/X49 (a route that could be justified for artics) what do you want them to do about it until they get the ball rolling on the possible BRT for 4, 74 and 53?

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, Master58 said:

103rd doesn't want to maintain their artics for some peculiar reason. That's one of reasons they're short.

Didn't someone with the screen name @Master58 say that he didn't say anything about 103rd? Then he just did. Read what I quoted immediately above. 103 apparently has an excess but needs MORE because it can't maintain what it has. Don't be a hypocrite. To put it in about your terms, that's not hard, is it?

[Master58]

29 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Didn't someone with the screen name @Master58 say that he didn't say anything about 103rd? Then he just did. Read what I quoted immediately above. 103 apparently has an excess but needs MORE because it can't maintain what it has. Don't be a hypocrite. To put it in about your terms, that's not hard, is it?

I thought we clarified that emoney said 103rd needs more artics.  I said they're short of artics because of maintenance.  I never said they NEED MORE ARTICS.  

[Master58]

55 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

And again... ALL 3 GARAGES HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXCESS. 

It's the lesser of evils between trying to split them between 66 and 79 which fails cause there's not enough for both or pick 66 or 79 to equip but then spread the issue to ANOTHER garage. Obviously 103 and K can't do anything with them if you moved them and unless you can find a way for NP to take up all of 49/X49 (a route that could be justified for artics) what do you want them to do about it until they get the ball rolling on the possible BRT for 4, 74 and 53?

Then it's time to send some to the scrapper. The numbers aren't lying. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

I thought we clarified that emoney said 103rd needs more artics.  I said they're short of artics because of maintenance.  I never said they NEED MORE ARTICS.  

Apparently, simple logic evades you. From above" I [i.e. @Master58] said they're short of artics because of maintenance.  I never said they NEED MORE ARTICS. " If they don't need more artics, then they are NOT short. You're talking from both sides of your mouth.

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

Then it's time to send some to the scrapper.

Maybe @Sam92 got you to say what you mean, after he did all the work for you. But as I said in the budget topic, the logical thing is to write the CTA and say that the 5-year capital plan is wasting money by proposing 208 electric artics to replace 4000-series buses and rehabbing the 4300 series buses. But:

• I know you won't do that.
• Even if you did, your lack of logic and LOLs wouldn't persuade anyone.

Don't treat me like I'm an idiot when you can't give a straight answer to a question, act like I didn't see that @Sam92 answered the question for you, and, generally speaking, can't articulate your thoughts. In your language, SMH.

[Master58]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Apparently, simple logic evades you. From above" I [i.e. @Master58] said they're short of artics because of maintenance.  I never said they NEED MORE ARTICS. " If they don't need more artics, then they are NOT short. You're talking from both sides of your mouth.

Maybe @Sam92 got you to say what you mean, after he did all the work for you. But as I said in the budget topic, the logical thing is to write the CTA and say that the 5-year capital plan is wasting money by proposing 208 electric artics to replace 4000-series buses and rehabbing the 4300 series buses. But:

• I know you won't do that.
• Even if you did, your lack of logic and LOLs wouldn't persuade anyone.

Don't treat me like I'm an idiot when you can't give a straight answer to a question, act like I didn't see that @Sam92 answered the question for you, and, generally speaking, can't articulate your thoughts. In your language, SMH.

We keep going in circles. 

I say the sky is blue.  You say the sky is purple. I present data from the tracker. You say the sky is turquoise now. Lol 

It's logic vs emotions. 

You're acting like a idiot at the moment.

 Logically NP doesn't need 140 artics.  We can also throw in 103rd and Kedzie.  As the data shows that. 

But emotionally NP does need 140 artics lol. 

But @Busjack needs to be right and master58 needs to be wrong.  Lol. 

You have yet to articulate why NP needs 140 artics.  

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

12 hours ago, Busjack said:

103 apparently has an excess but needs MORE because it can't maintain what it has.

they did ship out 4014-4032 to NP a few months ago and then kedzie sent some random ones down to 103rd for some reason, maybe 103rd is tryna die down on artics due to the fact they are only being used on the 6/14/26 and certain trips on the 192

as for North Park……140 is diabolical but at the same time would make sense because you got the 22/135/136/146/147/148/151 and 152 school trips that rely on artics and now for the season you got bears games as well so you need extras on the 146 for that, and this weekend for that Loop “L” service shutdown they got a lot of artics OOS being used for shuttles while also using the ones they have available to put into live service…..so NP having more would make more sense then sending more to a garage that can’t seem to handle or maintain them, every artic 103rd gets goes OOS for a while…..comes back….boom OOS again. 

[Sam92]

11 hours ago, Master58 said:

 

You have yet to articulate why NP needs 140 artics.  

You have yet to articulate where are we gonna put them if CTA doesn't feel like scrapping them yet 🤭 NP has had around this amount since 2012-13 

[Javi75]

I don’t see any artics on the 135/136/148 in the evening rush and the 135 out the three is the only one using artics in the morning rush. Not every 146 and 147 is an artic either at any time of the day. The 151 is artic heavy with a mix of 40 footers and 22 is a mixed bag. 

2 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

they did ship out 4014-4032 to NP a few months ago and then kedzie sent some random ones down to 103rd for some reason, maybe 103rd is tryna die down on artics due to the fact they are only being used on the 6/14/26 and certain trips on the 192

as for North Park……140 is diabolical but at the same time would make sense because you got the 22/135/136/146/147/148/151 and 152 school trips that rely on artics and now for the season you got bears games as well so you need extras on the 146 for that, and this weekend for that Loop “L” service shutdown they got a lot of artics OOS being used for shuttles while also using the ones they have available to put into live service…..so NP having more would make more sense then sending more to a garage that can’t seem to handle or maintain them, every artic 103rd gets goes OOS for a while…..comes back….boom OOS again. 

 

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

23 minutes ago, Javi75 said:

I don’t see any artics on the 135/136/148 in the evening rush and the 135 out the three is the only one using artics in the morning rush. Not every 146 and 147 is an artic either at any time of the day. The 151 is artic heavy with a mix of 40 footers and 22 is a mixed bag. 

 

you’ll see a select number of em in the PM on the 135/136 under SS-55x cuz those runs come from shops and do a few trips on the feeder routes

[Sam92]

10 minutes ago, Javi75 said:

I don’t see any artics on the 135/136/148 in the evening rush and the 135 out the three is the only one using artics in the morning rush. Not every 146 and 147 is an artic either at any time of the day. The 151 is artic heavy with a mix of 40 footers and 22 is a mixed bag. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

they did ship out 4014-4032 to NP a few months ago and then kedzie sent some random ones down to 103rd for some reason, maybe 103rd is tryna die down on artics due to the fact they are only being used on the 6/14/26 and certain trips on the 192

as for North Park……140 is diabolical but at the same time would make sense because you got the 22/135/136/146/147/148/151 and 152 school trips that rely on artics and now for the season you got bears games as well so you need extras on the 146 for that, and this weekend for that Loop “L” service shutdown they got a lot of artics OOS being used for shuttles while also using the ones they have available to put into live service…..so NP having more would make more sense then sending more to a garage that can’t seem to handle or maintain them, every artic 103rd gets goes OOS for a while…..comes back….boom OOS again. 

Ever since COVID the consistency of assignments is a bit lax. Before COVID 135/136 pretty much only needed artics AM and the early PM, those then would turn into 22s. You at least show that NP is more likely to make use of them for bus bridges in the area. What still isn't making sense is we know the  35 OOS buses are obviously at SS or whereever else buses that need work get held.... Are we sure the rosters are right? Cause that doesn't explain the other 30 so buses that aren't being used on 6 and 26 (just checked this week's deployments.... Same as last week with 2-5 artics showing up on 6/26)

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, Master58 said:

You have yet to articulate why NP needs 140 artics.  

It isn't MY burden to say whether NP does or doesn't -need 140 (apparently now 141) artics. Other than being lazy and letting @Sam92 do your work for you, you DID NOT provide any enpirical evidence for your assertions about how many NP has, nor your assertion that 103 is short because of maintenance. Do you work at NP or 103? Are you a dispatcher?

And why, when asked about the situation systemwide,  do you robotically repeat "NP does need 140 artics lol"? Did you let ChatGPT take over your posts? Or do all the LOLs show that you have your head up your touches? Intead you rely on facile lieralism, LOL, and now accusing someone of emotionalism to try to avoid giving direct answers. I'm sure it is because you don't have any.

Stay away from the Internet, if all you can do is repeat nonsense.

[Master58]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

It isn't MY burden to say whether NP does or doesn't -need 140 (apparently now 141) artics. Other than being lazy and letting @Sam92 do your work for you, you DID NOT provide any enpirical evidence for your assertions about how many NP has, nor your assertion that 103 is short because of maintenance. Do you work at NP or 103? Are you a dispatcher?

And why, when asked about the situation systemwide,  do you robotically repeat "NP does need 140 artics lol"? Did you let ChatGPT take over your posts? Or do all the LOLs show that you have your head up your touches? Intead you rely on facile lieralism, LOL, and now accusing someone of emotionalism to try to avoid giving direct answers. I'm sure it is because you don't have any.

Stay away from the Internet, if all you can do is repeat nonsense.

NP roster

4014 - 4022 ,4024- 4032,  4110, 4123- 4126, 4128- 4171

4196- 4207

4325, 4334- 4399

Kedzie roster

4001- 4004, 4006, 4009- 4013, 4023, 4038 - 4039, 4041, 4042, 4044, 4049 , 4050, 4052 - 4062, 4069, 4071- 4082, 4084- 4089, 4092- 4096, 4098- 4100, 4104, 4127

103rd roster

4000, 4005, 4011, 4033 - 4037 , 4040, 4045- 4048, 4051, 4063- 4068, 4070, 4083, 4090, 4091, 4097, 4101 - 4103, 4105- 4109, 4111, 4112 - 4116, 4172- 4195, 4301-4322,  4324, 4326- 4332

OOS

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381.    40

K  4002, 4038, 4039 , 4044, 4057, 4060, 4061, 4062 , 4072 , 4080 , 4086, 4088 , 4089 , 4094, 4100. 15


103rd  4033, 4048, 4064, 4102, 4103, 4105, 4107, 4112, 4114 - 4116, 4118, 4172- 4174, 4178, 4181, 4182 , 4183, 4185 - 4189, 4191 - 4193, 4195 , 4300, 4302, 4307, 4309, 4311, 4316, 4318, 35

 

Here you go. If you still can't comprehend. Don't know what else to tell you.  

All you have done is come up with insults throughout this whole thread.  

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, Master58 said:

NP roster

Your source? You didn't say (other than "the tracker," which only shows scheduled buses on a route).

Also your source that NP didn't need that many? You didn't say.

Your source that 103 was short due to maintenance issues? You didn't even attempt to say. If I tried to attribute one to you, you would say 'I NEVER SAID..." But I bet you don't work at its maintenance shop.

Put your pique in the garbage can and BE RESPONSIVE for a change.

15 hours ago, Master58 said:

You're acting like a idiot at the moment.

You're accusing me of engaging in insults, yet you posted that? And you don't even know the correct article to put before a vowel. Hypocrite.

[Master58]

16 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Your source? You didn't say (other than "the tracker," which only shows scheduled buses on a route).

Also your source that NP didn't need that many? You didn't say.

Your source that 103 was short due to maintenance issues? You didn't even attempt to say. If I tried to attribute one to you, you would say 'I NEVER SAID..." But I bet you don't work at its maintenance shop.

Put your pique in the garbage can and BE RESPONSIVE for a change.

You're accusing me of engaging in insults, yet you posted that? And you don't even know the correct article to put before a vowel. Hypocrite.

Source: https://buswatch.scj.me/series

[Sam92]

50 minutes ago, Master58 said:

NP roster

4014 - 4022 ,4024- 4032,  4110, 4123- 4126, 4128- 4171

4196- 4207

4325, 4334- 4399

Kedzie roster

4001- 4004, 4006, 4009- 4013, 4023, 4038 - 4039, 4041, 4042, 4044, 4049 , 4050, 4052 - 4062, 4069, 4071- 4082, 4084- 4089, 4092- 4096, 4098- 4100, 4104, 4127

103rd roster

4000, 4005, 4011, 4033 - 4037 , 4040, 4045- 4048, 4051, 4063- 4068, 4070, 4083, 4090, 4091, 4097, 4101 - 4103, 4105- 4109, 4111, 4112 - 4116, 4172- 4195, 4301-4322,  4324, 4326- 4332

OOS

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381.    40

K  4002, 4038, 4039 , 4044, 4057, 4060, 4061, 4062 , 4072 , 4080 , 4086, 4088 , 4089 , 4094, 4100. 15


103rd  4033, 4048, 4064, 4102, 4103, 4105, 4107, 4112, 4114 - 4116, 4118, 4172- 4174, 4178, 4181, 4182 , 4183, 4185 - 4189, 4191 - 4193, 4195 , 4300, 4302, 4307, 4309, 4311, 4316, 4318, 35

 

Here you go. If you still can't comprehend. Don't know what else to tell you.  

All you have done is come up with insults throughout this whole thread.  

Ok we're pass this step.... WHAT CAN BE DONE THAT HASNT BEEN DONE OR WONT MAKE IT WORSE? We tried C and 77. Do you know of a way for another garage to take 20 buses worth of work from NP so they can fully take over Western and try them there? Outside of that idk what you expect to accomplish by singling out one garage out of 3 that have the same issue especially when if we're breaking down numbers; out of a SYSTEM WIDE 80 artic surplus, NP on has 20 surplus compared to 103 that going by recent deployments has 30 OOS and another 30 unaccounted for. 

[Busjack]

30 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Ok we're pass this step.... WHAT CAN BE DONE THAT HASNT BEEN DONE OR WONT MAKE IT WORSE? We tried C and 77. Do you know of a way for another garage to take 20 buses worth of work from NP so they can fully take over Western and try them there? Outside of that idk what you expect to accomplish by singling out one garage out of 3 that have the same issue especially when if we're breaking down numbers; out of a SYSTEM WIDE 80 artic surplus, NP on has 20 surplus compared to 103 that going by recent deployments has 30 OOS and another 30 unaccounted for. 

Only 2 things of which I can think:

• There was a time they were on 66, which has bus lanes east of Spaulding. Obviously, 66 is supposed to go electric, so we may debate whether that means ZX5s or XE60s, but certainly not these garbage heaps.
• Since you mentioned COVID, during COVID, artics were on 4 when half the seats were taped off, and I believe 4 had some NABIs.

On the other hand:

• They don't work if the streetscape isn't compatible, such as narrow streets, short bus stops, etc., such as 79 in Chatham. But I don't see how they work on 22 or 82, euther. (They could move 82 to NP.)
• As 79 also proved, they don't work in mixed service with 40' buses. A delayed artic causes the 40 ft. buses to bunch behind it. That would apply to 49/X49 so long as 74 has most of it and that garage is not upgraded, as well as (based on the posted run guides) 49/X49 is interlined with routes such as 93.
• They don't seem to work on X routes. Maybe increased dwell times outweigh anything gained by skipping stops.
• On some routes you mentioned, service has increased, such as X4 not replacing some 4s, and overlapping service on Pulaski between the Orange Line and 76th, so additional capacity is not needed.

[Master58]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Ok we're pass this step.... WHAT CAN BE DONE THAT HASNT BEEN DONE OR WONT MAKE IT WORSE? We tried C and 77. Do you know of a way for another garage to take 20 buses worth of work from NP so they can fully take over Western and try them there? Outside of that idk what you expect to accomplish by singling out one garage out of 3 that have the same issue especially when if we're breaking down numbers; out of a SYSTEM WIDE 80 artic surplus, NP on has 20 surplus compared to 103 that going by recent deployments has 30 OOS and another 30 unaccounted for. 

Retire them.

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, Busjack said:

Only 2 things of which I can think:

• There was a time they were on 66, which has bus lanes east of Spaulding. Obviously, 66 is supposed to go electric, so we may debate whether that means ZX5s or XE60s, but certainly not these garbage heaps.
• Since you mentioned COVID, during COVID, artics were on 4 when half the seats were taped off, and I believe 4 had some NABIs.

On the other hand:

• They don't work if the streetscape isn't compatible, such as narrow streets, short bus stops, etc., such as 79 in Chatham. But I don't see how they work on 22 or 82, euther. (They could move 82 to NP.)
• As 79 also proved, they don't work in mixed service with 40' buses. A delayed artic causes the 40 ft. buses to bunch behind it. That would apply to 49/X49 so long as 74 has most of it and that garage is not upgraded, as well as (based on the posted run guides) 49/X49 is interlined with routes such as 93.
• They don't seem to work on X routes. Maybe increased dwell times outweigh anything gained by skipping stops.
• On some routes you mentioned, service has increased, such as X4 not replacing some 4s, and overlapping service on Pulaski between the Orange Line and 76th, so additional capacity is not needed.

Based off what happened with the 4300s it seems that after the Ryan rebuild the intent was for them to help equip 66 and 79 so after the Ryan reopened majority of the final 4300s went to 77th with 5 going to C training on them for a pick. There were some weekends where similar to the #12 at K that #3 was all artic along with 79 according to other posters. 79 didn't mix 40's unless they were short or doing a Queen of Peace run but they were mixed on 2 for a good while with sporadic runs on 4 and 8.  Then 15 artics each from 7 and 103 went to C along with some from P for 66. I'm pretty sure as far as electrics it's the 600s. 

All artic 82 service on weekends was a short lived thing that started with the 2010 cuts like #12 but ended soon after leaving just the school trips interlined with an express bus as the only artics. I've seen people say the amount of stop signs were an issues and others think it was the mall. 

As far as 22 Andre said the running times on 22 were slow enough to make artics work there... now 79 did quietly cut back frequency when they tried them but the increase in run time probably meant adding back what they tried to cut which as I noted earlier meant that that made C and 77 short about 5-6 artics each; even though both had other artic worthy routes those routes also required around the same amount of buses so same issue thus we ended up here. 

We never really tested artics on X routes here unless a random leftover popped up in a case similar to one appearing on 52 or 126 so this would be a first here if they do go to the BRT which is basically gonna be an X with BRT features. Even in cases where X is an added service vs cutting out a local the X wouldn't use as many as the local so possibly that might allow them to split the artics among them and still have a spare ratio but who knows? If they end up going through with replacing the 4300s with artics as the budget says that's the only way they can try without having them sit like the current situation and the garages can house them unless 12 years of rail projects needing 100 shuttles pop up 🤷

As I said with @Master58about 49/X49 we also have the headache of having to move enough work out of NP to take in 74th's share of 49 and X49 seems to do the job anyway as @jajuanfrequently points out about that and Ashland. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

22 hours ago, Master58 said:

NP 4008, 4016, 4024, 4031, 4033, 4110, 4119 , 4123, 4125, 4131, 4132, 4137, 4138, 4141, 4142, 4145, 4151, 4152, 4153, 4159, 4161, 4166- 4169, 4197- 4198, 4202- 4205, 4207, 4341- 4342, 4352, 4358, 4364, 4371, 4375, 4381.    40

knock this down to 39 please, 4371 is a ghost bus.