Pace ReVision Project

[MetroShadow]

The high-level concepts and survey are now available for review.

Moderator note: these are not the final designs - only illustrations of the redesigns based on the services (and funding) available.

[Busjack]

On 11/10/2024 at 9:49 AM, Busjack said:

....

Eric Llewellyn's presentation on theoretical possibilities for Harlem Ave. also left the following impressions:

...

 

On 11/15/2024 at 7:31 PM, MetroShadow said:

The high-level concepts and survey are now available for review.

Moderator note: these are not the final designs - only illustrations of the redesigns based on the services (and funding) available.

• Although Llewellyn did the Route 423 presentation to the Board, the pages were in the high-level presentation, so they probably were the consultants' work.
• Although not being a service plan, the pdf allowed me to magnify it, and one of the things I found interesting  was that Dundee Road was considered a Ridership corridor, "Route 260," from Palatine to Highland Park via Dundee Rd., Waukegan Rd., and Deerfield Rd., incorporating Route 471. Currently, parts of the route are covered by 234 and 604, which serve other purposes (604 being an I-90 feeder and 234 being primarily a N-S route to Mt. Prospect and Des Plaines) . But, thinking about it, Highland Park makes more sense to go to Highland Park than, say, straight Dundee Rd. to Glencoe.

Going back to the meeting, Dir. Marcucci from DuPage County also expressed skepticism, saying that these concepts ask for more money, but take away what little transit DuPage has (the trunk corridors are about the same). This time the response was that the Board may have to customize service for different communities, but considering that there was pushback from 3 of the 6 counties, I continue to think that Pace didn't get much "bang for its buck," especially when DAR and On Demand were essentially not considered.

[Busjack]

Presentation at the Feb meeting was mostly process: feedeback was basically  50-50 with regard to more frequency or more coverage, with a greater demand for On Demand in the collar counties. More next month.

[MetroShadow]

On 2/19/2025 at 1:27 PM, Busjack said:

Presentation at the Feb meeting was mostly process: feedeback was basically  50-50 with regard to more frequency or more coverage, with a greater demand for On Demand in the collar counties. More next month.

March meeting (and accompanying press release) gives feedback on the short-term "streamline" concept but a framework of growth (and somewhat favoring coverage).

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, MetroShadow said:

March meeting (and accompanying press release) gives feedback on the short-term "streamline" concept but a framework of growth (and somewhat favoring coverage).

I haven't found a video of the March Board meeting, but I'm sure this video of the Planning Committee is consistent with it. The lasting point is that the board members were asked, if you got extra funds, what proportion would go into ridership and what percentage would go into coverage, and the conclusion was 60/40 or 70/30 coverage over ridership, coverage being appropriate in the collar counties and far north and far south Cook County (far north defined as north of Golf Road, far south apparently defined as the Lansing On Demand..

Constatino indicated what he didn't like:

• Circular routes, especially unidirectional ones (picking on 541), saying that while it may provide coverage. people don't want to take the long way around.
• Routes with deviations only on some trips (although I bet most of those are school rips).
• On Demand, at least as reflected by comments hat it can only carry 5 or 6 passengers an hour, and thus isn't scalable. He got some pushback from Director Smith, who noted (1) the Round Lake one does get students to College of Lake County, and (2) if you improve coverage, Pace could spend less subsidizing Dial-a-Ride projects.

Director Canning apparently learned something from the North Shore Coordination fiasco: starting around here

• :"I had flashbacks to the Library in Northbrook where we had a very unhappy crowd. We had a route in Northbrook with very infrequent service and proposed cutting it." The rest of it was that the special needs students used the bus to learn how to get to the mall.{IMO, Pace made other mistakes that resulted in the backslash over the proposal to cut 422.]
• After Constentio's remark that the same amount of people would be with a 1/4 or 1/2 mile of a bus, "we had this situation in Evanston at the high school, where band members would have to carry their instruments" [which led to the 213-H trips].
•  

[Busjack]

17 hours ago, Busjack said:

I haven't found a video of the March Board meeting,

It's finally posted here.The presentation was a little more tailored to the feedback at the Planning Committee meeting that there is a sliding scale and something like 70/30 coverage/ridership was preferred. Also a good amount was mentioned about population growth in the collar counties and how it is difficult to assess interest if there is no current public transportation.

[Busjack]

Only real news from the Nov. 2025 board meeting were that there now is money to proceed with ReVision, but at the 10% level, and frequency or span improvements will be announced at the December meeting for 208, 215, 223, 290, 350, and 606.--

[Elkmn]

oh good. 208 should be quite a bit more frequent.

[Busjack]

18 hours ago, Elkmn said:

oh good. 208 should be quite a bit more frequent.

I guess every 20 minutes (approx. 30 now).

An aside: Two weird things Metzger said in the Board meeting video:

• The new fundng formula is based in part on unlinked trips, and not to have service plans that send too much money to CTA I interpreted this as cutting down on one-seat rides, and while it probably does not mean splitting 208 at Des Plaines, it probably means things like Jarrett Walker's "not a service plan" indicating an interline of Skokie Blvd. with Lake Ave.-Wilmette won't happen.
• She referred to 215 as "Evanston-Skokie," 290 as "Evanston-Paek Ridge" and 350 as "Calumet City-harvey." Apparently, she doesn't recognize that Howard CTA (bus terminal) is south of Howard, or that Morton-Willow is in Hammond, but there'sa certain territoriality in those remarks.

[MetroShadow]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

I guess every 20 minutes (approx. 30 now).

• She referred to 215 as "Evanston-Skokie," 290 as "Evanston-Paek Ridge" and 350 as "Calumet City-harvey." Apparently, she doesn't recognize that Howard CTA (bus terminal) is south of Howard, or that Morton-Willow is in Hammond, but there'sa certain territoriality in those remarks.

• The running time for the 208 is god-awful long, so I wouldn't be surprised if they broke it off at Des Plaines (I'll take the 20 minute frequency, on the other hand). So the question returns to "will we see the elimination of the one-seat ride" versus "are frequency improvements better along the entire segment?"
   
• Re: 215 - the City Line is at Howard, but I don't think the board cares about those semantics (this group, OTOH)...

(Apologies to nitpick)

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

• The running time for the 208 is god-awful long, so I wouldn't be surprised if they broke it off at Des Plaines (I'll take the 20 minute frequency, on the other hand). So the question returns to "will we see the elimination of the one-seat ride" versus "are frequency improvements better along the entire segment?"
   
• Re: 215 - the City Line is at Howard, but I don't think the board cares about those semantics (this group, OTOH)...

(Apologies to nitpick)

I was specukating (as indicated by my verbiage), so no apology is necessary.

My 208 split view was based on that Pace had some purpose, not fully articulated, when it combined the west end of 208 with 209 at Des Plaines. Although 208 was originally only to Old Orchard, midday (garage) trips went to Des Plaines. Pace has had about 20 years to determine if it worked. But we probably agree that splitting the route makes sense for the unlinked trips reason, shorter blocks for electric buses, schedule reliability, and cutting the deadhead, especially to and from Evanston. I also questioned other long routes, such as 364.

On the route descriptions, I just thought they were peculiar.

[artthouwill]

On 11/13/2025 at 4:34 PM, Busjack said:

I was specukating (as indicated by my verbiage), so no apology is necessary.

My 208 split view was based on that Pace had some purpose, not fully articulated, when it combined the west end of 208 with 209 at Des Plaines. Although 208 was originally only to Old Orchard, midday (garage) trips went to Des Plaines. Pace has had about 20 years to determine if it worked. But we probably agree that splitting the route makes sense for the unlinked trips reason, shorter blocks for electric buses, schedule reliability, and cutting the deadhead, especially to and from Evanston. I also questioned other long routes, such as 364.

On the route descriptions, I just thought they were peculiar.

I also think that the 208 should be split, with the 209 handling the portion between the Des Plaines Metra and the NWTC ( as it once did).  The only question is the frequency to Cumberland Blue Line station,  or whether it should take River Rd straight to Rosemont Blue Line station.  

One of the things I don't like about the 208 is the service to Oakton Community College    it seems like it adds 10 minutes to the route when you factor in waiting for traffic on Golf Rd and the left turn from Golf to River. Shortening the route and possibly only having select trips serve the College may help with the running time 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I also think that the 208 should be split, with the 209 handling the portion between the Des Plaines Metra and the NWTC ( as it once did).  The only question is the frequency to Cumberland Blue Line station,  or whether it should take River Rd straight to Rosemont Blue Line station.  

One of the things I don't like about the 208 is the service to Oakton Community College    it seems like it adds 10 minutes to the route when you factor in waiting for traffic on Golf Rd and the left turn from Golf to River. Shortening the route and possibly only having select trips serve the College may help with the running time 

• I don't see much point to thr Busse Rd. connection. 
• Oakton College is a huge passenger generator, but the buildings are too far from Golf Rd. and Golf Rd. there is too inhospitable to be a bus stop. Even before the restructuring that separated 208 from 212, and 208 was essentially Church St.-Golf to Golf Mill, meaning that the Des Plaines trrips were essentially garage trips, they still pulled into OCC.

My idea only involved making the exising 208 into two routes each terminating in Des Plaines, but at the time of that restructuring, all that the consultant said was "Implement the Golf Corridor Plan." I assume they had their reasons.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

• I don't see much point to thr Busse Rd. connection. 
• Oakton College is a huge passenger generator, but the buildings are too far from Golf Rd. and Golf Rd. there is too inhospitable to be a bus stop. Even before the restructuring that separated 208 from 212, and 208 was essentially Church St.-Golf to Golf Mill, meaning that the Des Plaines trrips were essentially garage trips, they still pulled into OCC.

My idea only involved making the exising 208 into two routes each terminating in Des Plaines, but at the time of that restructuring, all that the consultant said was "Implement the Golf Corridor Plan." I assume they had their reasons.

I wasn't concerned at all about Busse Rd considering that both the revised 208 and 209 lost their Busse Rd routings.  

As for OCC, I guess I never get the trips with the crowds but maybe one or two students at most.  

 

 

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I wasn't concerned at all about Busse Rd considering that both the revised 208 and 209 lost their Busse Rd routings.  

As for OCC, I guess I never get the trips with the crowds but maybe one or two students at most.  

aines

 

209 is only Busse Rd. between Park Ridge and Des Plaines. Yoa u still haven't explained why the old 209 should be reinstated.

Since OC includes Evanston, Niles Twp. and Maine Twp., unless everyone is on remote learning, the direct stop seems necessary. I could argue that the diversion into downtown Des Plaines is more of a delay. and a proposal for 226 is for it not to go downtown, but the transfer point seems important. I'm surprised you aren't arguing that it shouldn't go into Golf Mill or Woodfield Mall property.

 

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, Busjack said:

209 is only Busse Rd. between Park Ridge and Des Plaines. Yoa u still haven't explained why the old 209 should be reinstated.

Since OC includes Evanston, Niles Twp. and Maine Twp., unless everyone is on remote learning, the direct stop seems necessary. I could argue that the diversion into downtown Des Plaines is more of a delay. and a proposal for 226 is for it not to go downtown, but the transfer point seems important. I'm surprised you aren't arguing that it shouldn't go into Golf Mill or Woodfield Mall property.

 

I'm not arguing for a reinstatement of the old 209 per se as the original portion east of Park Ridge obviously isn't necessary.    With other routes like this 240, 241, and 290, one could argue that the 209 as a stand alone route between Cumberland Blue Line and Des Plaines Metra isn't necessary.   At least connecting it with the western split of the 208 might give it a purpose.   

As for Woodfield and Golf Mill  Malls,  they are at least major transfer points, even if rhe malls themselves aren't great traffic generators.  I would have been in favor of the 208 not serving Des Plaines Metra, but it seems like it is an important transfer point between Pace buses moreso tban a connection to Metra trains.  However the redundancy of routes serving BWTC and Woodfield Mall is duly noted.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

At least connecting it with the western split of the 208 might give it a purpose.

Most 209 trips are interlined with 234 ( @Adam Kerman took credit for suggesting that), so iys not torally isolated. See H note on schedule. Whether any of this survives ReVision is anyone's guess.

Also, if one takes @Sam92's theory of matching frequency, and since you are disclaiming a need for more service on Busse, once an hour midday on 209 doesn't match the current 30 minutes on 208, not to mention that frequency is supposed to be increased.