BusExpert32 Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I was just wondering on what basis does Chicago run their 5300 Flxibles in with their Novas and New Flyers. During midday and weekends it's hard to spot one but during rush hour they're crawling all over the place. Is this suppose to happen? Or does Chicago garage just randomly assign buses during rush hours, midday, and weekends. The only route you can spot a Flxible easily every day of the week and at every time of the day is the 66 Chicago. Is this suppose to be weird or a normal garage routine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Well, I think that happens in terms of a "racist" thing and also based on location. Due to the fact #66 Chicago runs so close to the garage, I think they like using them on that route most often (they use them very often on #53 Pulaski as well I notice). I also think this is a racist thing because #66 Chicago goes through lots of "ghetto" areas including the most southern part of Cabrini-Green. Notice they also use the Fixibles on #70 Division alot? Well, I think they use them on #70 Division alot because that goes through Austin and Humbolt Park, as well as through Cabrini-Green. After 8pm, I notice alot, #76 Diversey has alot of Fixibles on the route is because #76 Diversey has to come through Logan Square and Avondale (the neighborhood where I live) because there is lots of violence on the streets (trust me, there is), then there is the Lathrop Homes near Damen. That's all I have to say for now, I will say more later if nesscary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Well, I think that happens in terms of a "racist" thing and also based on location. Due to the fact #66 Chicago runs so close to the garage, I think they like using them on that route most often (they use them very often on #53 Pulaski as well I notice). I also think this is a racist thing because #66 Chicago goes through lots of "ghetto" areas including the most southern part of Cabrini-Green. Notice they also use the Fixibles on #70 Division alot? Well, I think they use them on #70 Division alot because that goes through Austin and Humbolt Park, as well as through Cabrini-Green. After 8pm, I notice alot, #76 Diversey has alot of Fixibles on the route is because #76 Diversey has to come through Logan Square and Avondale (the neighborhood where I live) because there is lots of violence on the streets (trust me, there is), then there is the Lathrop Homes near Damen. That's all I have to say for now, I will say more later if nesscary... I have noticed a lot of Flxibles on 70 Division and I have also noticed that there is zero Flxibles running on 76 Diversey during the day, until after 8pm like you mentioned possibly because of the crime situation in the neighborhoods it passes through. I was hoping two see at least a couple of Flxibles on the #76, but nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 The west end of Madison is no different demographically than the west end of Chicago Ave., but they get all Novas because of Bustracker. Also, the question is how many Flxibles are you talking about, considering that Chicago has about 100 each of Novas and New Flyers? Complaining about only a few buses due to the fleet increase for Brown Line service? However, thanks to our politicos, you probably won't have the Flxs much longer, as if or when the Doomsday plan kicks in, CTA will need 380 or so fewer buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 The west end of Madison is no different demographically than the west end of Chicago Ave., but they get all Novas because of Bustracker. Also, the question is how many Flxibles are you talking about, considering that Chicago has about 100 each of Novas and New Flyers? Complaining about only a few buses due to the fleet increase for Brown Line service? However, thanks to our politicos, you probably won't have the Flxs much longer, as if or when the Doomsday plan kicks in, CTA will need 380 or so fewer buses. But since none of the Chicago Garage routes nor the routes it is doing extras on are getting cut, then why should Chicago Garage get rid of any buses during the start of the Doomsday plan? Then they would have a shortage of buses and would be unable to run extra service on the North Park/Kedzie routes during rush hour to supplement three-track (the routes being 11, 22, 135, and 156). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 The west end of Madison is no different demographically than the west end of Chicago Ave. From what i've seen and heard, Chicago Avenue is much worser than Madison, but #66 Chicago doesn't run all Fixibles, they run some Novas too. However, thanks to our politicos, you probably won't have the Flxs much longer, as if or when the Doomsday plan kicks in, CTA will need 380 or so fewer I would think only 2 or 3 would be placed out of service because #19 United Center Express is the only route from Chicago to be cut, so I would say we'll need 383 or 382. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 But since none of the Chicago Garage routes nor the routes it is doing extras on are getting cut, then why should Chicago Garage get rid of any buses during the start of the Doomsday plan?Nobody said that. But they could retire the Flxibles and move comparable equipment (Novas and New Flyers) from garages where runs are being cut, like Archer and Forest Glen. It could also shift some of the runs to Kedzie, where most of the rush hour cuts would be. CTA would be really nuts, in a time of monetary shortage, if it paid to maintain old Flxs and mothballed newer equipment. Also, neither of you have said what percentage of Chicago is Flx, compared to Nova and New Flyer. And Chicago never had 382 buses. The garages page says it has a capacity of 250, and even if buslover reported that some are parked on the street, that doesn't get to 382. 382 would mean that Chicago is running 148 junks (assuming that it has approximately 122 Novas and 112 New Flyers), even more buses than North Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmadisonwi Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 All right, time to inject a fact or two into this discussion. As of August 22, Chicago Garage has 102 New Flyers, 126 Novas, and 68 Flxibles, for a total of 296 buses. That does put it above the optimal "design capacity" of the garage, I suppose, but right now most garages are above their optimal design capacity. You don't see Flxibles during middays or on weekends that often because Chicago Garage has newer equipment out there that can operate the longer runs. Flxibles are generally (note, I said generally) restricted to rush-hour tripper type work because they're very old and need more maintenance, are more prone to breakdowns, cost more to operate (because of the maintenance costs and because of them being less fuel efficient, among other reasons), and therefore, it makes more sense to use them as little as possible until they're retired. Also, #76 doesn't have any late-evening pull-outs, so unless there was a breakdown or another situation requiring a bus swap, if you see a Flxible on the route after 8 pm, it was out there at least from the PM rush. That goes against the claims that you see "zero" Flxibles on that route until after 8 pm. And since I live a half block from Diversey, I see (or hear) plenty of Diversey buses and see plenty of low-floor equipment out there late at night on weekdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Well, I think that happens in terms of a "racist" thing and also based on location. Yup, always a racist thing. Puleeeezzzz!!!! If things were so "racist" why is it that Kedzie and 77th got new buses before, say, North Park (land of the lakefront Liberals). Yup.....real racist. Thank you rmad for clearing things up...ugh !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 From what i've seen and heard, Chicago Avenue is much worser than Madison, but #66 Chicago doesn't run all Fixibles, they run some Novas too. I would think only 2 or 3 would be placed out of service because #19 United Center Express is the only route from Chicago to be cut, so I would say we'll need 383 or 382. First off, 66 Chicago also runs New Flyers all the time, not just Flxibles and Novas. Secondly, why would Chicago Garage put 2 or 3 Flxibles out of service just because the #19 United Center Express is being cut. Neither the basketball or the hockey season has started yet so few buses are being used on that at the time if at all any. Or maybe the route is also being run for special events at the United Center right now. I just don't know and can't assure anything. But 2 to 3 buses could just be used as extra equipment or transferred to another garage (but no garage needs extra buses with September and the Doomsday Plan coming up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Yup, always a racist thing. Puleeeezzzz!!!! If things were so "racist" why is it that Kedzie and 77th got new buses before, say, North Park (land of the lakefront Liberals). Yup.....real racist. Thank you rmad for clearing things up...ugh !!! I don't really think it's a racist thing at all. I think it's really based on the location of where the most crime occurs, but that still doesn't explain why Kedzie and 77th (with the 79th Street crime) got New Flyers before North Park. They got them first because Kedzie and 77th had unrehabbed Flxibles that were in serious need of retirement while North Park had rehabbed TMC Rtses that were in no need of immediate retirement. So why retire good buses before worse ones just because of crime in the area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Alright, i'll leave you guys to make fun of me on this forum. I have said enough and i'm out. I have mine opinions and you guys have your opinions, and I will not share my opinions anymore in this topic. Goodbye. I regret even saying a word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Alright, i'll leave you guys to make fun of me on this forum. I have said enough and i'm out. I have mine opinions and you guys have your opinions, and I will not share my opinions anymore in this topic. Goodbye. I regret even saying a word... Buslover, you have to be careful in what you state in these forums. You cant just state that something is racist. On what basis do you have to make these kinds of remarks? Are you sure something or someone is racist or is this your opinion? What facts do have to support this? One thing I know is that 80 % of CTA is run by african americans so how could it be racist? The west and southside garages always get the new buses first! North side either gets later new vehicles or hand me downs. Northside usually gets shortchanged when it comes to new vehicles. Southsiders have nothing to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 The west and southside garages always get the new buses first! North side either gets later new vehicles or hand me downs. Northside usually gets shortchanged when it comes to new vehicles. Southsiders have nothing to complain about. Not totally true. When the Novas came in for example, Forest Glen got 60-70% of the garage retrofitted with new, or newer buses. That is the time the 5300 Flxibles were transferred to Kedzie for the 6000 series buses, which were and are (for the most part) newer and in better condition. This of course, because 6000's were kept inside at Kedzie and Forest Glen has an outdoor yard. Anyway, Forest Glen got 100 new (Nova) buses before 103, 77 and 74. North Park got a slew of 4400's and 4500's when they arrived (via 77th street) and got the "experimental" 5800s, all again before 103 and 74. Chicago ave has seemed to be in the middle all the time (they got 5400's after Forest Glen beat them up a bit as the Glen got 5500's and 5600's) and are getting the New Flyers in the middle of the overall order. The bottom line is that the north side gets their share of new stuff. Also, you can't lump north side/south side into one ethnic category. I would classify Archer as a southside garage, yet it goes through a heap of white neighborhoods...and I think I could say that 74th also covers a fair share of white areas. I would put Chicago and Kedzie as north side (not as much as Forest Glen or North Park), yet they cover many Hispanic and African American areas. I think by assigning new equipment to garages such as Kedzie, Chicago and probably 74th street, you could cover just about any ethnic nationality you want. I often question why Archer gets the new stuff 1st or 2nd most of the time. You could have an argument here, as those buses cover a large part of the 10th ward and southwest sides, which are predomintely white. I guess the long and short of it is that the stuff gets doled out pretty evenly, for the most part...just seems a bit off as the delivery time drags on. But I will say this, the buses out of 74th street, and Chicago ave (yes, even the Flxibles there) are maintained well and from an appearance standpoint are in fairly decent physical shape. On the flip side, 77th and North Park (103 is a close 3rd) seem to have the stuff that is the most beat up. Everyone else is in the middle. Other than some garages being outside, I can't understand why the maintenace differs from one garage to another...it should be a standard !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Well then, if you guys don't think it's racist thing, then why aren't there hardly any New Flyers ever running on Diversey? They're always on Fullerton or Pulaski, so give me an answer to THAT. My basis on making that remark is the fact Diversey ALWAYS get those broken Fixibles all the damn time when I want a New Flyer. Chicago (not much) and Kedzie are West Side garages. Actually, the southsiders have ALOT to complain about. They have to get on those beaten up buses everyday, I certainly would complain. The facts supporting my facts are the facts they always give us a crappy bus up here (not really the Fixibles and not including the Flyers). Yes, I said the NOVAs are crap. I think it's "kind of" (now note people, I said kind of, don't bite my head off) racist because they want to always give certain routes from Chicago an old bus (take #70 Division or #66 Chicago for an example) because they don't want them New Flyers to be damaged, and i'm tired of riding the same buses everyday, and don't even think about telling me that I should go on another route, I don't have time to go 'joyriding" (on buses anyway) anymore or the money. And no CTA5750, the northside doesn't really get hand me downs. Chicago got the New Flyers, North Park the Optimas and Forest Glen the NOVAs. Also, Busjack confused me when he said "380 buses". Thought he meant the Fixibles, not all the buses in general, i'm sorry, so sue me. Then again, why do I have to explain myself to you all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Ho hum...saw 1373 heading east on Diversey during the storm Thursday night at Diversey and Elston at 8:30 pm. On Friday saw 1386 laying over signed for Diversey-Harlem at Diversey and Sheridan. Last I checked, these are New Flyers. The most places I see Chicago Flxibles are on Pulaski in the terminal at Peterson and on Grand and Chicago headed into Navy Pier. I would say that 1 of every 5 at Pulaski and Peterson is a New Flyer...the rest are balanced out between Novas and Flxibles. Once again, I will state, the old and new is pretty well balanced out !!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Ho hum...saw 1373 heading east on Diversey during the storm Thursday night at Diversey and Elston at 8:30 pm. On Friday saw 1386 laying over signed for Diversey-Harlem at Diversey and Sheridan. Last I checked, these are New Flyers. The most places I see Chicago Flxibles are on Pulaski in the terminal at Peterson and on Grand and Chicago headed into Navy Pier. I would say that 1 of every 5 at Pulaski and Peterson is a New Flyer...the rest are balanced out between Novas and Flxibles. Once again, I will state, the old and new is pretty well balanced out !!!!!!!!!!! Well, i'm not out in those hours. I'm mainly out before rush-hour and that's when all NOVAs (a couple of Fixibles too) are out. The only time I see Flyers is rush hour and on weekends. Pulaski is an all Fixible and NOVA route I would say, altough they run some New Flyers. The New Flyers are mainly on Fullerton. You're right, actually, the old and new is balanced out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Well then, if you guys don't think it's racist thing, then why aren't there hardly any New Flyers ever running on Diversey? They're always on Fullerton or Pulaski, so give me an answer to THAT. My basis on making that remark is the fact Diversey ALWAYS get those broken Fixibles all the damn time when I want a New Flyer. Chicago (not much) and Kedzie are West Side garages. Actually, the southsiders have ALOT to complain about. They have to get on those beaten up buses everyday, I certainly would complain. The facts supporting my facts are the facts they always give us a crappy bus up here (not really the Fixibles and not including the Flyers). Yes, I said the NOVAs are crap. I think it's "kind of" (now note people, I said kind of, don't bite my head off) racist because they want to always give certain routes from Chicago an old bus (take #70 Division or #66 Chicago for an example) because they don't want them New Flyers to be damaged, and i'm tired of riding the same buses everyday, and don't even think about telling me that I should go on another route, I don't have time to go 'joyriding" (on buses anyway) anymore or the money. And no CTA5750, the northside doesn't really get hand me downs. Chicago got the New Flyers, North Park the Optimas and Forest Glen the NOVAs. Also, Busjack confused me when he said "380 buses". Thought he meant the Fixibles, not all the buses in general, i'm sorry, so sue me. Then again, why do I have to explain myself to you all? Buslover, relax! Why does it bother you that some streets gets some buses while others get different ones. If it bothers you so much, Complain to CTA! The fact that these buses are now here and doing their thing thats all that matters. I cant explain why Diversey get Flxibles and Chicago gets New Flyers. Dont worry, the 5300 Flxibles will soon be gone, youll miss those buses! and eventually Diversey will have the New Flyers and your troubles will end. But dont throw in the racial thing ok, that has no place here on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Does Chicago Garage run any Flxibles during the weekend at all? I was trying to catch a Flxible on either 76 Diversey, 74 Fullerton, 54 Cicero, or 53 Pulaski, but I didn't even see one Flxible on Saturday or Sunday. What a waist of valuable time! Does anyone know where to find a Chicago Flxible during the weekend or are there zero Flxibles running on either Saturday and Sunday? Not even during midday could I spot during the past week, but during rush hour they were pretty much on every route, except for 20 Madison(with the Novas and Bustracker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Well then, if you guys don't think it's racist thing, then why aren't there hardly any New Flyers ever running on Diversey?On thing that must also be considered is that on the grid system, a crosstown bus goes through several neighborhoods of different composition. The ethnic, racial, and economic composition of Diversey varies from the lakefront, central area, and far western one. I doubt that your complaint about Diversey had anything to do with those living near Diversey and Pine Grove. Similarly, the 55 bus goes through at least 4 identifiable areas in that regard: Hyde Park, Grand Crossing/North Englewood, Back of the Yards (which now seems to go to Kedzie and encompass Gage Park) and the area around Midway Airport. One could argue that the CTA discriminates against white people, based on the proposed cutbacks on the 53AL, 54A, 55A, 55N, 56A, 62H, 64, 69, X80, 85A, 90N, and 165. Who knows how many ethnic groups are affected by cuts on the 93 and 96? On the other hand, the more reasonable explanations are that those are weak routes, CTA hasn't figured out how to provide efficient feeder service to the Orange Line and Blue Line stations from outlying areas, those people don't ride the bus (or at least in sufficient numbers), or CTA is arbitrarily cutting most routes that don't run on Sunday, while leaving a few to quell public dissent. You and others say that Chicago Garage isn't losing any regular routes. Those areas are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwantae Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 From what i've seen and heard, Chicago Avenue is much worser than Madison, but #66 Chicago doesn't run all Fixibles, they run some Novas too. I would think only 2 or 3 would be placed out of service because #19 United Center Express is the only route from Chicago to be cut, so I would say we'll need 383 or 382. Well, I go to my church by Chicago Ave./ Central at Destiny Worship Ctr. And I have not see any Flxibles on Weekends on Rt. 66 since 1400s came in Service. I really seen most of them on Rt. 72, 74, 76 and 70 though. Would you think it is a racist though about 74th Garage doesnt have any low floor buses because most of them are Ghetto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Let's settle this once and forall about the racism. All of the Chicago Garage routes run through both white and african-american and some latino neighborhoods. This means that Chicago Garage does not run certain buses on certain routes because of racism because all the routes pass through a mix of good and bad neighborhoods. Because of this Chicago Garage cannot preserve newer buses on any route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Let's settle this once and forall about the racism. All of the Chicago Garage routes run through both white and african-american and some latino neighborhoods. This means that Chicago Garage does not run certain buses on certain routes because of racism because all the routes pass through a mix of good and bad neighborhoods. Because of this Chicago Garage cannot preserve newer buses on any route. Buslover is the one throwing in the racism remarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Alright, alright, alright, whatever. I admit, this has nothing to do with racism then. I don't care what kind of bus they run on any route as long as the bus ain't breaking down. You guys are now the ones who need to calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusExpert32 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 I'm perfectly calm, I justed calmly explained why racism has nothing to do with the CTA and its route assignments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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