NICTD/South Shore Line

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Elkmn said:

Where would they get the highliner I's from? arent they all scrapped or in museums?

Despite what the secretary of NICTD implied,* they are not the St. Louis or Bombardier cars of the 1970s, but current Metra 1201-1226.  That should have been clear by the reference to Nippon Sharyo.  Start reading about here . See also this FB post.

_______________________

*Metra referred to them as being HL-1, too. Apparently distinguishing them from the later order of 1227-1387.

2 hours ago, Elkmn said:

, they really need new trains, like Silverliner Vs (built for 1500 v)  or just like something from stadler.

Both NICTD and Metra (again see) said there was nothing else available compatible with the catenary. Do you have engineering experience to prove them wrong?

2 hours ago, Elkmn said:

Metra should really look into running extra trains to hegewisch though, it's truly criminal how little transit goes there.

Do you have ridership studies to back that up? I doubt it. By comparison, there used to be regular ME service weekends on the Blue Island branch; now there's only 3 inbound and 4 outbound trains, Sat. only.

Your post indicates that you are engaged in foaming.
 

[Elkmn]

 

9 hours ago, Busjack said:

Your post indicates that you are engaged in foaming.

 

Gee, how'd you know?

Well, I'm not completely opposed to the newer highliners either, but as people have said, the westlake service might not need all that capacity. I'm still holding out for the ssl putting out an rfp for new trains and the highliners being temporary. At the end of the day, I'm just glad the ssl still exists, even if i'm not too fond of highliners.

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Elkmn said:

-----Gee, how'd you know?

I can recognize it. A combination of not looking in this topic for relevant information, statements like "but as people have said, the westlake service might not need all that capacity" when it has been said multiple times that they are not for the West Lake Corridor (note the verbiage and capitalization NICTD uses), apparently not reading documents to which others link (see below) and throwing out terms like "stadler" or "criminal" without considering their application.

1 hour ago, Elkmn said:

I'm still holding out for the ssl putting out an rfp for new trains and the highliners being temporary. At the end of the day, I'm just glad the ssl still exists, even if i'm not too fond of highliners.

If you had read the NICTD document I pasted above (and I'm sure you didn't), it said "NICTD sought proposals for the production and delivery of new passenger cars for service on the South Shore Line between South Bend and Millennium Station in Chicago, Illinois. NICTD received an offer to lease 26 HL1 cars from the METRA." There was an RFP. The document also said it is a "15-year lease." I hope you "look forward" to waiting 15 years. And I hope you can read and understand my post.

[busfan2847]

12 hours ago, Elkmn said:

Where would they get the highliner I's from? arent they all scrapped or in museums? even if there are HL-Is available, it still seems like a step backwards, given that hl-1s are similar in very many ways to crappy old pullman/budd coaches on the diesel network. From some wikipedia snooping, I've discovered that seattle LINK light rail vehicles also use 1500 volts so..... 

 

In all seriousness, i wouldnt be completely opposed to SSL using more highliners as a stand in, but for the long run, they really need new trains, like Silverliner Vs (built for 1500 v)  or just like something from stadler. Metra should really look into running extra trains to hegewisch though, it's truly criminal how little transit goes there.

The HL-1 quoted are 1201-1226 the prototype new Highliners delivered in 2005/6. Metra has enough production HL-2 units (1227-1386) to provide service and had sidelined the prototype units.

[Busjack]

On 4/14/2024 at 7:15 PM, Busjack said:

A Nippon Sharyo picture appears to show a srairwell under the double doors, so I guess there;s a trap there, but I don't know what Metra did with the rebuild.

I knew I saw somewhere a Nippon Sharyo picture with a stairwell under the double doors in an electric car. The post in which I referred to it is here, but, predictably, after 19 years, the link is dead.

[Elkmn]

I think it's best if I leave this specific topic, after all, a good 75% of my experience with the south shore line is from maps, schedules and this. I've got a lot of opinions about the SSL, but I think most of these aren't practical. I'll see myself out.

[renardo870]

Good evening, everyone. Here it is...the new South Shore schedule effective Tuesday May 14th, 2024. Weekday schedule changes includes...eight WB trains will originate from Gary Miller to the Loop and six EB trains will terminate at Gary Miller and trains to/from South Bend will not stop at Carroll Ave but instead 11th Street. Three WB trips will originate at Carroll Ave while six new WB trips will originate @11th Street during AM rush hours. Running times have been adjusted for double track service.

Weekend/Holiday service has the same number of trains (nine) but the schedule have been adjusted to reflect improved running times. 

 

 

https://mysouthshoreline.com/south-shore-line-announces-implementation-of-new-double-track-train-schedule/

[Busjack]

35 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

Good evening, everyone. Here it is...the new South Shore schedule.

 

https://mysouthshoreline.com/south-shore-line-announces-implementation-of-new-double-track-train-schedule/

What's somewhat surprising is that a lot of trains start at 11th St. instead of Carroll Ave., and a bunch bypass Gary Metro Center, 57th St., and Museum Campus.

Schedule is effective Tues. May 14.

[renardo870]

52 minutes ago, Busjack said:

What's somewhat surprising is that a lot of trains start at 11th St. instead of Carroll Ave., and a bunch bypass Gary Metro Center, 57th St., and Museum Campus.

Schedule is effective Tues. May 14.

I'm sure there will be some tinkering of the schedule where some trains will return to stop at those bypassed stations after they review the ridership.

I'm am curious about the reasoning of the South Bend trains bypassing Carroll Ave (Shops) during the weekday schedule but stopping there on the weekends. 

Carroll Ave (Shops) to South Bend trips have increased from two to three and South Bend to Millennium Station trips have increased from five to six in both directions.

Edited April 19 by renardo870

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

I'm sure there will be some tinkering of the schedule where some trains will return to stop at those bypassed stations after they review the ridership.

 

I sort have the feeling that they do have (at least the existing) Gary Metro Center ridership information, with about only the BMX bus being a generator, and figure that the free Miller park and ride will be a better draw. An early plan was to consolidate the two stations in Aetna (north of the end of I-65), but decided not to do that.

[renardo870]

5 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I sort have the feeling that they do have (at least the existing) Gary Metro Center ridership information, with about only the BMX bus being a generator, and figure that the free Miller park and ride will be a better draw. An early plan was to consolidate the two stations in Aetna (north of the end of I-65), but decided not to do that.

I remember that was the plan but I guess the powers that be came to the conclusion that there was ample space to rebuild and expand at Miller...and the residents rose holy hell to the proposed closure. I'm surprised that they didn't rebuild Metro to high platform standard.

Edited April 19 by renardo870

[NewFlyerMCI]

Just now, renardo870 said:

I remember that was the plan but I guess the powers that be came to the conclusion that there was ample space to rebuild and expand at Miller. I'm surprised that they didn't rebuild Metro to high platform standard.

I was wondering if dwell times at Gary Metro was one of the possible reasons behind some trains skipping the stop

[Busjack]

20 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I was wondering if dwell times at Gary Metro was one of the possible reasons behind some trains skipping the stop

If you mean from the low platform maybe; if from crowds, maybe not. Maybe the trains with the 1200s are going to bypass. No way of really knowing.

24 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

.and the residents rose holy hell to the proposed closure.

Now that you mentioned that, it jogged my memory.

[busfan2847]

13 hours ago, renardo870 said:

I'm am curious about the reasoning of the South Bend trains bypassing Carroll Ave (Shops) during the weekday schedule but stopping there on the weekends.

I thought the original plan was for the Carroll Ave station to close once the project had finished and 11th St reopened?

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

I thought the original plan was for the Carroll Ave station to close once the project had finished and 11th St reopened?

I don't know or remember the "original plan," but the station page says "Free (lot fills quickly); Follow yellow signs to overflow lot (Allow extra 5 minutes to walk)."So, tey must be trying to move P&R riders away from there. NWI Times said there is supposed to be a parking garage built at 11th St.

[renardo870]

2 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

I thought the original plan was for the Carroll Ave station to close once the project had finished and 11th St reopened?

According to the NICTD 20-Year Strategic Business Plan, the Carroll Ave Station was proposed to be closed once the 11th Street Station was rebuilt. But ultimately, it remains open as is. Maybe later on it will be rebuilt or closed but since the rail yard is there for shop moves, the former is more likely. 

[renardo870]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, renardo870 said:

I believe all the stations from Gary Metro to Michigan City 11th and Carroll Ave will have high-level platforms.

Update: Gary Metro, Beverly Shores and Carroll Avenue are low level platform stations whereas Miller, Portage/Ogden Dunes*, Dune Park* and 11th Street are high level platform stations.

*From the videos that I've seen regarding the double track work, I believe the WB (inbound) platforms are high level and the EB (outbound) platforms are low level platforms for Portage and Dune Park, respectively. 

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

From the videos

The other strange thing I saw from the videos (I have not been out there), is that they operate the 300 series Highliners in 3-car consists instead of even numbers. Thus, even though I thought they ran 2 6-car trains, they might run 4 3-car trains. That may also explain how 26 cars rented from Metra  can fill in for 32 cars for the Monon Corridor, while also expanding service on the mainline.

[Tcmetro]

8 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Update: Gary Metro, Beverly Shores and Carroll Avenue are low level platform stations whereas Miller, Portage/Ogden Dunes*, Dune Park* and 11th Street are high level platform stations.

*From the videos that I've seen regarding the double track work, I believe the WB (inbound) platforms are high level and the EB (outbound) platforms are low level platforms for Portage and Dune Park, respectively. 

On my weekend trip, the high level platforms at Portage and Dune Park were used in both directions. The low level platforms might only be used at rush hour.

[artthouwill]

17 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

On my weekend trip, the high level platforms at Portage and Dune Park were used in both directions. The low level platforms might only be used at rush hour.

I haven't seen there. Is the low level platform on the south side of the EB track?  Is the high level platform between the EB and WB tracks?  Or are both platforms to the north if their respective tracks?

Update:  it appears that both platforms are side platforms  which seem to indicate that EB trains cross over to the WB track to stop at the high level platform.  Perhaps that will happen the majority of the time with the low level platform being used to avoid conflicts between EB and WB trains.

[NewFlyerMCI]

17 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

On my weekend trip, the high level platforms at Portage and Dune Park were used in both directions. The low level platforms might only be used at rush hour.

I want to say I heard or read this as well elsewhere, I'll try to see if I can find it.

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I haven't seen there. Is the low level platform on the south side of the EB track?  Is the high level platform between the EB and WB tracks?  Or are both platforms to the north if their respective tracks?

Dune Park

Portage/Ogden Dunes

The high-level platforms are to the south of the eastbound/outbound/southern track, and the low-level ones are to the north of the westbound/inbound/northern track.

Miller and 11th St are configured similar to Hammond (the current station at least)

[NewFlyerMCI]

I wonder what the reasoning was behind two south of the track side-platforms at Hammond, Miller and 11th vs just doing a single island platform like NJT's Union station, or even East Chicago, especially since gauntlet track was installed

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I want to say I heard or read this as well elsewhere, I'll try to see if I can find it.

Dune Park

Portage/Ogden Dunes

The high-level platforms are to the south of the eastbound/outbound/southern track, and the low-level ones are to the north of the westbound/inbound/northern track.

Miller and 11th St are configured similar to Hammond (the current station at least)

Ok thanks.   It would have seemed like the hugh level platforms at Portage and  Ogden Dunes should be north of the WB track for faster boarding abd dwell time fir inbound trains .  

[NewFlyerMCI]

For the question of how trains are stopping at the new high level platforms: https://chi.streetsblog.org/2024/04/10/south-shore-line-double-tracking-concludes-new-schedule-to-be-unveiled-in-may

Quote

South Shore Line executive director Michael Noland previously told Streetsblog that this “ground-level platform on one side, high-level platform on the other side” setup was created to accommodate the expected service pattern between Miller and Michigan City. The trains would stop at Track 1, and Track 2 platforms would serve as back-ups when Track 1 isn't available for reasons such as maintanace or freight train interference.

 

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

For the question of how trains are stopping at the new high level platforms: https://chi.streetsblog.org/2024/04/10/south-shore-line-double-tracking-concludes-new-schedule-to-be-unveiled-in-may

 

Forgive me for thinking the purpose of double tracking was that trains in each direction would have their own platforms.  I thought that's how they would accomplish faster travel times and more frequent service.