South Cook/ Will Restructuring

[renardo870]

Update: I moved this to at least a more appropriate thread:

I assume you are acknowledging that the first group is in the South Cook plan. I still think that the proposed 386 is too long with regard to such things as driver breaks and keeping a schedule. I would split the Harlem and 183rd parts. 831 apparently wasn't getting plenty ridership, or they wouldn't have been continually messing with it (i.e. via Orland or via Lemont).

530 might work, since there doesn't seem to be regular service between Naperville and Yorktown. I am assuming that the problem about making Yorktown a staging center has been worked out.

554 I question, since it is a weak route. On the other hand, there were proposals to make 208 run the complete Golf Rd. corridor, from Evanston to Elgin. I wonder why that wasn't implemented, but I am pretty sure it is because the ridership isn't there.

As far as the 353 route.....that is the proposed route from 95th cta to river oaks mall.

[Guest metralink]

Anyone know about the phase 2 changes going in next month? what about the dedicated stops on route 364 in anticipation of transit signal priority ?

[Busjack]

Anyone know about the phase 2 changes going in next month?

Well, the Pace site now has the Second Phase taking effect on March 22, and various Passenger Notices posted. The dedicated stops on 364 are also mentioned.

However, this is not the big restructuring previously indicated. No new routes, and none of the other ideas (such as merging 357 and 358) were implemented.

It also says that public hearings will be held in April for another round in the South and Southwest areas.

[Guest metralink]

Pace newsletter talks about south restructuring phase 2

newsletter for stakeholders of America’s Most Efficient Suburban Transit Agency

Vol. VI, Number 4 www.pacebus.com

March 13, 2009

Pace is the suburban public transit agency for Chicagoland’s six-county metropolitan region. As the 7th largest bus agency in the U.S., Pace operates fixed bus routes, vanpools and paratransit services in nearly 250 municipalities consisting of 5.2 million residents. Visit the Route Finder for bus route information.

Schedule improvements ahead in south suburbs

Phase II of the South Cook County-Will County Restructuring Initiative will be implemented beginning March 22, affecting service on ten routes in south and southwest Cook County, and three in Will County.

In South and Southwest Cook County, schedules will be changed to improve on time performance. Modifications generally range from just a few minutes to up to ten minutes, but will be significant for riders needing to make connections. Pace Chairman Richard Kwasneski said, "Our routes in this area have suffered from poor on-time performance because of railroad crossings, heavy traffic and other factors. We've started from scratch to redesign these schedules to make them more reliable for passengers." The new schedules have been posted online on the Initiative Update Page and will be available on buses in the coming week. To differentiate the new schedules from the old, the updated schedules have been printed with red ink.

Additionally, Route 364 159th Street, which links the Hammond Transit Center to Orland Square Mall, will be the first Pace route to see the implementation of a posted stop system. Pace's longstanding policy has been that boarding and alighting passengers at posted stops is preferred, but buses will stop on the passenger's signal provided it is safe to do so. Beginning March 22, Route 364 will only pick up and drop off passengers where bus stop signs are posted. The change will improve on-time performance and the speed of operation along one of the most congested roads in the south suburbs. The conversion to posted stops on this route- and others in the future- is a first step toward implementing arterial rapid transit on corridors in the Pace service area.

Beginning March 22, Route 364 will only stop at locations with bus stop signs.

In Will County, three routes will be modified, ranging from added service to a schedule modification. These changes are in addition to service restructuring in the Joliet area that took place in November.

More comprehensive service changes lie ahead in future phases of the Initiative, including substantial route modifications planned to take place in south and southwest Cook County this Summer. Details, including the arrangements for public hearings taking place in April, will be announced at a later date.

For more information on the service changes, please visit the South Cook County Will County Initiative update page

Pace to receive federal funds for enhancement projects

In addition to the federal stimulus funds as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, Pace will receive federal money that was part of the appropriations bill recently passed by Congress and signed into law on Wednesday by President Obama.

Pace has two projects in the bill, including $475,000 to construct a transit center at Toyota Park in Bridgeview from Congressman Dan Lipinski, and $237,500 to fund the alternatives analysis process for the J-Route Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project planned for DuPage County from Congressman Peter Roskam.

Pace looks forward to enhancing service using the funds secured by representatives Lipinski and Roskam and is grateful for their efforts to secure this money. We send our thanks to Illinois' entire congressional delegation for their hard work in Washington to represent the needs and interests of Pace and all of its riders!

"Moving into the Future" is a weekly newsletter provided by Pace Suburban Bus to update interested parties on the services Pace provides and the progress it makes to constantly improve. Forward to others as you wish. For best results, please print in landscape format. Please submit feedback or remove yourself from the mailing list by calling 847-228-2421 or e-mail your request to govt.affairs@pacebus.com.

© 2009 Pace Suburban Bus

[Busjack]

Come to think about it, it is March 30 and no word about route 889, which was supposed to start today.

[MetroShadow]

A potential target date for the next step could be June 7. If you check the video that accompanies the Posted Stops PSA for route 364, Routes 350, 352, and 370 will be posted stops only as well.

[Busjack]

A potential target date for the next step will be June 7. If you check the video that accompanies the Posted Stops PSA for route 364, Routes 350, 352, and 370 will be posted stops only as well.

Thanks. For some strange reason, it did not come up in Firefox, but did in Safari. (I installed IE8, but find that it is virtually useless).

Of course, the interesting thing about it mentioning 370 is that based on the plans that were previously posted, 370 was supposed to be abolished and 352 was supposed to take over that part of the route. As I mentioned in connection with Pace posting new 370 signs, apparently they are not ready to take that step yet.

[MetroShadow]

Thanks. For some strange reason, it did not come up in Firefox, but did in Safari. (I installed IE8, but find that it is virtually useless).

Of course, the interesting thing about it mentioning 370 is that based on the plans that were previously posted, 370 was supposed to be abolished and 352 was supposed to take over that part of the route. As I mentioned in connection with Pace posting new 370 signs, apparently they are not ready to take that step yet.

Oddly enough, it worked for me in Firefox. =)

If its already not planned, perhaps that route might be realigned or might end up interlining with 352 (although that would defeat the purpose of combining the two). Then again, having 352 spread from 95/Ryan to Chicago Heights would be really stretching the buses on that route. I forgot the plans in which what route replaces 352 south of Harvey (via Dixie).

Edit: Answered my own question...check it out.

[Busjack]

Edit: Answered my own question...check it out.

Again thanks. No maps of the proposals, but I see a few hints:

"Proposed Service Enhancements and Timing Adjustments, to" Route 354 Harvey-Tinley Park--not clear if this implies the prior proposal to make 354 into a 147th-Central-167th loop, and leaving Tinley Park to the 183rd St. bus (see below).

Also the feeders are on this list--they were "no change" before.

"Proposed Implementation of New Services on"

* Route 356 Harvey Homewood-Tinley Park--Apparently the proposed 386 from Midway to Harvey via Harlem and 183rd is being split. I always said that route was too long.

* Route 372 Dixie Highway--Apparently (as you noted) the substitute for 352 through Homewood, instead of the Olympia Fields area call and ride.

[artthouwill]

I can't help but wonder if some of these proposals in the various "restructuring" is for the sake of equipment. Pace is purchasing more Eldorado's (30 ft buses) which are cheaper than 40 ft buses. Thus the feeder routes (Homewood, Richton Park feeders for example) would get the new buses and the big buses would be used on heavier routes. At Pace West, which has an abundance of routes that could use 30 ft buses (302,304, 305, 311, 315, 318, 319, 320, 325, 330,331) would get some and bigger buses could be sent to Academy/Colonial or Pace NW to retire those old Orions. I'm sure Pace SW and Pace NW has some routes that could use short buses.

Perhaps the "expressing" of the 352 and 353 is designed to get away with the 35ft NABIs as opposed to the 40ft buses. I know the stated intent was to provide faster service for South Suburban residents, but I don't buy that.

I also expect Pace Heritage to become all Eldorado at some point, freeing up more 35 ft NABIs. With a few more Eldorados, Fox Valley can retire the few Orions it has.

[Busjack]

I agree with most of that, but certainly can't see how one can put smaller than a 40 foot bus on 352 or 353. I take Pace at face value that the limited stops on 364 and on the routes DSorrell found were to speed up service and eventually install transit signal priority. Maybe some of the new routes (356 and 372*) and big extensions (such as 348 to Moraine VC and South Suburban College, or the 354 loop, if still in the plan) only justify 30 foot buses.

With regard to Heritage, I previously said that the 6600s will probably be replaced by ElDorados (in fact, some 2500s were replaced with 6600s), but they still have some 40 footers, and the question is whether they are still necessary. Probably the same for Waukegan, where some 35 footers are already overloaded.

You might also have some overkill on West routes, although the fact that 2665 or 2666 run on 319, and some others are light may indicate that West might get more ElDorados coming as part of the stimulus package. I would probably put 747 before some of the West routes you listed.

Of course, I mentioned that there were plenty of North Shore and Northwest routes where Orion Is could be replaced with ElDorados.

My guess is we'll have to wait 6 months to find out how they will be deployed.

_____

*I'm assuming that the substitution of the 372 designation for the call and ride indicates that a bus might be used. However, as 510 and 535 illustrate, that doesn't necessarily preclude the use of a "community vehicle" (small paratransit).

[MetroShadow]

Here's the proposed changes to the south suburban routes in Cook County I think half of our predictions were right, I think...

[Busjack]

Here's the proposed changes to the south suburban routes in Cook County I think half of our predictions were right, I think...

Muchas gracias.

By predictions, I assume you mean what I read between the lines with regard to routes 356 and 372.

Some surprises:

• 348 doesn't go as far as Moraine Valley College as in the previous plans, and thus 385 is not affected.
  
• 355 feeds into 95th/Red Line instead of Harvey/Metra Electric. I always thought that the biggest impediment to routing to the Red Line (unlike when 353 was cut back from downtown) was that there was no northbound exit from I-94 to 95th. It appears that the new route will run via 115th and King Drive, sort of like the 353. If I were doing it, it would be via Stony Island and 95th.
  Query: Is this a signal that it would be cut back to 115th if the Red Line extension ever comes to fruition?
  Update: I later saw that part of the theory was to serve the Kensington ME station.
  
• The call and rides are gone, but 372 is only between Homewood and Chicago Heights. That certainly would reinforce the surmise that a 2600 could handle it. Also, 348 is extended to Harvey to eliminate the need for the Pheonix call and ride.
  
• Not any really new services, such as the University Park Industrial or Weber Road flex services. Also, no mention of 889, although that wouldn't have been a restructuring issue, per se, since it was supposedly funded by JARC or CMAQ.
  
• None of the additional service to Lincoln Mall via 366, 367, or 383.
  

[MetroShadow]

I think the logic of the 355 cutback was the same with the 210: massive delays from downtown, and it was too expensive to operate with few passengers.

Although I've ridden on both routes (including the 210 before the cutback to the Red Line) and I thought that there was enough demand on these routes. The 355, even though the logic is that one wants to eliminate duplication in hegewisch, does have some level of ridership that would warrant service. Maybe send two buses through there would help because I don't think anyone wants to ride the 30, spend $4 on the SS, or take that rare 108 school trip towards downtown.

I've rode the 353 a few times, and there's considerable amount of people who would board at Homewood, but not discharge until roughly 170th. I wonder how this would effect routing through Hwy 6 (since buses now get turned back there or at Riverdale)

As for the others routes, that 352, 370, 356, 372 boondoggle would straighten itself out with the changes. Perhaps I would still contend that the 352 is still being stretched but a straight shot through Homewood and Chicago Heights would help with the Posted-Stops.

There is still another phase to go, but that wouldn't happen until 2010. There is a distinct possibility that 889 (or 856* for that matter) would be up for grabs at anytime.

*856 is the proposed Plainfield-Medical Center Flyer route.

[twyztdmynd]

Just some rookie speculation...

With the proposed termination of 888 can Pace be stalling the implementation of the 889 to take the busses from 888 and place on 889 ? After all, there's no mention of the contract being awarded yet?

[Busjack]

I think the logic of the 355 cutback was the same with the 210: massive delays from downtown, and it was too expensive to operate with few passengers.

Although I've ridden on both routes (including the 210 before the cutback to the Red Line) and I thought that there was enough demand on these routes. The 355, even though the logic is that one wants to eliminate duplication in hegewisch, does have some level of ridership that would warrant service. Maybe send two buses through there would help because I don't think anyone wants to ride the 30, spend $4 on the SS, or take that rare 108 school trip towards downtown.

I've rode the 353 a few times, and there's considerable amount of people who would board at Homewood, but not discharge until roughly 170th. I wonder how this would effect routing through Hwy 6 (since buses now get turned back there or at Riverdale)

Cutting back 355 was expected, except that the prior proposal was to have it feed the Harvey Metra, not 95th. The Harvey Metra one seemed better justified, because you would get a quicker ride to Michigan Ave, and Pace wouldn't have to make the trip up the Bishop Ford. My only surmise is that the riders didn't want to pay two fares or use the Link-Up Sticker, and hence the trip to 95th.

While 355 had patronage in Hegewisch, apparently Pace was only concerned with suburban riders going there (in references in prior plans to Hegewisch still being served by 358), and doesn't feel an obligation to serve riders in the city, per se, especially since they can take the South Shore.

I'm not sure what you mean about "board at Homewood and not discharge until roughly 170th" unless you are saying that the segment between Homewood and Cottage/170th to be discontinued had local ridership. It basically looks like Homewood didn't get any early morning service, and about once an hour after that. I'm still surprised that the Riverdale short turn 353 is retained as essentially the South King Drive bus, but maybe the schedule will show reduced frequency. With regard to your other comment about short turns, one would think that the 170-Cottage one would remain for when River Oaks is not open. Again, we'll have to wait to see the posted schedule.

I hadn't heard anything about 856. Part of the I-55 demonstration project? Any link?

[Busjack]

Just some rookie speculation...

With the proposed termination of 888 can Pace be stalling the implementation of the 889 to take the busses from 888 and place on 889 ? After all, there's no mention of the contract being awarded yet?

The 887 slide indicated more service on 887. It appears that all Pace was trying to do was eliminate the Park and Ride behind its South Holland facility and thus have one bus act as does the current 877/888 Combo run.

The better source of speculation is why the contract wasn't awarded yet, and if that is related to the RFP for up to 50 OTR coaches. I don't know if you are still at Colonial, and whether management discusses contracts on which it might have supplied bids.

You are also correct about the 6900s in that cutting back 355 should eliminate the need for two of them, plus whatever need the new 877 will have compared to the old 877/888.

[artthouwill]

Muchas gracias.

By predictions, I assume you mean what I read between the lines with regard to routes 356 and 372.

Some surprises:

• 348 doesn't go as far as Moraine Valley College as in the previous plans, and thus 385 is not affected.
  
• 355 feeds into 95th/Red Line instead of Harvey/Metra Electric. I always thought that the biggest impediment to routing to the Red Line (unlike when 353 was cut back from downtown) was that there was no northbound exit from I-94 to 95th. It appears that the new route will run via 115th and King Drive, sort of like the 353. If I were doing it, it would be via Stony Island and 95th.
  Query: Is this a signal that it would be cut back to 115th if the Red Line extension ever comes to fruition?
  Update: I later saw that part of the theory was to serve the Kensington ME station.
  
• The call and rides are gone, but 372 is only between Homewood and Chicago Heights. That certainly would reinforce the surmise that a 2600 could handle it. Also, 348 is extended to Harvey to eliminate the need for the Pheonix call and ride.
  
• Not any really new services, such as the University Park Industrial or Weber Road flex services. Also, no mention of 889, although that wouldn't have been a restructuring issue, per se, since it was supposedly funded by JARC or CMAQ.
  
• None of the additional service to Lincoln Mall via 366, 367, or 383.
  

A few things I noted.

No mention of 1/2 intervals between stops on 352 north of 127th and the 353 between 111th and 130th.

Why not just terminate the 355 at Hegewisch station? Not much difference between Hegewisch and Kensington?

I think the 353 routing to River Oaks via 170th makes for a long route. Certainly could be routed via 162nd (159th) unless there are some trips meant to serve a certain Thorton high school.

[Busjack]

A few things I noted.

No mention of 1/2 intervals between stops on 352 north of 127th and the 353 between 111th and 130th.

The posted stop policy was the First Phase restructuring. See the current 352 and 353 maps. 353 between 115th and 95th was posted stop territory anyway.

Why not just terminate the 355 at Hegewisch station? Not much difference between Hegewisch and Kensington?

I guess the question is whether you hand off to the South Shore (even though branded Metra there), CTA, or Metra. There are also the nasty railroad crossings south of the South Shore, which would cause delays.

I think the 353 routing to River Oaks via 170th makes for a long route. Certainly could be routed via 162nd (159th) unless there are some trips meant to serve a certain Thorton high school.

Like Thornwood, now that you mention it. You can't make the next Eddie Curry walk. 159th is adequately served by 364. I think that the main purpose was to eliminate the snaking in Thornton.

[MetroShadow]

Re: The 856

Yes, the I-55 project. Yes, it was passed with the ICE grants, but haven't heard much after that.

[west towns]

Re: The 856

Yes, the I-55 project. Yes, it was passed with the ICE grants, but haven't heard much after that.

wasn't there talk about service starting in the fall?

[west towns]

On route 355 cuts, why do they expect passengers to just simply transfer to either Metra or the CTA when passengers can simply switch to either the 350/352 or 358 right now and do the same thing.

My guess is these passengers don't want to take the Red Line or Metra as they continue to ride a one service ride directly to downtown chicago. So why would passengers mysteriously just give in and say sure we'll love to be inconvenienced and give up our one-seat ride.

IF this is a matter of 'service duplication' then why doesn't Metra end the UP west line at Oak Park and force everyone to take the CTA green line. It doesn't make sense.

Also, the Metra SE line study talks about express service or BRT options maybe starting as a precurser to the rail service. So why is an existing express service which can be modified to serve the SE rail markets being cut to only be brought back as a start up service to the Metra rail service?

On a regional planning basis this makes no sense.

[MetroShadow]

On route 355 cuts, why do they expect passengers to just simply transfer to either Metra or the CTA when passengers can simply switch to either the 350/352 or 358 right now and do the same thing.

My guess is these passengers don't want to take the Red Line or Metra as they continue to ride a one service ride directly to downtown chicago. So why would passengers mysteriously just give in and say sure we'll love to be inconvenienced and give up our one-seat ride.

Again, same reasoning for the 210 when that was scaled back. Also, the 350, 352, and a lesser extent 358 doesn't reach the same distances as the 355. Wentworth is further east than Torrence and Halsted, but still you don't want to waste a transfer to either route when you're going to end up downtown.

IF this is a matter of 'service duplication' then why doesn't Metra end the UP west line at Oak Park and force everyone to take the CTA green line. It doesn't make sense.

Comparing Apples to Oranges. Would you want to have UPW trains stop at Oak Park, Austin, etc.? Or cause a dis-service to everyone who has to get off at Harlem and take the train downtown?

Also, the Metra SE line study talks about express service or BRT options maybe starting as a precurser to the rail service. So why is an existing express service which can be modified to serve the SE rail markets being cut to only be brought back as a start up service to the Metra rail service?

On a regional planning basis this makes no sense.

SE service won't be set up for years, you have to work with what buses you have. The 7+ buses for that route (including the 2 6900's) can be utilized elsewhere. It costs $1 Million (according to estimates) to run the 355, and that route is plagued with major delays (any SNAFU on the dan ryan and your entire run for the morning or afternoon gets messed up). the 210 didn't suffer dismal delays on LSD (but again, apples to oranges), but from a regional planning view, its more cost-effective.

[MetroShadow]

wasn't there talk about service starting in the fall?

The RFP has been posted, and talk was to have the service begin already, if not later this year.

[west towns]

Comparing Apples to Oranges. Would you want to have UPW trains stop at Oak Park, Austin, etc.? Or cause a dis-service to everyone who has to get off at Harlem and take the train downtown?

Exactly if using the same 'duplication' arguement it doesn't make sense to cut the Metra UP west in Oak Park, same rational as cutting the 355 at the red line. The Metra UP west is not the green line market nor is the 355 the red line market. Can't have it both ways, if 'duplication' is such an issue in this region then what's good for the south side is good for everyone, cut the suburban services at the 1st chance you have at the Chicago border.

this logic is stupid, so why does the 355 get cut based on 'duplication'? Markets should drive the decisions!

SE service won't be set up for years, you have to work with what buses you have. The 7+ buses for that route (including the 2 6900's) can be utilized elsewhere. It costs $1 Million (according to estimates) to run the 355, and that route is plagued with major delays (any SNAFU on the dan ryan and your entire run for the morning or afternoon gets messed up). the 210 didn't suffer dismal delays on LSD (but again, apples to oranges), but from a regional planning view, its more cost-effective.

As for the 355, ridership seems to dictate they continue to use the service despite occasional delays, as the ridership is over 800 rides a day, something must be going right.