Pace ReVision Project

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

 

pace is doing a similar concept to CTA with their own vision project that they are doing. The link to participate is here https://www.pacebus.com/revision . they started this project in March but they are now posting it all across.

[Railguy]

Pace board approved contract Aug 2023 and according to timeline on Pace website work is progressing going into public comment period

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, Railguy said:

Pace board approved contract Aug 2023 and according to timeline on Pace website work is progressing going into public comment period

Yeah, that was mentioned under Network Revitalization.

[Busjack]

Pace ommittees are to view a consultant's report on ReVision on Aug. 15 (agenda) so something will show up on YouTube and we'll get some idea of the consultant's thinking FWIW.

[MetroShadow]

Some screenshots from today's meeting. The draft plan won't be out until the end of the year; with concepts being flushed out in 2025. It does not specifically call out on-demand, or route designs (you could infer one). 

Something to note: there are three levels of funding mechanisms by the RTA:

• baseline/+10, (Assumes the 2019 pre-COVID level)
• +50/ridership (Takes on a 50% 
• +50/Coverage

The +50/ridership makes the high-ridership routes at least with 15-minute frequencies; the +50/Coverage goes out above and beyond the satellite cities, re-establishes geographical connections that go back years. In the three scenarios, there is an emphasis on Sunday service. 

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, MetroShadow said:

Some screenshots from today's meeting. The draft plan won't be out until the end of the year; with concepts being flushed out in 2025. Does not specifically call out on-demand, or 

Something to note: there are three levels of funding mechanisms by the RTA:

• baseline/+10, (Assumes the 2019 pre-COVID level)
• +50/ridership (Takes on a 50% 
• +50/Coverage

The +50/ridership makes the high-ridership routes at least with 15-minute frequencies; the +50/Coverage goes out above and beyond the satellite cities, re-establishes geographical connections that go back years.

That's about the takeaways I got from it. I focused a little more on the mid-North Shore division (Glenview, Northbrook, Highland Park), where the +50 ridership concept would cut even more service than the 2nd stage of the North Shore Coordination Plan, while the +50  Coverage concept adds service (looks like on both Waukegan and Shermer Rds), but only once an hour.

The Directors' questions pointed up a lot of holes in the analysis:

• Director Smith from McHenry County asked about Dial-A-Ride, which they said was to be held harmless, and if one county preferred coverage while the regional consensus was for ridership, could that be reconciled?  Director Soto had similar comments about west and central Lake County compared to eastern.. There was some talk about On Demand to fill in the gaps in the ridership model, but nothing concrete.
  • Your comment about "reestablishes geographical connections that go back years" reminds me of when the RTA was first established, there were pumpkin buses in McHenry County that ran empty, so it now basically is on a DAR model, with the 800 series routes being run with paratransit buses.
• The question of electrification was also out of scope, but couldn't be dismissed given the lower range of the buses and the resources needed for infrastructure.
• Job locations may be proxies for where people want to go (to see the doctor, go shopping) and while remote work was mentioned, I didn't see anything on places where offices or shopping districts are being demolished or converted.
• Even if a hospital is a jobs magnet, workers may come from all over. Third shift workers were not really considered, except that UPS and Amazon will continue subsidizing the bus.

Although there was the +10% concept, I think this started off on the too-rosy scenario of "we should have as much per capita as CT or NJ."

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, Busjack said:

I focused a little more on the mid-North Shore division (Glenview, Northbrook, Highland Park), where the +50 ridership concept would cut even more service than the 2nd stage of the North Shore Coordination Plan

See the brown circle in the map clipped from @MetroShadow's post, where there is essentially nothing between Green Bay Road and Milwaukee Ave. from Golf Rd. (except Wilmette to Old Orchard) and Lake-Cook.

[Tcmetro]

This is what I inferred from the "Plus 10" scenario.

Seems like there's a few things going on here; 1 - a complete revision of the North Shore plan; 2 - some new regional connections (Oakton to Schaumburg; Austin to Midway; Waukegan to Libertyville; Touhy to Rosemont; etc.) 3 - satellite network consolidation; 4 - I-90 service simplification.

• 215: Looks to be kept in place instead of going to Jefferson Park and replacing the 54A.
• 225: Looks to be a 30 min route from Jefferson Park to Linden CTA via Central, Niles Center, Skokie Bl, Lake, Green Bay, Central replacing part of the 422.
• 226: Looks to be a 60 min route from Howard CTA via Howard, Skokie Bl, Oakton, Arlington Hts Rd, Biesterfield, Martingale to NWTC.
• 290: Extended along Touhy and River Rd to end at Rosemont CTA.
• 315: Extended along 35th, Central, 47th, Cicero to Midway CTA.
• 383: Looks to be improved to 30 mins and extended to Harvey TC via a combination of the 354, 356, and 359 (although maybe it's a new route altogether).
• 422: Northbrook to Old Orchard.
• 423: This looks like it could be 30 min service on Harlem, branching hourly to Glenbrook Hospital and hourly to Willow Rd/Linden CTA.
• 501: Looks to be rerouted in Shorewood.
• 524: Looks like it is modified to be a West/South Aurora to Fox Valley line.
• Elgin: consolidate some of the local service into the regional services on 550, 552, 603, 801. Also looks like a new route from Barrington/I-90 to Elgin via Irving Pk Rd.
• 568: Looks like it is straightened and extended to Libertyville.
• I-90 Express: Looks like it might be one route every 15 mins connecting Rosemont, NWTC, I-90/Barrington, I-90/Rt 25, Elgin TC.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

Seems like there's a few things going on here; 1 - a complete revision of the North Shore plan; 2 - some new regional connections (Oakton to Schaumburg; Austin to Midway; Waukegan to Libertyville; Touhy to Rosemont; etc.) 3 - satellite network consolidation; 4 - I-90 service simplification.

I think you are reading too much into it. The consultant was only proposing concepts' not a service plan in which routes are being drawn. The next stage is in November, when something goes out for comment. The only thing I take from it is that there are now so many 15 minute routes vs hourly routes, what the demographic are, etc. As the board noted, it didn't take DAR into account, and didn't take different characteristic into account. I noted that they mentioned On Demand, but did not say where to put it. They also mentioned job sites. but not those that are no longer there. Maybe any additions to the +10 concept are because Pace got out of the feeder business. And, as far as I can tell, the maps left out I-55, maybe because it isn't 7-days a week, but Pace just had to beef it up because it is overcrowded. Nothing was said about municipal services in Niles and Highland Park.

I mentioned North Shore only to contrast the two +50 concepts:  the ridership one with even less service than iin the aborted Niorth Shore Plan, and the coverage one with more, but once an hour.

Which gets me to:

• I think the consultant was crapping us by saying that trips should be completed within 45 minutes, including waiting for the bus and then suggesting a coverage concept with hourly trips.
• No matter what the concept, his admission that the Madison WI plan had to implement BRT for the university and state capital means that these consultants are more interested in theory than implementation.
• If you think the maps portray actual routes, once it goes out for pubic comment, the politicians in area where the routes will be cut will torpedo it  just as they did Phase 2 of the North Shore Plan. 178 e-mails with the subject line "Route 422" do have an effect.
• Nothing is going to change on the top 10 routes.
• IDK why the consultants were so obsessed about Sunday.

I mentioned at the beginning "why do this when Pace has a planning  department," and while @MetroShadow posted a response, I think Pace is wasting its money.

[artthouwill]

The I -90 Express being one route makes a ton of sense to me.  It essentially combines the 600, 603, and 605 rather than running 3 separate routes relatively empty.  I don't know if 15 minute frequencies are too frequent  but I like the idea.

Austin to Midway is interesting,  though I prefer the 330 .  Austin to Midway eliminates the interline with Ridgeland.   It does provide the West side a one seat ride to Midway rather than taking 2 different Cicero buses.

I recognize that these are ideas and not actual proposals put forth by Pace or the consultants .  Time will tell what direction Pace actually goes with their concepts 

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The I -90 Express being one route makes a ton of sense to me. As

As I indicated while you were posting, nobody other than @Tcmetro has proposed that. All that's on the map is a corridor.

[artthouwill]

3 minutes ago, Busjack said:

As I indicated while you were posting, nobody other than @Tcmetro has proposed that. All that's on the map is a corridor.

And I also indicated in my post that I recognized that those were ideas and they didn't come from Pace nor the consultants.

[Tcmetro]

Yes that's true that I may have looked too far into it, but if the consultants put this much work into routing concepts, the ideas are likely to end up in the draft proposals.

[MetroShadow]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:51 AM, Busjack said:

I think you are reading too much into it. The consultant was only proposing concepts' not a service plan in which routes are being drawn. The next stage is in November, when something goes out for comment. The only thing I take from it is that there are now so many 15 minute routes vs hourly routes, what the demographic are, etc. As the board noted, it didn't take DAR into account, and didn't take different characteristic into account. I noted that they mentioned On Demand, but did not say where to put it. They also mentioned job sites. but not those that are no longer there. Maybe any additions to the +10 concept are because Pace got out of the feeder business. And, as far as I can tell, the maps left out I-55, maybe because it isn't 7-days a week, but Pace just had to beef it up because it is overcrowded. Nothing was said about municipal services in Niles and Highland Park.

• IDK why the consultants were so obsessed about Sunday.

I mentioned at the beginning "why do this when Pace has a planning  department," and while @MetroShadow posted a response, I think Pace is wasting its money.

Remember: the satellites (except for North) don't have Sunday service; but also in terms of building ridership and access, especially to places that cannot be accessed on transit (church, shopping, etc) in making newer markets that way. This approach would also apply since said Planning Department (which I can't fault @Busjack for commenting wasting money), they can't do a full-scale refresh when you have to keep the services they have running and dealing with the operations.

[RTD8481]

Route 422 has been permanently eliminated from entering Edens Plaza. They now turn Skokie Rd and Lake ave. EB and WB . 

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, RTD8481 said:

Route 422 has been permanently eliminated from entering Edens Plaza. They now turn Skokie Rd and Lake ave. EB and WB . 

This has nothing to do with revision and is not permanent, but a detour until further notice (alert). "Buses will detour until further notice."

[MetroShadow]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:54 PM, RTD8481 said:

Route 422 has been permanently eliminated from entering Edens Plaza. They now turn Skokie Rd and Lake ave. EB and WB . 

Even if that is the case, it doesn't preclude the service plan proposals, which are on track for EOY or Early 2025.

[Busjack]

23 minutes ago, MetroShadow said:

Even if that is the case, it doesn't preclude the service plan proposals, which are on track for EOY or Early 2025.

It's simply someone who had to walk 500  feet to Wayfair leaping to the wrong conclusion. He probably also thinks the bus not running on Old Orchard Road between `Woods Drive and Skokie Blvd. is part of some board action, as opposed to Old Orchard Road being impassible. The Board didn't take any action on Edens Plaza, either.

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:30 PM, MetroShadow said:

Remember: the satellites (except for North) don't have Sunday service; but also in terms of building ridership and access, especially to places that cannot be accessed on transit (church, shopping, etc) in making newer markets that way. This approach would also apply since said Planning Department (which I can't fault @Busjack for commenting wasting money), they can't do a full-scale refresh when you have to keep the services they have running and dealing with the operations.

Doesn't help that the panning department seems to be perpetually understaffed as well lol

[Busjack]

On 8/15/2024 at 1:05 PM, MetroShadow said:

Some screenshots from today's meeting. .... 

 

 

 

 

Here's some scuttlebutt for speculation. The Ridership proposal quoted above indicates a corridor on Dundee Road to Waukegan Road to Deerfield Road to Highland Park. I suppose that has some merit, to give Wheeling E-W service. However, the Pace Budget report for July 2024 indicates that Pace is losing its can on Highland Park, compared to budget on the expenses side:

That variance is larger than the respective variances at N, W, and R.

This would indicate to me that it's no longer worth it for Pace to subsidize Highland Park's expensive work force. On the other hand, if someone is serious about a Dundee Road bus, it makes sense to route it that way than via Dundee or Lake Cook Road.