#77 Massive Overcrowding

[sw4400]

I made the mistake of riding the Belmont bus to Kildare or Kostner once(I'm not sure which). Anyway, I was riding west from Lincoln and Belmont(I think most Belmont riders know where I'm going with this) and when we approached Kimball, the Operator turned into the Blue Line Subway stop there. No big deal about this until he lets what seems like the entire city on his bus. When he finishes loading, all seats are taken, the aisles are filled from the back all the way to the stairs with people. Honestly, these buses aren't supposed to be this crammed, are they? You couldn't even get off with the sheer numbers of people blocking the front and rear doors. Anyone else(CTA Bus Operators included) feel that problems on routes like this one should be remedied?

[MetroShadow]

I would be one to advocate using articulateds on massively busy routes like this. Normally, that 77 is going to get crowded from the Red Line to (at least) Central. I've been in situations where a bus, that is on time, would end up bunching due to passenger loading/unloading.

Of course, one would argue short turning the buses, but I don't think it would solve anyway.

[Busjack]

I was about to make the same points as D. Sorrell. I had previously nominated 77 for the hybrid articulateds. However, I might disagree with his short turn point, if in fact, the huge crowd boarding is all at the the Blue Line station. That would indicate a need for greater frequency only west of there.

Other than that, that's sort of what life is like in the city, when CTA has to schedule based on crush capacity, due to limited resources. The service standard is supposed to be about 70 to a 40 foot bus (maybe a few less).

[Danielsmusic]

What I think is that every other WB 77 should short-turn at the Blue Line and every other EB 77 should short-turn at the blue line. This would still provide the full E-W connection for the people who are riding a longer distance, but would also create essentially two routes: 77A and 77B. If Belmont was wider, I would nominate it for an express/limited-type service, but that really wouldn't work based on the current street width.

[Guest]

What I think is that every other WB 77 should short-turn at the Blue Line and every other EB 77 should short-turn at the blue line. This would still provide the full E-W connection for the people who are riding a longer distance, but would also create essentially two routes: 77A and 77B. If Belmont was wider, I would nominate it for an express/limited-type service, but that really wouldn't work based on the current street width.

Knowing from experience Belmont has had many years with this problem. The worst part is that there really is nothing that can be done to alleviate the overcrowding. Putting more buses on Belmont will only create more traffic troubles already present. Artics would not be suitable because of the narrowness of Belmont ave. for most of its route plus the fact that there is simply no room along the lakefront or the Notebart Museum for artics to layover. Splitting up the route certainly wont help. Express buses although a good idea, will never have a chance to pass locals because there is simply too much traffic on Belmont particularly on the east end and western portions of the route during rush hours. Belmont is an overcrowded street due to people, cars, buses and bus passengers. Short turning buses will only infuriate many riders.

[MetroShadow]

Knowing from experience Belmont has had many years with this problem. The worst part is that there really is nothing that can be done to alleviate the overcrowding. Putting more buses on Belmont will only create more traffic troubles already present. Artics would not be suitable because of the narrowness of Belmont ave. for most of its route plus the fact that there is simply no room along the lakefront or the Notebart Museum for artics to layover. Splitting up the route certainly wont help. Express buses although a good idea, will never have a chance to pass locals because there is simply too much traffic on Belmont particularly on the east end and western portions of the route during rush hours. Belmont is an overcrowded street due to people, cars, buses and bus passengers. Short turning buses will only infuriate many riders.

I think the issue of the lanes on Belmont is moot, since I've seen buses on Clark, Broadway, and Clarendon (although not much traffic there). As far as the eastern terminal, just send them only to Diversey/Cannon without having to go to the museum or have them layover along Cannon. Unless there is a definitive method to alleviate traffic on Belmont (which is already noted as damn near impossible), the only sensible solution is to use longer buses to prevent the overcrowding mess. And if its possible to use Artics on Addison, at least on the "narrower" lanes, then Belmont should be taken into consideration.

Splitting up 77 into virtually two routes is playing Russian Roulette if you were to go from the Lakefront all the way to (for example) Harlem. You would have to hope that the bus you need will go to Harlem/Oriole loop or to Cumberland as opposed to the Blue Line. Same problem if you were to go from Harlem to the Red Line. In the event that you have buses in the rush hour (which the route can't keep up the schedule anyway), you would be forced to wait for a bus that'll complete the trip, or force a mandatory transfer bus that MUST wait at the blue line (I'm trying to make it sound less complicated than it already is).

While short-turning has their successes (290 Touhy aside, the 79), this is a case-study in itself and the brass should examine how inefficient this particular route can be.

(I personally would allow FG to acquire several artics for its heavier routes such as this.)

[busfan4022]

Ride the 80/X80, or the 49/X49 during the morning rush, and I assure you it is much worse.

[jajuan]

Ride the 80/X80, or the 49/X49 during the morning rush, and I assure you it is much worse.

I actually rode an X49 from Roosevelt to the Plaza on a trip to Blue Island. I'll admit that the wait time was a little bit longer than I would have liked but that was because of heavy traffic coming south from the Eisenhower. That's why I gave myself extra time. But once the bus did arrive I had a fairly pleasant trip. During the trip, bus actually passed up the two locals that passed me by before it arrived at Roosevelt. So that benefit was worth the extra ten minute wait time. Once it made it to clear traffic after passing the industrial strip and rail yards between Ogden and 18th Street it still gave a faster trip than the 49 local buses would have.

[Danielsmusic]

Splitting up 77 into virtually two routes is playing Russian Roulette if you were to go from the Lakefront all the way to (for example) Harlem. You would have to hope that the bus you need will go to Harlem/Oriole loop or to Cumberland as opposed to the Blue Line. Same problem if you were to go from Harlem to the Red Line. In the event that you have buses in the rush hour (which the route can't keep up the schedule anyway), you would be forced to wait for a bus that'll complete the trip, or force a mandatory transfer bus that MUST wait at the blue line (I'm trying to make it sound less complicated than it already is).

I'm not saying to put it into two routes, but to have some runs SEEM like two routes. I'm not saying that CTA should take the buses that are currently assigned to the 77 and split them up. I'm saying that the runs that seemed like 77A and 77B would be supplementary service. No, I definitely agree that, with service so bad at certain areas already, not continuing the same level of full-route service could only anger passengers.

[jesi2282]

So your saying the #77 should have something like the #151 Belmont/Halsted supplementary trips?

[rmadisonwi]

Artics would not be suitable because of the narrowness of Belmont ave. for most of its route plus the fact that there is simply no room along the lakefront or the Notebart Museum for artics to layover.

You can fit artics in the Nature Museum. We do it every weekday morning.

[Danielsmusic]

You can fit artics in the Nature Museum. We do it every weekday morning.

Mos def. EVERY AM!

[Danielsmusic]

So your saying the #77 should have something like the #151 Belmont/Halsted supplementary trips?

Yes, but the supplementary service should be on both sides of the Blue Line.

[rmadisonwi]

Mos def. EVERY AM!

Good actor. Did a great job as Ford in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." What about him every morning?

[Guest]

Ride the 80/X80, or the 49/X49 during the morning rush, and I assure you it is much worse.

As an experienced 80 /X80 operator I can truthfully say that Irving is much better off than Belmont.

Irving has plenty of room for buses to maneuver. I left Belmont to go to Irving Pk because the work is believe it or not much easier. As a wide street for most of it route, Irving Pk could deal with whatever traffic problems that might arise but the buses always get through. Cant say the same for Belmont.

[Danielsmusic]

Good actor. Did a great job as Ford in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." What about him every morning?

After he became famous, people started using the phrase "mos def" in place of the words "most definitely"

[nextstopchicago]

After he became famous, people started using the phrase "mos def" in place of the words "most definitely"

Just to tie together the loose ends of this thread, maybe we could call the new supplementary service on Belmont the 'Black Star Line':

take the Black Star Line

right on home

take the Black Star Line

right on home

From Mos Def's side project with Talib Kweili.

[busfan4022]

Why is this topic veering off to some rapper no one cares about anymore?

[Buslover88]

Why is this topic veering off to some rapper no one cares about anymore?

Sorry, but I have to agree with this.

[MetroShadow]

Mos def. EVERY AM!

Quite a good actor and rapper, indeed.

As for the artics, I have never seen one in my life, but then again I've not been around the museum in nearly 4 years.

[Danielsmusic]

Quite a good actor and rapper, indeed.

As for the artics, I have never seen one in my life, but then again I've not been around the museum in nearly 4 years.

The 156 and 134 sit through their layovers there. I've seen the 143 a few times, but I don't think it's usually there. And, unless the 134 is REALLY early, it will usually just sit for a few minutes at the southwest corner of Belmont and Sheridan.

[rmadisonwi]

Actually, the 134 isn't supposed to sit at the Nature Museum. That route is supposed to take recovery at North & Lake Shore. Buses generally sit off to the side on the northbound on ramp. The 156 will sit there, and then run in service from Fullerton southbound.

[Danielsmusic]

Actually, the 134 isn't supposed to sit at the Nature Museum. That route is supposed to take recovery at North & Lake Shore. Buses generally sit off to the side on the northbound on ramp. The 156 will sit there, and then run in service from Fullerton southbound.

I know the 134 isn't supposed to sit there, but I've seen it there a number of times. A Kedzie driver told me that if there's not much room at North, drivers will sit at the nature museum.