Service beyond SP2025 (was: March 25 System Pick)

[Sam92]

56 minutes ago, Busjack said:

But can it make it at Peterson-Ravenswood?

Back to this point... Apparently the shuttle is straight campus to campus and it's people going from north side into Evanston for other things that might be making them consider the 201 extension. If it's Rogers Park like this guy says then going via Pratt then ridge kinda still covers ridge where the gap is widest, doesn't really compete with 96 and 155 cause that's just a place for them to turn around and simplifies the ride for 147/201 transfers which apparently is a preference given the growing contempt for Howard transfers 

[Sam92]

23 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Well one thing is for sure and two things are for certain, I do not approve of 77th getting the #39 back from Kedzie. 😂😂😂😂

 

No more 39 west of orange line possibly? 39's been said to be stronger on the east end and it gets close to 35 west of the orange line. That's the only reason I can see them moving to 77th cause the relief from K is quicker and K would probably have tried to move something heavier out of it was a space issue

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

But can it make it at Peterson-Ravenswood?

absolutely not. that underpass is terrible to make turns with a wide vehicle.

[Sam92]

23 hours ago, Busjack said:

1.  
2. I don't know what "extend 1 to South Lakefront" means. Certainly not the old routing through Michael Reese (which isn't there now).

 

On 6/13/2025 at 9:30 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Well one thing is for sure and two things are for certain, I do not approve of 77th getting the #39 back from Kedzie. 😂😂😂😂

I think I got an idea....

I said a few minutes ago that the move of 39 means it might be cutting back.... 

It's been said here 39 is strongest east of the red line.

I agree that the #1 isn't being sent south via Drexel but since 15 isn't being changed in response to #1 either CTA agrees with some of us that #15 can use some help (in which restoring the routing via Indiana and Hyde Park can help) OR skipping over 74th might mean they might cut Pershing west of the green line and extend the #1 via Pershing, cottage, 47th and Lake Park to preserve the heavier part of pershing. If we wanna take this a step further maybe serving Yates involves extending the #1 back to 83rd. I don't think 5B/6B works cause the only part of Yates that I see generating riders is the stretch between 83rd and 75th. If you send the #1 all the way back you can divert 71 via 83rd to Yates to cover that stretch. Alternatively they could leave 71 alone and have the #1 continue straight down Yates this time then cut over to 83rd and the lakefront.

 

[Sam92]

13 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

. 

For the 143 - I would instead eliminate the 134, as the 156 takes the same amount of time to get to LaSalle St and the 143 would still service Michigan & Lake (Illinois Center). There's a lot of overlap on these routes though, so I'd imagine the 143 recommendation comes from a more detailed review of the travel patterns. 

 

5 hours ago, Javi75 said:

The 134 is the only bus route that goes from Sheridan & Stockton to Wacker Drive, a huge chunk of the 134/135/136 ridership is on Wacker Drive. 

I think Wacker drive isnt doing as much due to COVID. Since they mention consolidation maybe idea is 151 handles 143's job up to wacker since AM rush isn't as intense. 134 still runs express to Wacker but runs to Michigan and congress instead

[TaylorTank1229]

53/N53/53A restructure & 93 Sunday service takes effect on Sunday, August 17th.

https://www.transitchicago.com/cta-to-extend-routing-of-three-bus-lines-to-better-serve-west-side-communities/

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

I honestly retained N95 to 67th cause I figured someone on Commercial/South shore would whine about my first thought to terminate N95 and N15 at Trinity. This was piggybacking on my N87 idea. if all the main routes go to their ends at the lakefront you can just stay on  the red line till whatever stop and take the bus straight east from there instead of the N5 going around to cover the east side. By realigning the N5 to continue south on Jeffery and terminate at Trinity the gap in owl service east of Cottage isn't as wide. 

 

   But you ignored the point that there's no demand on Jeffery between 1 am and 4 am. CTA's plan as we infer it involves drawing some lines on a map, but that's all you are doing.

[Sam92]

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

   But you ignored the point that there's no demand on Jeffery between 1 am and 4 am. CTA's plan as we infer it involves drawing some lines on a map, but that's all you are doing.

Well how about this? N87 extended, N95 to Buffalo, N67 to 67th/South Shore. 

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Back to this point... Apparently the shuttle is straight campus to campus and it's people going from north side into Evanston for other things that might be making them consider the 201 extension. If it's Rogers Park like this guy says then going via Pratt then ridge kinda still covers ridge where the gap is widest, doesn't really compete with 96 and 155 cause that's just a place for them to turn around and simplifies the ride for 147/201 transfers which apparently is a preference given the growing contempt for Howard transfers 

I don't know what the chat proves (I'll acknowledge tthat there are some commuters from Rogers Park to  the Ridge Ave. area of Evanston, but they live around Albion Ave., which is south of Pratt, and hence would not be served by your olan). More to the point:  Why would CTA say to Bryn Mawr, if it could turn around at Morse, as 96 and 155 do? Obviously you don't live in the area, and while @strictures does. his comments about the Metra station indicated that he thinks only dead people live around it, and he has taken inconsistent positions that 22 buses don't operate well between Bryn Mawr and Arthur, so why not add 50? Neither makes any sense.

[Busjack]

11 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Well how about this? N87 extended, N95 to Buffalo, N67 to 67th/South Shore. 

Again just drawing lines on a map unless you demonstrate a nightime traffic generator, such as a steel mill (wait, they're gone), hospital, UPS, or the like. Some 24-hour operation. It's one thing for Jarrett Walker to try to generate ridership during the day; there has to be another  reason after midnight.

To illustrate a couple of OWL failures: N201 was supposed to cover for removing Owl Purple Line service, but while it served Evanston Hospital, apparently the shifts became more regular, and it is gone. So is the Pace rideshare in Harvey.

[strictures]

13 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I don't know what the chat proves (I'll acknowledge that there are some commuters from Rogers Park to  the Ridge Ave. area of Evanston, but they live around Albion Ave., which is south of Pratt, and hence would not be served by your olan). More to the point:  Why would CTA say to Bryn Mawr, if it could turn around at Morse, as 96 and 155 do? Obviously you don't live in the area, and while @strictures does. his comments about the Metra station indicated that he thinks only dead people live around it, and he has taken inconsistent positions that 22 buses don't operate well between Bryn Mawr and Arthur, so why not add 50? Neither makes any sense.

Not just dead people around the Peterson/Ridge station, but a ton of seniors & Section 8 people live around there & they don't use Metra either. When I'm on Metra & it stops there, very few get on or off, rarely more than ten, while Rogers Park has usually 25 or more except in a few non-rush times. But my main objection that station was, you don't build new until you've rebuilt all the old dumps of stations, which both rogers Park & Clybourn are. And I know there are plans, that may never happen to move Clybourn closer to the Lincoln Yards project, but that seems to have run into a financial dead end at the moment. Plus rebuilding Clybourn, at its current location isn't going to happen without the total reconstruction of the bridges over Ashland Ave. & eliminating the bizarre jog in Ashland under them.  That is years or decades away. As for the 22, it's service north of Foster that's a disaster, last week I sat at home watching Bustracker on my computer for 40 minutes until I saw a SB 22 leaving Howard. One huge problem are the appallingly stupid bike lanes between Peterson/Elmdale & Devon that have reduced the street to just one traffic lane in each direction, causing quarter-mile backups north of Devon for SB buses.

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

absolutely not. that underpass is terrible to make turns with a wide vehicle.

Would it hit the abutment? Otherwise consider these other problems on Ridge in Evanston:

At some point CTA ran Optimas--99 inch buses. Now it is running 108" wide buses that slop over the white lane marking. The bus is stuck behind whoever is in the left lane, and vice versa. But CTA still operates there. CTA also operates 206 even though there are no left turns onto Dempster, so it sends the NB buses on Lake.

Cars EB on Dempster have to back off for Pace 250/Pulse to make the right turn from Ridge to Dempster, but they do it.

Ask your buddies at NP how they cope.

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, strictures said:

As for the 22, it's service north of Foster that's a disaster, last week I sat at home watching Bustracker on my computer for 40 minutes until I saw a SB 22 leaving Howard. One huge problem are the appallingly stupid bike lanes between Peterson/Elmdale & Devon that have reduced the street to just one traffic lane in each direction, causing quarter-mile backups north of Devon for SB buses

This ain't the Metra thread, I only brought it up for the "nobody is there" claim. But the part I quoted shows the inconsistency of your "put 50 on Clark from Bryn Mawr to Devon" point. if that stretch can't even handle 22.

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Again just drawing lines on a map unless you demonstrate a nightime traffic generator, such as a steel mill (wait, they're gone), hospital, UPS, or the like. Some 24-hour operation. It's one thing for Jarrett Walker to try to generate ridership during the day; there has to be another  reason after midnight.

To illustrate a couple of OWL failures: N201 was supposed to cover for removing Owl Purple Line service, but while it served Evanston Hospital, apparently the shifts became more regular, and it is gone. So is the Pace rideshare in Harvey.

Well, taking elimation, extension and consolidation into thought. The more realistic thought is N9 to Sheridan Red or Lawrence and eliminate N22 imo.  Extending N87 I can see cause a lot of people ask for it, if that happens I see no reason for the South Shore Part of N5 to exist leaving N67 and N95 (which does have demand). Jeffery was more of a "in case someone whines about the gap in North-South service" situation since that would leave on N4. Now when I pulled up the map, applying my logic with the N22, N20 looked kinda close to the blue line but no one's too fond of that branch of the blue line at the moment. Honorable mention.... Eliminate N87 red line to western? 🤔

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

Not just dead people around the Peterson/Ridge station, but a ton of seniors & Section 8 people live around there & they don't use Metra either. When I'm on Metra & it stops there, very few get on or off, rarely more than ten, while Rogers Park has usually 25 or more except in a few non-rush times. But my main objection that station was, you don't build new until you've rebuilt all the old dumps of stations, which both rogers Park & Clybourn are. And I know there are plans, that may never happen to move Clybourn closer to the Lincoln Yards project, but that seems to have run into a financial dead end at the moment. Plus rebuilding Clybourn, at its current location isn't going to happen without the total reconstruction of the bridges over Ashland Ave. & eliminating the bizarre jog in Ashland under them.  That is years or decades away. As for the 22, it's service north of Foster that's a disaster, last week I sat at home watching Bustracker on my computer for 40 minutes until I saw a SB 22 leaving Howard. One huge problem are the appallingly stupid bike lanes between Peterson/Elmdale & Devon that have reduced the street to just one traffic lane in each direction, causing quarter-mile backups north of Devon for SB buses.

That's why I personally feel it's best to just abandon Clark and reroute to Ashland. And maybe as a bonus if we let the bikers have Clark they'll be satisfied and  stop demanding bike lanes in other places 🤗🤣🤣🤣 we've already set a trend of slowly getting off slow diagonal streets anyway

[Busjack]

40 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

That's why I personally feel it's best to just abandon Clark and reroute to Ashland. And maybe as a bonus if we let the bikers have Clark they'll be satisfied and  stop demanding bike lanes in other places 🤗🤣🤣🤣 we've already set a trend of slowly getting off slow diagonal streets anyway

That doesn't address @strictures's concern, because on that stretch, Ashland is on Clark.  It used to be wide enough to handle both, but apparently no more. Maybe your suggestion would work from Bryn Mawr to Irving Park, but @strictures wasn't complaining about that.

On your prior post, I don't know what your Polish map is supposed to denote, other than that the connection of N9 at North and Clybourn indicates that the Red Line takes over for riders heading further north, just as the X9 ending at Sheridan station does.

[Sam92]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

That doesn't address @strictures's concern, because on that stretch, Ashland is on Clark.  It used to be wide enough to handle both, but apparently no more. Maybe your suggestion would work from Bryn Mawr to Irving Park, but @strictures wasn't complaining about that.

On your prior post, I don't know what your Polish map is supposed to denote, other than that the connection of N9 at North and Clybourn indicates that the Red Line takes over for riders heading further north, just as the X9 ending at Sheridan station does.

Well by rerouting to Ashland north of Irving you at least get on to a faster street to travel to that stretch. You already have half the sb buses deadheading back from Howard, the remaining buses that return south in service get slammed on both the stretch strictures mentioned. By going up Ashland you have 16 blocks to try and make up time 

[Sam92]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

 

On your prior post, I don't know what your Polish map is supposed to denote, other than that the connection of N9 at North and Clybourn indicates that the Red Line takes over for riders heading further north, just as the X9 ending at Sheridan station does.

That's the night owl map. I was saying that to point out that N22 could get cut for the same reasons as N151 if you were to extend the N9 to Irving Park. Basically showing my work

[Sam92]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't know what the chat proves (I'll acknowledge tthat there are some commuters from Rogers Park to  the Ridge Ave. area of Evanston, but they live around Albion Ave., which is south of Pratt, and hence would not be served by your olan). More to the point:  Why would CTA say to Bryn Mawr, if it could turn around at Morse, as 96 and 155 do? Obviously you don't live in the area, and while @strictures does. his comments about the Metra station indicated that he thinks only dead people live around it, and he has taken inconsistent positions that 22 buses don't operate well between Bryn Mawr and Arthur, so why not add 50? Neither makes any sense.

I stayed in the apartment above the 7-Eleven up there. Albion is walking distance from Pratt so that still helps them while serving the most isolated part of ridge. Also some of these complaints are from Edgewater as well not just Rogers park 

[Busjack]

12 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

By going up Ashland you have 16 blocks to try and make up time 

Does absolutely nothing to relieve the wait  if you are waiting at Granville and the next bus is in 45 minutes. 

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I stayed in the apartment above the 7-Eleven up there. Albion is walking distance from Pratt so that still helps them while serving the most isolated part of ridge. Also some of these complaints are from Edgewater as well not just Rogers park 

Which finally provides the explanation why you want more service on Sheridan, and not on Ridge.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Which finally provides the explanation why you want more service on Sheridan, and not on Ridge.

If I wanted service on Sheridan I'd suggest still serving Howard. I said multiple times this is to serve ridge in some way hence me saying continue on ridge and bypass Howard station. So I'm saying I AGREE WITH YOU that they want some service on ridge but I'm also point out multiple people in ROGERS PARK and apparently EDGEWATER which is closer to the alignment. Maybe someone from Edgewater wants to get to ridge. You acknowledged yourself that people from Rogers park want to get to somewhere along ridge in Evanston. Routing along Pratt allows majority of people an easier way to accomplish that while still serving ridge since everyone between touhy and Devon can walk to Pratt. Since Rogers park ends at Devon and is mostly east of Ravenswood your proposal while direct to Bryn mawr ignores half the people who want this. Another thing. Considering #96 is possibly getting sent to Pratt you CAN serve the section of ridge by rerouting #96 to end at Bryn mawr is well. CTA may be slowly trying to consolidate everything into an even spaced service in that area.... Pratt West of ridge might be weekday only type ridership, 201 would cover Pratt east of there which is a bit stronger and has people trying to get to Evanston. There's gotta be something more to that than just avoiding #290

[Sam92]

24 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Does absolutely nothing to relieve the wait  if you are waiting at Granville and the next bus is in 45 minutes. 

It's the only way I can think of to keep the route intact. My other thought is to say give up on Clark for any fast long distance travel and split it into a North Clark route and the other half works in tandem with 36 on the southern end 🤷 cta spent like 10 years trying every thing from adding artics, schedule changes etc so it looks like something buggers gonna have to happen especially if there's a 2 year study

[Sam92]

While we're on this area.... With 93 getting 7 day service and #11 on it's last legs it might be on its way out soon. The #96 alignment covers some of the Kedzie part. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

your proposal while direct to Bryn mawr

It's not my proposal. It was on the CTA pick list. CTA said go to Bryn Mawr. Exactly how, it didn't say. I said that based on where I used to live, this would make sense, if the bus can make the turn.

On the other hand, you have been engaged in pure fantasy. You had various routes moving to K when the pick list only had minor changes like 39 to 77th, and then made wild assumptions from that. As a driver pointed out, the Owl statement included "consolidate, eliminate," not put Owl service on residential streets like Jeffrey and N. Ashland (Clark has late-night establishments; Ashland in Edgewater does not), and now you are assuming 11 Lincoln is being canceled with no substantiation. The only thing you seem to have a hit was canceling 54B.

As @MetroShadow quoted me, it's time for "informed speculation," but this has reached the "passing the pipe" stage. As such, your s.w.a.g. is no longer entertaining.